It's MY property!

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Wow! I see I'm not alone!

Another point for Dr. Lott. As angry as I was with the little worm, he never knew I had a .45 under my shirt. And I never thought of even *showing* it (let alone using it).

Scott, I'm at Canyon Lake but lived in the city for 12 years. Now I've been *here* 12 years. (I like here better! :D )

FUD, for Heaven's sake man! Don't leave us hanging! Did you identify your persecutors? What happened?
 
In the interest of ecology dennis you ought to ask that man if he"d like to help ya run the remains through the shredder..lol....I despise nosey people like that......were Im at now I wanted to put up a overhead for the dogs kennel area and pour a footer for the chainlink kennel and the fence around the property, as well as pouring a 12x20 slab in a portion of the kennel.......I have to get permits for all that....couldnt believe it.....its everywere........fubsy.
 
Sorry everyone -- I had to cut the story short. Boss walked into the room. Turns out I didn't complete something that was due on 5/15. Anyway, to continue ...

I spent the entire day in the court room waiting for my case to come up. My turn final came at about 3:45PM. It turned out that the other side didn't show up (I guess they didn't want to be seen) which means that I won by default. Six weeks have gone by and I thought that the matter was done with when I received a letter from a lawyer representing the association demanding payment of the $1000 fine alone with a $82 late charge.

I wrote back saying that I won the court case and that I do not owe them anything. The lawyer wrote back that I was is "direct violation of the written by-laws" for failing to clean the sidewalk and that he would see me in court. I wrote back saying that I already cleaned the sidewalk but since they still consider it to be dirty, they obviously didn't properly explain what needs to be cleaned and I can't clean it unless they show me exactly what they want cleaned.

About three weeks later a series of 8 photos arrived with the areas in question circled. I then went ahead and cleaned those areas.

-- Sorry for the long post but you asked for it.
 
Okay! That's a relief. I was afraid we'd have to bring ya cigarettes in the Big House!

At least our POA members are elected from our subdivision. But, since nobody wants the job, we get the same ole retirees over and over.

The good news is that one of them called me tonight and apologized.

You could have picked me up with an ink blotter.

We discussed the tree, ambulance access, etc. and, apparently everything's gonna be all right!

I did mention that the worm had better stay away from me, my property, my family and my possessions unless he has a police officer with him. Or I'll unplug parts of his body like Pop-it beads. It was so agreed.

Case (apparently) closed.

Now how do I get rid of all those branches and stuff? Hmmmm. Well, the kids all have trucks so.....
 
Dennis,
Why don't you take all those branches and stuff and have a nice bonfire? You could invite the POA members over for hot dogs and marshmellows just to show there's no hard feelin's. I'm sure they would love it. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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TFL's official "Curmudgeon Member" and damned proud of it!
 
Hey speaking of pproperty rights, I beleive there is a suburb in chicgao the doesn't allow pickup trucks parked in the driveway of your home. How about that one!
 
I also have a Nazi-esque HOA in my neighborhood. They also have their fines, inflated dues, which they used to unsuccessfully sue a nearby landfill for it's expansion--"let me fill up two dumpsters twice a week, but heaven forbid it should be dumped anywhere within 100 miles of my 3000+ sq. ft. house..."

Anyway, I paid my house off last summer. Do they really have any leverage on me now? How valid is my argument to them that if they use their little rules to hold up the sale of my home, they'll be stuck with me instead of someone who might actually pay attention to their socialist agenda?

Where's that website, Jay?
 
Grayfox,
We're under a burn ban because of no rain. I'll have the kids haul it all to the dump.

(A couple six-packs of Shiner should do it! :D )

Besides, I keep thinking how that little worm would sizzle... ;)
 
Ok, guys, here's a few pointers about dealing with your POAs, COAs, or HOAs. This comes directly from the Vice President of my HOA, who is, well, ME.

First and foremost remember one thing. You bought the house in the first place, and chances are those restrictions were on it to begin with. In most, if not all states (I'm in Virginia), prospective owners MUST, by law, be given a copy of all POA/HOA/COA covenants, restrictions, and rules.

If you didn't bother reading them before you signed on the dotted line, caveat emptor, and you brought the problem on yourself. That's about 90% of the trouble I have to deal with in my community.

In many many cases, and in many states, HOAs (I'm going to use that term collectively for all POAs, COAs, and HOAs) have the same kind of power as a political subdivision, a town, village, etc.

In other words, a town or city can, through zoning restrictions, control what kind of addition you build, how big it is, or where it is located on your property. So can the HOA.

A town or city (but most often a county or state) can also deny you the ability to cut trees on your property. So can the HOA.

And etc. etc. etc.

Once again, all of this should be laid out in your covenants. If it's NOT, it can be a very gray area as to whether a restriction is enforcable or not.

Depending on how the property deed is written, you may actually NOT own the land in front of and behind your home. In some cases you only own the physical structure. Check your deed.

Finally, if you don't like how your HOA is being run (and I will absolutely agree with you that there are many that are VERY Nazi-ish in how they are run), run for the board of directors.

I've been involved in two cases in which I have been threatened with physical injury. One was over the towing of a car that was blocking a fire lane, another was over a member's ire that the 26" of snow that hit our area hadn't been plowed the moment it stopped snowing. He didn't seem to get the fact that even if our community was plowed, he wasn't going to be going anywhere because it took the state nearly 3 days to get a plow down our street!

In both cases had the individual accosted me, they would have been VERY surprised at what was under my left arm.
 
Dennis -- way to go!!

Just letting you know the morons are the same even on the other side of the earth!

In my council (sort of equivalent to a county, I guess), we're only allowed a maximum of two cars on our own driveway; we can't park our car on our own front lawn with a "For sale" sign on it; we can't park on our driveway between the property line and the roadway (i.e. the verge), except for visitors; burning leaves or rubbish on your own property is permanently banned ...


... See? An a$$hole is an @rsehole no matter where in the world you are :D

B
 
Dennis,

I don't want to be the heavy, but I agree with Mr. Irwin's analysis. To help get perspective, let's look at things from another angle. Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions ("CC&Rs") are essentially contracts between the members of a neighborhood governing the maintenance and use of each person's property. You probably received a copy of the CC&Rs when a title report was run on the property prior to your purchase, because CC&Rs are usually established by a developer at the time a development is built and recorded in the county records so that it appears in the chain of title for each of the properties within the effected neighborhood.

As nasty as the little worm sounds (and it sounds like he has some Napoleanic issues to work out with a therapist), in principle I can sympathize with his position, as I'm sure you can in the abstract. Suppose you have a contract with someone to do something specific and it turns out that they didn't do it right. You would probably be disappointed with his or her poor performance. You would probably even convey your displeasure to the other party. Of course, Dennis, you wouldn't convey your displeasure in the ridiculous manner your HOA rep did, but maybe you can see where he was coming from in principle. I imagine that as an HOA rep, he has some inflated sense of self-importance, and when neighbors don't abide by the letter of the CC&Rs it really chaps his hide, so he gets all bent out of shape. Plus it sounds like he was being a real a$$hole, not to mention a moron, for trying to provoke a gunowner to violence.

As someone who feels righteous when other people wrong me, I can understand somewhat the position of the little worm. I do not condone in the slightest his diplomacy, or lack thereof, in handling the situation. Now I'm just rambling. Sorry for going on and on.

To summarize, I agree with everyone's sentiments that HOAs are going overboard with restrictions, but at the same time, we have a choice to not purchase homes in neighborhoods that are subject to CC&Rs. Of course I can't even afford to buy a home yet (because I'm taxed too heavily), but that's a story for another day.
 
These are all good reasons not to live in suburbia. :D Nobody tries to make us urban people sign covenants.
(folkbabe, not studying and/or sleeping for her exams like she should be)
 
One of my aunts lives in a subdivision that doesn't allow overnight parking in the driveway. Too bad that they bought the house BEFORE the covenants were drawn up, so they are unenforcible.
Eric

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Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
 
This thread reminds me of that X-files episode where the 'neighborhood' has all these crazy rules. The light bulbs in front must be changed immediately, no lawn ornaments, everyone's house looked exactly the same. If you didn't comply the mud guy killed you. Dennis, watch out for the mud guy ;).

Hoosierboy, you can't park vans or pick ups in your driveway if it has a business printed somewhere on the vehicle. If you don't have a garage or don't use your garage, you can't bring your vehicle home. :rolleyes: Isn't that crazy?

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I agree that we SHOULD have been aware of these restrictions prior to buying the house. However, in my particular case, I was looking for a home in a nice area that was around the same size as our previous home and since we were moving to southern Florida, an area that wasn't prone to flooding was a BIG concern.

After deciding on the house and looking over the fact sheet, I inquired of the real estate agent about this "homeowner association thing" -- I have always owned my home outright (along with the bank) and I knew nothing about associations. The agent responded that it was just all the homeowners working as a team. Monthly dues are collected and that money is used to maintain the sidewalks (funny that I had to clean my own sidewalk), the various common areas, etc.; and certain by-laws had to be followed.

The agent made it sound that all of this was reasonable and she made it sound like it was no big deal and I didn't know better either -- I guess I SHOULD have. On the day of closing, along with the keys, I was handed a nearly 200 page booklet with rules and regulations AFTER we signed all of the closing papers and the moeny changed hands.

Flipping through it, I said to my wife "what the f___ is this s___". Like the suburb in Chicago, I can't have a pick-up truck parked in my OWN driveway. My wife's cousin's husband came over and we went shooting. I drove and he left his pick-up truck parked in our driveway. A couple of days later I get a photo in the mail of the pick-up truck parked in my drive-way -- the photo was taken so that my house ccould be identified and the photo had a time/date stamp in the corner. Along with the photo was a $68 fine for having a pick-up truck parked in my driveway.

If I had the time and space on the server wasn't a problem, I would type in all the regulations so that everyone could get a good laugh. But let me eend this this with this ... I can not display an American Flag (which I was in the habit of doing on national holidays) on my property. I can display a flag with butterflies & flowers on it but not an American flag or any national or state flag.

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fudeagle.gif
 
FUD, if I was you I would get a good lawyer, put up a flagpole and fly the flag every day, tear up the fine for the pickup, and sue the real estate company for non disclosure of the associations rules before you bought the house.

Sue them enough and you may bankrupt the association, win and the entire association may have to pay you.

Another thing, set up a video camera to scan your front lawn, if any member of the association confronts you you will have a video record to take to court. Please remember to smile while you tell him to buzz off.

Geoff Ross

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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.

It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!
 
Fud,

Unfortunatly, it sounds like you bought into one of the nasty Nazi subdivisions. It also sounds like you got a royal screwing on the covenants book.

Check state law, the way you were given the disclosures on the community regulations MAY have violated state law. If that is the case, depending on how long ago you purchased, you could possibly sue, althought it would break down into a lot of "he said/she said" type of crap, and would likely just annoy you, and cost you a lot of money.

When I bought my house, I was given a disclosure packet up front with all of the community documents (articles of incorporation, rules & regs, etc.) The entire packet was fewer than 100 pages, and only about 20 pages were the rules.

It also sounds like you have a professional management company with an enforcement officer. That's complete crap, as far as I'm concerned.

Your best bet is to run for the board of directors in your community. You can do a lot more from the inside than the outside. But, you need to have community support. If everyone is happy with the way things are being run, you'll be seen as a person with an ax to grind.

As an interim measure, check out your state's HOA disclosure laws, and start exercising your right to see the Associations documentation & files.

A few years ago here in Virginia a woman took her HOA to court over their refusal to let her see the documents, direct violation of state law. She finally sued and got a court order. What she saw made her got to state regulators. They called in an auditor, and ended up arresting the entire board for embezellment! Over $500,000 in 20 years. During that entire time not a single homeowner had asked to see the documents, or had taken much interest in the association. They just paid their money, and let the same board members effectively serve for life, and bleed the association dry.
 
K80,

Remember, if FUD sues the association, he is essentially suing himself because he is a member of the association. That must ALWAYS be taken into consideration, because the courts certainly will.

If he "bankrupts" his association, and the association has to pass a special levy to remain solvent, he'll be responsible for that levy!

Last, if he sues the assocaition, he's got to live with his neighbors. I've seen more than one instance where such an action has turned a family into a community parriah.

All of those things have to be weighed before filing suit, and in this case it would likely be VERY difficult to win.
 
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