I've never been "blinded" by muzzle flash, have you?
- Thread starter JERRYS.
- Start date
Blinded, no. Suffered serious deterioration of my night vision until it recovered, yes.
I have been lucky enough to have had four different no light/low light training courses. I am a great believer in defensive ammo with low flash characteristics, illuminated sights (either tritium or Aimpoint) tactical lights preferably weapon mounted, and flash-hiders on rifles.
Someday I hope to have the cash to experiment with night vision (got to play a little overseas, not much) and suppressors.
I have been lucky enough to have had four different no light/low light training courses. I am a great believer in defensive ammo with low flash characteristics, illuminated sights (either tritium or Aimpoint) tactical lights preferably weapon mounted, and flash-hiders on rifles.
Someday I hope to have the cash to experiment with night vision (got to play a little overseas, not much) and suppressors.
"...night vision still intact..." Shooting with one eye closed? That's an old PBI technique to maintain one's night vision. Shoot with both eyes open and you lose it. Your pupils will retract and you won't see as well.
Doesn't have to be a gun shot either. Works when you get up in the middle of the night to off load that water you drank before you went to bed too.
Doesn't have to be a gun shot either. Works when you get up in the middle of the night to off load that water you drank before you went to bed too.
In The Ten Ring
New member
I am never without my Streamlight Pro Tac......and my J-frame has laser grips for a reason.
Only night shooting I've done with it was from my car, finishing off a suicidal raccoon that had run under my right rear wheel. Blind curve and no room to walk along side the road to finish him off so shooting from the car was all you could do. *Only trees downrange for a few hundred yards.
135 grain +P Gold Dot worked perfectly, put round just behind his left ear. I cannot recall any bad effects from the muzzle flash. I put a second round into the base of his spine to stop the twitching. Time was about 3 AM. (Glad I had ear plugs in the car). Apparently that is "short barrel" ammo.
Product code is 53921 in case anyone is interested.
Only night shooting I've done with it was from my car, finishing off a suicidal raccoon that had run under my right rear wheel. Blind curve and no room to walk along side the road to finish him off so shooting from the car was all you could do. *Only trees downrange for a few hundred yards.
135 grain +P Gold Dot worked perfectly, put round just behind his left ear. I cannot recall any bad effects from the muzzle flash. I put a second round into the base of his spine to stop the twitching. Time was about 3 AM. (Glad I had ear plugs in the car). Apparently that is "short barrel" ammo.
Product code is 53921 in case anyone is interested.
bamaranger
New member
muzzle flash
I've been on quite a few firing lines for reduced light quals, with assorted o firearms depending on the era. BAck when the line was .357/125, that was the worst, and the flash did indeed effect your night vision, but I would not say blinded. One peculiarity was that flash varied from one brand ammo to the next. Less expensive ammo had more and dazzling type flash, higher priced less......usually. The .45 acp, especially with higher grade SD/LE ammo always had lower apparent flash, especially when compared to .357.
On most courses of fire , the first round could be managed with the night sights, or with available light such as from emergency lights. Subsequent rounds were typically fired somewhat from muscle memory with your firing "platform" as close to what you had for the first shot.
Surprisingly to me at first, reduced light shooting scores could often be higher than standard daylight scores. One reason, we did not fire 6 rds from 25 yds, which was the distance many shots got dropped. In reduced light, those 6 rds got incorporated into the 15 yd string prior. The other reason we reckoned, was with the image of the target already blurred with the light issue, folks concentrated on sights and trigger more heavily (they could not easily focus down range on the target) and so working (night) sights and trigger with more mental focus, they shot better.
I've been on quite a few firing lines for reduced light quals, with assorted o firearms depending on the era. BAck when the line was .357/125, that was the worst, and the flash did indeed effect your night vision, but I would not say blinded. One peculiarity was that flash varied from one brand ammo to the next. Less expensive ammo had more and dazzling type flash, higher priced less......usually. The .45 acp, especially with higher grade SD/LE ammo always had lower apparent flash, especially when compared to .357.
On most courses of fire , the first round could be managed with the night sights, or with available light such as from emergency lights. Subsequent rounds were typically fired somewhat from muscle memory with your firing "platform" as close to what you had for the first shot.
Surprisingly to me at first, reduced light shooting scores could often be higher than standard daylight scores. One reason, we did not fire 6 rds from 25 yds, which was the distance many shots got dropped. In reduced light, those 6 rds got incorporated into the 15 yd string prior. The other reason we reckoned, was with the image of the target already blurred with the light issue, folks concentrated on sights and trigger more heavily (they could not easily focus down range on the target) and so working (night) sights and trigger with more mental focus, they shot better.
peacefulgary
New member
Nope, never been blinded by muzzle flash.
Vesuvius Curmudgeon
Inactive
Yes - I know this is a zombie post - but the reason WHY the loss of sight happened was not discussed.
Firing 5-inchers and 8-inchers in the Navy, we were taught that the loss of vision was similar to a flashbulb firing and a bright, white flash reduced the visual purple in the retina, resulting in momentary blindness that will recover when the visual purple replenishes itself. That can take 10 to 15 full minutes sometimes.
When you get flash-blinded - you will often see purple blotches of color in your vision.
About the different flash colors have different effects on vision: did you ever wonder why the nighttime interior of ships are always red-lit?
That's because red does not damage the visual purple and when you are below decks, the shift to being on above-deck watch at night would not be hampered by temporary blindness if the below deck lighting had been white.
So - yes - the visual purple is the problem here and it can take somewhat longer to replenish at higher age levels. Everything either slows down, shrivels up or sags on a body as it ages.
Unlike fine wine and cheese, we do not continue getting better and better as we age.
Sidebar: ever wonder why all those pirates you see in movies got one of their eyes poked out? They all seem to wear an eye patch - which is a typical depiction of a pirate.
Was it sword play that caused the loss of an eye? Was it an act of initiation to become a pirate?
No.
It's because the lower decks of old sailing ships were very badly lighted and going from sunlight above decks to lower, dark decks would make you temporarily blinded.
So ---> wearing a patch on one eye gave you the ability to flip the patch up and be able to see below decks.
Firing 5-inchers and 8-inchers in the Navy, we were taught that the loss of vision was similar to a flashbulb firing and a bright, white flash reduced the visual purple in the retina, resulting in momentary blindness that will recover when the visual purple replenishes itself. That can take 10 to 15 full minutes sometimes.
When you get flash-blinded - you will often see purple blotches of color in your vision.
About the different flash colors have different effects on vision: did you ever wonder why the nighttime interior of ships are always red-lit?
That's because red does not damage the visual purple and when you are below decks, the shift to being on above-deck watch at night would not be hampered by temporary blindness if the below deck lighting had been white.
So - yes - the visual purple is the problem here and it can take somewhat longer to replenish at higher age levels. Everything either slows down, shrivels up or sags on a body as it ages.
Unlike fine wine and cheese, we do not continue getting better and better as we age.
Sidebar: ever wonder why all those pirates you see in movies got one of their eyes poked out? They all seem to wear an eye patch - which is a typical depiction of a pirate.
Was it sword play that caused the loss of an eye? Was it an act of initiation to become a pirate?
No.
It's because the lower decks of old sailing ships were very badly lighted and going from sunlight above decks to lower, dark decks would make you temporarily blinded.
So ---> wearing a patch on one eye gave you the ability to flip the patch up and be able to see below decks.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
You need to test yourself after being in the dark for 30 minutes so has to have full dark adaptation. Just going from full light into the dark isn't a good test.
Try that. You will find the afterimage quite disconcerting for a bit.
Try that. You will find the afterimage quite disconcerting for a bit.
Bright lighting
I have a couple of areas outside of firearms where the eye and it's sensitivity to light come in to play.
Ever look in to an X-ray reading room in a hospital? Prior to reading your images the radiologist will take 5-10 minutes to allow their eyes to adjust. Studies have shown radiologists can discern up to 700 shades of gray in those dark viewing conditions. Average guy in a brightly lit room can discern 30-40 shades of gray.
My other interest is telescopes. A red flashlight helps there. It's a must to keep things dark. Again we must wait for our eyes to adapt to be able to see.
Flash blindness from firearms is similar. In this case your eyes are temporarily overwhelmed.
I have a couple of areas outside of firearms where the eye and it's sensitivity to light come in to play.
Ever look in to an X-ray reading room in a hospital? Prior to reading your images the radiologist will take 5-10 minutes to allow their eyes to adjust. Studies have shown radiologists can discern up to 700 shades of gray in those dark viewing conditions. Average guy in a brightly lit room can discern 30-40 shades of gray.
My other interest is telescopes. A red flashlight helps there. It's a must to keep things dark. Again we must wait for our eyes to adapt to be able to see.
Flash blindness from firearms is similar. In this case your eyes are temporarily overwhelmed.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
As an experiment, I once woke up in the middle of the night - so totally dark adapted. I went into a walk in closet and shut the door so no light at all. I then took a Surefire flashlight and lit up the closet. It was a shock and my eyes slammed closed with an image of pants and shirts.
As we've been saying - depends on your dark adaptation state.
As we've been saying - depends on your dark adaptation state.
Context is everything. Military is one thing, Patrolling the Border in a remote area about the same. I worked as a big city cop too, walking down the street of the average US city there is so much ambient light as to make it irrelevant. Decades of low light/no light training has shown that the issue is largely irrelevant.
TheDevilThatYouKnow
New member
Modern smokeless powder generally includes flash reducing agents. I've lit off full magazines in an M16 series at 0200 and could barely see the flash.
This is not true. Call and ask Federal if there is any flash reducing agents in the powder they use for HST one of their top of the line defense pistol ammos. I will save you the time. The tech will tell they do not use any flash reducing compounds in ANY of the HST line.
What do you mean when you ask whether the muzzle flash "blinded" someone.
If you're asking whether or not the term was used literally; as in the weapon was fired and the person could briefly not see anything at all, then, No, I don't think that's an observed phenomenon.
If you're asking whether or not someone fired a weapon and suffered a sufficient diminution in their night vision as to adversely impact their aim on subsequent shots; yes, regularly. In fact, I don't know anyone who would say otherwise unless they are taking special precautions to avoid it.
armednfree
New member
Yes actually. My GP-100 3" loaded with 125's and H110, like looking into the sun. Little excessive there.
My old Remington 660 in 350 rem mag. Truthfully I don't know if it blinded me or knocked me out. Meanest kicking gun I ever had.
My old Remington 660 in 350 rem mag. Truthfully I don't know if it blinded me or knocked me out. Meanest kicking gun I ever had.
Actually, I temporarily blinded a guy with muzzle blast....
We were aggressing on a REFORGER in Germany in 1981. I was a 60 gunner and in a gun jeep. This guy came charging out of the brush at us hollering. I swung and fired on reflex.... He was lucky, using the blank adapter the gun jammed after the first shot. We loaded him in the jeep and hauled butt to the local German hospital while getting on the radio.
We were aggressing on a REFORGER in Germany in 1981. I was a 60 gunner and in a gun jeep. This guy came charging out of the brush at us hollering. I swung and fired on reflex.... He was lucky, using the blank adapter the gun jammed after the first shot. We loaded him in the jeep and hauled butt to the local German hospital while getting on the radio.
