It's a freakin' bookshelf!!

[lg_mouth]

Covert

Well, here is a definition of covert

"not openly shown, engaged in, or avowed"

So, being overt tends to help in a debate such as this. Being covert tends to cover up one's inability to argue a point. They just use generalizations such as your accusation I twisted comments. I have not twisted any comments, as anyone can see by rereading the entire post.

You are throwing Huckabee under the bus because he used the word pardon instead of commute. I asked for further problems with his character and all you could give me was that he used pardon instead of commute. Seems like a weak argument, unless you are telling me that you have never misspoke in your life.

Also, you stated Huckabee was my hero, which I never said. So, if you want to throw around twisting things, you may want to take a look at yourself.

I will back Huckabee until someone can prove he is disingenuous.

Lg_mouth

 

[allenomics]

Please know that every single detail is intentional in a commercial; set pieces/props, angles, make up, focal length/depth of field, edit fades/cuts, volume, lighting, etc. It surprises me that Huckabee says the cross/plus sign was not part of the spot, with a straight face. Perhaps the spot's producer and crew and post-production staff just didn't tell him about the storyboard or their plans?

 

[buzz_knox]

Please know that every single detail is intentional in a commercial; set pieces/props, angles, make up, focal length/depth of field, edit fades/cuts, volume, lighting, etc. It surprises me that Huckabee says the cross/plus sign was not part of the spot, with a straight face.

There are plenty of examples of inadvertent humor or errors in commercials (whether in print or TV) to make the story plausible. Or do you think HK intentionally put the rounds backwards in a pistol magazine for one of their USP ads?

 

[WeedWacker]

Dude, a cross is part of the symbolism of CHRISTmas. Why is it such a surprise when a MINISTER has a cross likeness behind him in an ad where he says "merry CHRISTmas"? It's part of the theme.

 

[Thunderhawk88]

given the Christmas tree, the Silent Night the article said was playing, and the "Merry Christmas" going on there, I'd give good odds that the cross imagery was intentional.

I am sure it was planned that way. There are folks paid big money to arrange everything in a commercial like that. And though I'm not a Huckabee supporter......who cares?

 

[ForksLaPush]

The most interesting comment on the "floating cross" non-issue came from, not surprsingly, Ron Paul, "If facism comes to this country, it will come wrapped in the flag and bearing a cross." This is the man who thinks islomofacism is not a threat. Amazing.

 

[FirstFreedom]

a) regarding the ad

b) regarding its being attacked for the cross imagery (not addressing here the ad being attacked for any other reason):

This is asinine, for this reason - it is utterly irrelevant whether it was intentional or not, given that the central tenet of his message was to admonish us to "CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST". So if it was unintentional (maybe it was - I'll take him at his word that it was unintentional - why would he lie about that?) - then so much the better - if the watcher so infers a Christian message, then hello! That is exactly what the message IS - a Christian message (non-Judeo, non-Muslim, non-Buddhist CHRISTIAN message). If, OTOH, it was intentional, then again, so what? It makes perfect sense in the context of a Christian message. The fact that it's an equilateral cross rather than a rectangular cross, as the Biblical cross of crucifixion at Calvary was, makes me believe that it was unintentional.

 

[joab]

Why is it such a surprise when a MINISTER has a cross likeness behind him in an ad where he says "merry CHRISTmas"?

The only surprising thing is that he would do it and them claim he did not do it, but then he does a few things and then claims he didn't
And Christmas has nothing to do with Christ, Americans only pretend it does. Just another example of "tell a lie often enough, it becomes truth"

Being covert tends to cover up one's inability to argue a point. They just use generalizations such as your accusation I twisted comments. I have not twisted any comments, as anyone can see by rereading the entire post.

I presented your twist and I am sorry things have to be spelled out for you
It never occurred to me that when I made a comment on your twisting directly after comments about Huckabees twisting that the reference would be lost on you
I'll type slower for you next time

You are throwing Huckabee under the bus because he used the word pardon instead of commute.

And here you go again
Just so you know that was a reference to word twisting
I threw no one under the bus I simply said that it cause a loss of credibility with me

I asked for further problems with his character and all you could give me was that he used pardon instead of commute. Seems like a weak argument, unless you are telling me that you have never misspoke in your life.

OK how's this
He is a habitual liar
After finding him less than honest with his use of terms and phrases to paint his opponents a certain way I did a few seconds of research

He has a habit of lying
Like advocating quarantining AIDS patients and then saying he never said that

Like saying that his opponents act like third graders and then saying he didn't say that

Like claiming that there was no evidence at the time that a serial rapist that he championed for early release and who went on to rape and murder another woman presented a threat to society when there were numerous documented red flags that he tried to bury after wards

Like claiming to have a Theology degree when he does not

I will back Huckabee until someone can prove he is disingenuous.

So, who're you gonna back now

Also, you stated Huckabee was my hero, which I never said.

Your reaction to my questioning his integrity said much more than you did

 

[STAGE 2]

Anybody see where Paul called Huckabee a fascist regarding this incident.

 

[WeedWacker]

And Christmas has nothing to do with Christ, Americans only pretend it does. Just another example of "tell a lie often enough, it becomes truth"

From: http://www.history.com/minisite.do?...play_order=1&sub_display_order=2&mini_id=1290

In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger.

By holding Christmas at the same time as traditional winter solstice festivals, church leaders increased the chances that Christmas would be popularly embraced, but gave up the ability to dictate how it was celebrated. By the Middle Ages, Christianity had, for the most part, replaced pagan religion. On Christmas, believers attended church, then celebrated raucously in a drunken, carnival-like atmosphere similar to today's Mardi Gras. Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. The poor would go to the houses of the rich and demand their best food and drink. If owners failed to comply, their visitors would most likely terrorize them with mischief. Christmas became the time of year when the upper classes could repay their real or imagined "debt" to society by entertaining less fortunate citizens.

Nobody knows the BoC so the time was convenient. IIRC a special MASS was held by the then predominantly Catholic churches in an effort, as stated above, to get more people to come to church. Since, if you look at earlier parts of the page, people were killing off cattle to prevent having to feed them during the winter and the beer was just getting good, there were huge parties during the middle of winter which was a tradition. One way to look at it is it's another way of aknowledging God for his graciousness and basically letting us survive another year. If you don't like it that way just see it as a wonderful time of getting stuff (heck that's what most of us used to see it as when we were kids)

 

[Molson]

Anybody see where Paul called Huckabee a fascist regarding this incident.

good lord. i have responded to this 2 times already on this and another board, so i will just copy/paste my response here:

it seems you missed the fact that he was quoting sinclair lewis and then he, almost immediately, says that he doesnt know if thats an accurate statement (not to mention that paul is a christian himself).

and ill ask: what is so wrong about that statement? i havent gone to sunday school or taken a class on the bible in awhile, but i think i remember the bible saying something about the anti christ claiming to be a christian, or being well versed in biblical text which will be how he manages to fool the general public and assume power. id say that if its valid enough for the bible, then its valid enough for ron paul. (note: in no way am i relating huckabee to the anti christ, merely comparing pauls quoted statement with text in the bible)

ill also add: anyone who even remotely considers him or herself to be a critical thinker will realize that paul was not calling huckabee a fascist as that moron anchor did. he was using a quote to make a point. that point being: just because you claim to be good christian american, does not make your positions any less anti constitution/framers intent. i cant believe i have to spell this out for people...

as far as the bookshelf goes, if you dont think the lighting was set up just right to insinuate that it was a cross, then you havent taken any design classes. nothing is coincedental. when you consider that huckabee is milking the evangelical christian thing for all its worth, this was no coincendence.

 

[STAGE 2]

I know who he was quoting, and the implication is that Huckabee is a fascist all because he put out a christmas ad. Apparently Paul thinks if people include a cross in an ad (you know, the thing that represents the guy on which the entire season of christmas is based on) you're a fascist.

Even if the cross/bookshelf was intentional whats the big deal. They guy is a freakin minister.

 

[homefires]

AND? Clinton and his wife Pardoned Coke Dealers and others ! Seems People forgot about that one! Money Is Money!:barf:

Did you ever see her wearing her chines outfit? Most appropiate!

 

[Thunderhawk88]

And Christmas has nothing to do with Christ, Americans only pretend it does. Just another example of "tell a lie often enough, it becomes truth"

Now THAT is amazing. I have been all over this wonderful world and many, many countries celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas!

BTW, I really like his commercial.

 

[joab]

Now THAT is amazing. I have been all over this wonderful world and many, many countries celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas!

The places I have been overseas do not
I can't speak to what motivates the people of countries I have never been to

But I guess they are allowed to participate in the lie as well as Americans

Personally I don't feel the need to make excuses for participating in the holidays as some others seem to

Any small amount of research will tell you that "Jesus is the reason for the season" is nothing more than urban myth

 

[ForksLaPush]

I know who he was quoting, and the implication is that Huckabee is a fascist all because he put out a christmas ad. Apparently Paul thinks if people include a cross in an ad (you know, the thing that represents the guy on which the entire season of christmas is based on) you're a fascist.

I agree. That was the implication I got.

To quote an authority on critical thinking, "nothing is accidental".

 

[WeedWacker]

I posted a linke about that whole story of christmas joab. Look ^^^^^

Here it is for you again


http://www.history.com/minisite.do?c...2&mini_id=1290


And look at my post

 

[SecDef]

The cross imagery doesn't matter... a christmas without Santa is blasphemy!

 

[Molson]

To quote an authority on critical thinking, "nothing is accidental".

lol talk about irony. the statement, "anyone who even remotely considers him or herself to be a critical thinker will realize," was a word for word quote from the person i was disagreeing with. btw, i said "coincidental" not "accidental". and it was in reference to design. i hope to never see you complain about liberals or the media or anyone else taking things out of context or spinning a story. ye without sin, and all that.

I know who he was quoting, and the implication is that Huckabee is a fascist all because he put out a christmas ad. Apparently Paul thinks if people include a cross in an ad (you know, the thing that represents the guy on which the entire season of christmas is based on) you're a fascist.

lol, no it wasnt. he did an interview with neil cavuto today, and said pretty much exactly what i told you that statement meant, when asked about the cheesy christmas ads everyone is putting out. the exact text of a quote does not always match the situation that the concept or main idea of the quote does. you are apparently unable or unwilling to separate the details of the quote from the actual point of the quote. the point, once again, being, that just because someone claims to be mr christian conservative, does not mean that they actually are both or either of those things. in huckabees case, hes trying to hide the fact that he is not a conservative with the fact that he is a christian.

to expand on the whole bookshelf/cross thing, i do think that it was supposed to insinuate the appearance of a cross; the lighting that made it so prominent is hard to ignore or not notice, especially if they had a professional production team (which i would have a hard time believing they didnt as the quality of the commercial was very good, imo). the cross part doesnt bother me, though. the possibility (i think its more than a possibility, but ill try to remain objective) that it was intentional and he didnt just come out and put a cross in the background is what bothers me. hes playing "slick willy" style games with our country, and i dont like it. if i didnt have such a huge problem with his deceptions already, i wouldnt have cared much either way.

 

[STAGE 2]

lol, no it wasnt. he did an interview with neil cavuto today, and said pretty much exactly what i told you that statement meant, when asked about the cheesy christmas ads everyone is putting out. the exact text of a quote does not always match the situation that the concept or main idea of the quote does. you are apparently unable or unwilling to separate the details of the quote from the actual point of the quote. the point, once again, being, that just because someone claims to be mr christian conservative, does not mean that they actually are both or either of those things. in huckabees case, hes trying to hide the fact that he is not a conservative with the fact that he is a christian.

You're right. I'm not willing to give Paul yet another pass. When all the hullabaloo is about a bookshelf/cross, and Paul gives a quote about how fascists will try and take over using the cross wrapped in a flag, how else am I supposed to interpret it.

Either I'm right and Paul thinks Huckabee is a fascist because he may haev incorporated a cross into a christmas ad, or you're right and Paul has yet again demonstrated his propensity to stick his foot in his mouth.

First he didn't mean that the US was responsible for 9/11.
Then he didn't mean it when he compared ed brown to ghandi.
Now he doesn't mean it when he calls Huckabee a fascist.

Its a good thing you guys are here because if I didn't have you to translate I'd be lost