It's MY property!

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Dennis

Staff Emeritus
Yesterday I was reprimanded for cutting down a tree in my yard. The
representative from the Property Owners’ Association threatened to have me
arrested by the local Constable and also to sue me in court. Then he addressed my possession of guns. I lost it, folks! :mad:

My exact response to that functionary dare not be entered on TFL. I also
suspect my suggestion to him would be physically impossible (even for him) to
implement.

Pondering the government’s inclination to support such infringements on my
own property, upon which I must pay the various governments annual rent
(property tax), the following came to mind.
-------

Trees for Sarge, Trees for Use*

I’m Forest Grump, I say “Thank you” and “Please”.
I live in the Forest, among critters and trees.
And government men, and women come ‘round,
Saying which trees, to keep or chop down.

These government people are rousing my ire,
By telling me what I can burn in my fire.
But I notice not one of them is so bold,
As to visit me when the weather turns cold!

So I live in the Forest and they call me a grump.
I’ll cut trees as I wish, and if they see the stump,
Let them tell me then I can’t cut what I see.
Let them government folks restore each missing tree.

And I’ll use trees for housing, for warmth and to cook.
The forest tells more than they’ll learn from their book.
As long as I’m careful and use just what I need,
I don’t use trees as fast, as they grow from their seed.

Perhaps Sergeant Joyce Kilmer was speaking of me,
When he said “poems are made by fools like me”.
But there’s more to “Trees” than the governments see,
For it’s God and not governments who CAN make a tree.

Government people give orders and leave.
And there’s not a one, whom I trust or believe.
I’ll use my own judgement, create more than I use
And I won’t be a victim of government abuse.

Let them say what I CAN do, and say what I can’t.
I don’t pay much attention when governments rant.
But there surely is one thing they better believe,
If they come for my gun, they’ll be dead when they leave.

-- Forest Grump
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U. S. Army Sergeant Alfred Joyce Kilmer (1886-1918) was killed in action in
World War I in the second battle of the Marne. He is best known for the
sentimental poem “Trees” which, set to music, quite possibly had a wider
audience than any other modern American poem.
http://www.hourigan.com/~69thny/newpage5.htm
http://www.bemorecreative.com/one/1483.htm
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.com/kilmer.htm

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
I understand your frustration. But there are three separate issues you have raised.

1. Property tax. Yes, I agree if it's yours, it's yours period, and you ought not be taxed. BUT, the gov't DOES in fact have the power to so tax, unfortunately, and you knew that when you bought the place.

2. Civil lawsuit by the homeowner's association. If the association is valid, and has such a legal right, it's because it is on your deed, was on there when you bought the house, and YOU AGREED to buy a house with those restrictions on the deed. You consented to their power. If you don't like it, don't buy a house with that those covenants/restrictions on the deed. This is what the law would say, anyway. [Added: All this assumes you actually violated the covenants in question. You may not have.]

3. Having the constable arrest you. I'm glad you told him to shove it on this one, because it's not a crime, and no LEO should be the least bit involved in this civil situation. Just for this one threat, he deserved everything you dished out, IMO.

Nice poem, though!

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited May 18, 2000).]
 
Dennis:

Amen!

You live here in/around San Antonio also, correct? A few years ago I was cited by Code Compliance for having my car in the driveway of my parent's home, with a current registration and inspection, while my father and I were rebuilding the engine. There were no visible signs that it was inoperable.

I couldn't afford a better vehicle, or market-rate mechanic work, and I had to go through all the additional hassle because a nosy neighbor/homeowners' association didn't care for how my car was parked. :mad:

Yet there are parts of town where people park cars on blocks in the street with impunity!

My father has since had similar issues with his truck. All this, and I work for the City. I've seen things that make my blood curdle, and I don't think I can take much more.

In the words of someone I shouldn't be quoting: "I feel your pain."

SA Scott
 
Dennis, if you had known that was gonna happen, you could've sold tickets. :D

Tell ya what, if some limpd!ck little tinweasel pencilneck came strutting into MY yard and started making snide comments about MY guns, I wouldn't bother talking. Just grab him by the belt and collar and heave-ho his narrow arse the hell of MY land.

But that's just me. ;)
 
Dennis, Why would he mention anything about your guns if he was there complaining about the tree? I'm not sure how your laws are there but here I have two big trees in my yard, they are both mine and I can cut them down if I like. Nothing more annoying than paying all that property tax and then having someone telling you what you can and can not do. We had a patio put in last summer, we wanted it a certain width but according to the RULES it was only allowed so many feet wide. The way I look at it, it is MY property, I will be spending time on MY patio not them! THe same would go for your tree, if it is on YOUR property and you chose not to have it there, that should be YOUR choice. But like I said perhaps it is different there in Texas. I'm sorry you had to deal with such ignorant people like that.

Amen to the poem!

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RKBA forums
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
Join us at the TFL meet August 12&13
 
Such stories as Dennis' are across the Republic from sea to shining sea. And worse getting worse. The question remains are we going to wait until they come after me?

As for the retort on taxes, yes government does have the power to tax but it does not have the constitutional authority to tax for purposes outside of the Constitution. For a fact none of our governments were created, nor is their purpose, to use a tax code to manipulate citizens, business and industry.

Our governments are wild monsters roaming world wide far outside of the Law (Constitution). It is our duty in citizenship to force government, the elected, to obey our Law. Voting third party come November will be a step in the correct direction.
 
Futo Inu,

Would you be willing to tell us how property taxes really are legal? Are they connected to the 16th amendment?

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 
Dennis,
Clearly that tree was diseased, and had to be removed. It had bugs in it and the leaves kept falling off. I can see that from here. ;)

Perhaps we should hit Texas Parks and Wildlife up for a few Rampant Moron tags to be included on next years Hunting License. The herds gettin quite thick, and needs to be thinned out.
 
Not only was the tree diseased, but the problem was communicable and you cut down the tree to spare the problem from spreading to other trees, especially those of your neighbors. I am glad to see that you acted responsibly and tried to protect the fellow members of your neighborhood association - with whom you wholeheartedly agree on such issues as maintaining appearances of yards. Your work should be applauded. You have save a lot of people a lot of strife.
 
Oh absolutely, why one diseased or insect ridden tree could wipe out an entire forest! Just think of the damage to the entire ecosystem. Why, they should give you a medal for saving their trees!

BTW: I'm in full agreement with Coinneach.

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TFL's official "Curmudgeon Member" and damned proud of it!
 
Dennis,
This is the reason why I refuse to move into a neighborhood with a "neighborhood association". Some associations restrict what improvements or additions that can be made to the property as well. They limit choise as to what kind of fence can be installed, kennel, pool, what color you can paint your house, what kind of shingles for the roof etc... They can't arrest you for cutting down a tree, can they?
Arrell

[This message has been edited by Arrell (edited May 18, 2000).]
 
Dennis,

Nice poem. Too bad about your diseased tree. You know, those things fall down sometimes and hurt kids. I bet you were figuring you'd do it "for the children." ;)

Ditto on the remarks about not living where there's a homeowner's association if you can help it. City governments are bad enough.
 
Wow! Thank you for your support!

1. Property taxes upset me. They punish the good and reward the bad.

Two people buy identical houses. The first house is clean and well-maintain. The other house is dirty and not maintained. The clean, maintained house is worth more so that owner must pay more tax! Current law encourages sloth and filth, and fines responsibility.

2. My property restrictions say, "No removal of trees or excavation of any materials other than for landscaping, construction of buildings, driveways, etc., will be permitted without the written permission of the Architectural Control Committee."

My 88 y/o Mother is not well. The local ambulance can not enter my driveway because of the low trees. I took one down and was trimming the rest when li'l Hitler jumped me.

3. POA snot told me I can't cut down the tree. It was already down. I explained about the ambulance. He insisted I had to ask the committee for written permission.

- I told him to put the tree back up, if he liked. (the humorless worm didn't get it.)

- When I had enough of his tripe, I told him to take me to court but get out of my yard. I told him three times to leave, that he was trespassing.

- He refused to leave and tried to make me threaten him by asking repeatedly if I was going to shoot him. (He's anti-gun. I'm a known CHL Instructor. This battle goes back a long way...) I responded I didn't need a gun to hold him for the Sheriff.

- I directed him to perform a certain difficult gymnastic maneuver and ordered him off my land. (Silly of me! Nobody could walk while transporting a tree in the manner I suggested. ;) )

- We exchanged insults. I demanded that he correspond with me ONLY in writing. He left. I went inside called the Sheriff's office to report the incident, explained the flea had left under his own meager power, and promised a letter to the Sheriff. (Mailed by certified mail, return receipt requested this morning.)

It will be on file that he verbally abused me, refused to leave my property, threatened to have me arrested for a civil matter, said he would take me to court, and frightened me sooo seriously that I had to consult the Sheriff.

I am soooo afraid he might return. Why there's just no telling what that "madman" might do! Oh, MY! :eek: I'm SO glad I documented my terror immediately!

[Interestingly enough, I first spoke (by phone) with a Deputy who has known me for 8-10 years. Once he ascertained no violence was involved, he seemed to suffer an odd attack of giggling. Hmm. VERY unprofessional, indeed! And why did he put me on the speakerphone? Hmmm. ;)]
 
Dennis, I with you on this one. I got a notice in the mail that my sidewalk was dirty. I called the number listed and asked what they meant by it. They told me that there were certain spots that needed to be cleaned. Looking around I didn't see any difference between my sidewalk and that of others so I asked them to come over and point out exactly what they meant. They said that they couldn't do that because then I would know who they are. I asked them how do they expect me to correct the problem if they are not willing to show me. I didn't get a response.

A month later I received another letter saying that I was being fined $100 a day until the problem was corrected. At the $1000 mark, I was brought into court.
 
You would think that once word got out about the guy here in Arizona killing two "association members" last month, that associations might start to wonder if it's such a good idea to torque people off, but like IRS agents of a few years ago who watched their fellow agents get killed in their offices, they continue on with their cause.

I don't know the web address, but there is an organization that helps people fight their associations.

If I find it, I'll post it.

Jay
Arizona
 
The town I used to live in required a permit to take down any tree over six INCHES in diameter. Recently, a sub contracter doing some work for my dad took down about six 20 ft poplars to make way for a small access road to an onsite trash dump. Somehow, the city found out(probably a neigbor, the city encourages reporting all violations of any city code, no matter how minor, this includes expired liscense plates and tax stickers). They proceded to threaten to sue the club my dad works for, dispatch a city engineer to tell them that they needed 150yds of silt fence to make up for these six trees and subsequently DENIED the permit aplication once the trees were already down. They then tried to blackmail the club into giving them an easment they had wanted. I fortunately moved out of there about a year ago. We can now take down any tree we want to on 32 acres :). Homeowners association presidents all seem to be miserable underachivers with delusions of granduer and socialist fantasies.
PK
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I told him to put the tree back up, if he liked.[/quote]

ROTFLMAO! You should have at least had the decency to hand him a tube of super glue :D
Stick it to 'em ;)

I wish you best of luck and will count my lucky stars that my neighborhood is not affliated with one of these organizations.
 
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