It happened to me.

Ronny

New member
It's been several months since this happened and haven't heard anything back from the police department, so I think I can finally tell others about it.

Fall of last year, Tampa FL:
After the evening Worship service I drove to my friend's apartment who had invited me over for dinner. She lived with her boyfriend in a two-story town house near the projects. After parking just in front of their building I noticed that the blinds in the second-story window of the adjacent apartment were shaking violently. They would shake then abruptly stop, then shake again. I ignored it, put on my coat, closed my car door and started walking to the door.

Suddenly, the blinds were torn down completely and the window shunted open throwing the screen out on the pavement below. Out comes a screaming woman in torn clothing leaping from the second story window and falling into the hedges. She recovered quickly and began running towards me screaming for help.

My hand goes to my phone and as I'm dialing 911 a large, shirtless man bursts through the door of the woman's apartment. He sees her, looks at me, and runs toward us.

Quickly, I scramble back to my car while the woman takes off down the parking lot. He chases her, pins her to the hood of a truck and starts punching her repeated in the face.

I'm talking to the operator over the phone at this point telling them my location and the situation while I run over to my friend's door and bang on it. My friend opens the door, sees what's happening, and runs inside to get her boyfriend. He comes to me, knife in hand and says, "Let's get this f**ker."

I hand my phone to his girlfriend, push them both back inside the apartment and yell to the man that we are calling the police.

"We are calling the police -- stop what you are doing!"

The woman is bleeding profusely all over her face. The man stops beating her long enough to make eye contact with me. He's easily my superior in stature -- about 300lbs, over 6 feet in height. He gives her one more punch that sends her sprawling over the hood and on the ground and starts walking towards me.

"Don't bring the police into this!" he yells at me.

My friend's boyfriend is egging him on at this point with is knife -- so I push him back into the apartment. His girlfriend is hiding behind the refrigerator. Once we were all inside, I drew my weapon.

The man came right up to the door, stopped when he saw me aiming for his head and started badmouthing again.

"What, you gonna shoot me muthafu*ka?! Do it!"

I said firmly, "Don't come any closer or I WILL shoot you."

There was an awkward lull -- neither of us making a move or saying anything. Then he thinks better of it. He curses at us some more, runs to his car and peels out. My friend, her boyfriend and I take the woman he was beating into the apartment, put a blanket over her and wait for the police.

When they finally arrived some 8 minutes later (I timed it), I told them everything, wrote a statement, showed them my weapon and my permit. It turns out the woman was being sexually assaulted when she finally overcame her attacker long enough to leap out of a window. Who would have thought something like this would have been happening right next door to where we were going to have dinner. And if she didn't overcome him, we'd have only found out in the evening news the next day.

It's been more than 6 months since this has happened, and I've had a lot of time to think about it. Never heard from the police about it ever again. I don't have a blog of my own, and I don't have people shooting at me all the time like Sir William.

All I know is I am a civilian; a lawful citizen of the United States. And no law abiding citizen should have to wait 8 minutes for help to arrive. Nothing against the local PD, but I thank the Lord every day that I have a means to protect myself and my family always.

Oh, and the woman -- I never got her name. She didn't even thank me she was in so much shock. But I'm sure wherever she's goes, I'm sure she thinks about "that guy in the dark grey suit with a cellphone and a gun" once in a while.

I've tried to stick with just telling it how it happened, with few interjections on my thought process. I'm writing this in hopes that by sharing this experience, others may learn from it. Specifically, that this sort of thing could happen to anyone at any time. I'm not looking for a "grade" because you don't get "A's" for this sort of thing. Just know that it happened. In life, all that matters is what happens. Not what could have been.

And now, back to that caliber war thread I was reading...
 
Give me a few hours to absorb that and I'll think of something to post...

...man...

Yeah, I'm the keyboard equivalent of tongue-tied.

That's crazy.

You kept your head about you, that much is clear. Good job.
 
scary thought

i wonder if the bag guy has your name and address from the police report? if he was arrested or questioned he can easily get access to the police report and come after you.
 
i wonder if the bag guy has your name and address from the police report? if he was arrested or questioned he can easily get access to the police report and come after you.
He already knows whats waiting for him if he tries.
 
Well I guess you realized like I did with my situation. You have a 6 ft 300lb guy who can commit assaults with no weapons, just brute strength, if you were not there with your handgun and your freind tried to take on this guy with just a kitchen knife, unless your friend is bigger and had some training, this guy would have killed both of your friends too. I never want to get stuck defending myself or my loved ones with something less than a gun.
 
Amazing

Ronnie,
That is an amazing story and I agree with the other posters, I would probably not have been as calm and would have shot the guy. If ever I found myself in a life or death situation, I would hope the citizen standing with me was you.

But I have to say, while I know in the heat of the moment 8 minutes for the LEO's to show seems like a long time, it would take much longer where I live.
 
I am not saying you did anything wrong. Nor am I saying what I think I would do is more correct.

I would have had a hard time not "ending the threat" as he beat her on the hood of the truck. He appears to be causing "serious bodily harm" at that point. I don't think I could let that continue if I had the means to stop it.
 
As others have said, I think you showed great restraint and kept a level head throughout the ordeal.

One thought that crossed my mind was the victim was one tough lady. To have survived the assault inside and then the beating outside, plus you said this was a big guy......she was obviously pretty damn tough.

I'm in Tampa.......what area/appt complex was this?
 
Thank you all for your kind words, but my appearance of "calm" is actually the result of many hesitations.

In retrospect, I didn't draw my gun on him not because of self-control but because I really didn't want to shoot him. I wanted the police to get there and so I went for my phone. If he had come after me instead of the woman when he emerged shirtless from the apartment, he'd have gotten me. And then I'd have been on the ground groping for my gun while my face was being punched in. I hesitated, and should have drawn on him the moment I saw him emerge from the apartment: weak hand on the phone, strong hand pointing my gun.

As for my friend's knife wielding boyfriend. He had the knife, but didn't seem to have the nerve to actually run up to the BG and eviscerate him. So he just stood there taunting and waving the knife around. I pushed him into the apartment not because I was afraid of him getting hurt, but because he was between me and the door. I wasn't thinking, he was just in the way of me and a safe place.

In all honesty, I forgot I even had my gun until we had all retreated into the apartment and I knew for sure that the BG was coming for us. Then, fear for my own life and theirs set in and I felt that bulk on my side, realized what it was, and grabbed it. All this from start to finish happened inside of a minute, and my mind was whirling.

What does this all mean? I need more training, I was just lucky, the Lord took mercy on me, and I wasn't prepared for this at all.

I'm in Tampa.......what area/appt complex was this?
I don't think it would be wise to answer this in full. It was one of the decrepit ones on the poor side of Bruce B. Downs road.
 
Good Job. You made out of their without you or your friends getting hurt. If I was in that same position I'm not sure how I would have acted. Your talk of getting more training definetly reminds me to find a course to take in the next two months.

I like how you went immediately for the phone. It shows you have a clear head on your shoulders instead of running in like John Wayne to the womans rescue. Just wish the response time was faster for police in rough neighborhoods.

Stay safe and good luck.
 
I'm not one to judge another man who has been through this kind of encounter. You did good. You survived, he survived, she survived. You really could not ask for more, and the end justifies the means.

If you want an in depth critique, I do not think I can give you one that is better than the one that has been buzzing in your head since this incident.

Good job Ronny.

One thing.......that friend with the knife..........he ain't no friend. He's a Class A idiot that you need to ditch. You could put him between two slices of bread and call him a trouble sandwich.
 
Something else to think about

What about the consequences of allowing the perpetrator to escape? The criminal, especially in this case, will not hesitate to victimize another person.

Florida statute 776.013 section (3): "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Personally, I would have drawn my weapon, sighted in on the perpetrator, approached close enough to ensure accuracy so as not to harm any other person, and shot to kill him without any verbal warning to the perpetrator. Not only would you be ending the victimization of this person, but also the future victimization of others.
 
As for my friend's knife wielding boyfriend. He had the knife, but didn't seem to have the nerve to actually run up to the BG and eviscerate him.
As well he shouldn't.

There's nothing wrong with what you did. Having a cwl doesn't make you guardian of the weak and downtrodden, and if you weren't prepared to shoot an attacker to stop a third party from being seriously hurt, you were right not to do so.

My friend's boyfriend is egging him on at this point with is knife -- so I push him back into the apartment. His girlfriend is hiding behind the refrigerator.
That is to me the best part of the story, no matter why you did it. Whether through subconscious action or by fate, you did the right thing, and you've evidently learned from it.

Ditto on the boyfriend being an idiot. Maybe he learned from the experience, but I don't think people like that learn from their emotion-driven mistakes very often.
 
"Shoot Him" - didn't you hear me screaming that from here in the UK!

+1

Has it occurred to anyone that the woman took one hell of a beating...
and might have died from it...

While you and your "gun" cowered in the doorway??
You didn't bring the gun into play until YOU were threatened! :mad:

At which point, you were "willing" enough to shoot the swine.

I (and my gun) could not have "watched" that scene take place, and let it continue one damned second longer, without at least trying to stop that 300 pounds s**t-bag.

What the hell were you thinking? :(

There's nothing wrong with what you did. Having a cwl doesn't make you guardian of the weak and downtrodden, and if you weren't prepared to shoot an attacker to stop a third party from being seriously hurt, you were right not to do so.

If you aren't "willing" to defend "the weak and downtrodden" it makes you very, very, low in my estimation.

And there is, most certainly, something wrong with it.
 
Sounds to me like you did just fine. I don't see what more you could have done. You stopped the assault and made yourself available as witness afterward.

If you are really curious, I would go ask the agency which responded what happened. It's not unusual for a case of this type to not come to trial for a year or more AFTER the bad guy is coralled. Could be he's been nabbed and plead out, too...

Don't think I would judge the response time of your LEO's too harshly. Remember first they have to get there before they can deal with the situation. I can't even tell you how many times I'm personally aware of, where officers crashed running lights & siren to a call. This is not good on several levels. I work in a town of 8,000, and it takes me 2 minutes (I've timed it) to get from one end to the other, and that's if everything goes my way.

BTW, NEVER underestimate edged weapons! To be honest, I don't always carry my Glock off duty, but I NEVER leave the house without my Gerber Gator, honed shaving sharp, at my side.

After all my years on the street, I've learned to be more afraid of a bad guy with a knife than I am of one armed with a handgun. Most veteran LEOs I know share this view. A bad guy has to have some semblance of skill to effectively employ the bellygun, with the knife, all he has to do is get close. If you manage to survive an edged weapon attack, you will most likely be maimed for life...
 
I (and my gun) could not have "watched" that scene take place, and let it continue one damned second longer, without at least trying to stop that 300 pounds s**t-bag.

What the hell were you thinking?

You're right, I should've shot him. But I didn't want to shoot him because:

1). He was on top of the woman and both of them were thrashing around. No room for a missed shot.
2). There was a guy waving a knife around yelling next to me.
3). He never forcibly entered my friend's apartment.

Part of me says that I should've killed him that night, but I'm glad I didn't. I don't think the law would've justified me in that action. I'm not a cop; I can't make that split second decision of taking a life and having the department back me up legally. The man didn't have a weapon, and my party was not assaulted physically. By the time I had a clear shot, he had ceased attacking the woman and, furthermore, fled the scene. No... I don't think the law would be on my side if I killed that man that night.

It's puzzling, our legal system today. In the early years of our great country, evil men died for lesser things.
 
Nobody can say sitting behind their computers that you did anything wrong, especially not having been in the same situation, or actually anything close to it.

I do not currently have a CCW permit. But when I do I am going to ensure a few things about myself:

1. I will look up the state laws myself and understand them fully to the best of my ability. All the Florida law says is that you have reasonable expectation that a perpetrator is going to kill anyone, cause serious bodily harm to anyone, or forcibly commit a felony and you can shoot them.
2. I will try to put the welfare of others over my own welfare. Do I feel the responsibility to defend all law abiding citizens whether or not I know them? Yes I do, otherwise I wouldn't remain a member of the military after 21 years now. My home was invaded by a perp who kicked in our dead-bolt locked front door while my wife was at home alone. Our three dogs chased him out, thank God. We both have our handguns now and will shoot the next person who enters our home forcibly for the equal reasons of protecting ourselves, our family and any other future victims whom the criminal may attack.
3. I would practice enough (and I do, currently twice a week) to know the limitations of my shooting ability. You're right, a shot at a perp sideways in close contact with the victim is very hard, but I would hope to have the bravery and coolness of thought to quietly approach with my weapon drawn close enough to guarantee an accurate shot.
4. Never shoot at someone without the sole intent to kill them.

But, it is very easy to write this in the safety of this office not ever having faced a situation myself.
 
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