Ishapore 2A1

I seem to remember reading about Brit armorers being able to adjust headspace with extensions to the bolt face. SMLE's may have been prone to excessive head space as they aged.

I would consider scoping the barrel and checking the crown.
 
No. 4 rifles were numbered to facilitate headspace adjustments. The older SMLE were not; It was trial and error.

Regarding the receivers and headspace, the Indians developed a much higher strength alloy that would allow the use of .308 ammunition in No. 1 type receivers.

The Australians met with disastrous results when they tried .308 conversions of No. 1s with original .303 receivers. Reports of excess headspace developing occurred in cases where less than 20 rounds had been fired.

BTW: One of my 2A1s, is able to consistently hit a large hog size rock at 400 yds with open sights.
 
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Good to hear guys.

At least for now, I will be shooting only ZQI 7.62x51mm NATO M80 147 grain in the rifle. I can get this stuff at Wal-Mart for $9.99 a box, and it runs perfectly through my PTR-91. Would this be a safe load for my new rifle?

The idea about using the German blue tip practice ammo is very intriguing. That stuff was cheap not long ago. Is it safe to shoot in an Ishapore? Truth be told, most of me shooting will be at a 25 yard indoor range off a bench so I won't need any long range stuff for that!!

My Ishapore was SUPPOSED to be in today... there was a mix up though, long story but I should have the rifle on Sunday since I'll be working all day tomorrow and won't be able to pick it up.

As for stripper clips, I've got some parkerized looking ones that I got off some Radway Green ammo bandoliers, 7.62 NATO of course. Will have to see how those run. I'd like to know of some good smooth stripper clips in case they don't work well. They seem a bit stiff.

I'd love to hear any more advice, I need all of it I can get!
 
Do you reload?

A number of years ago, I was given a great "indoor" load that works for any .30 round. You take a primed case, a couple of grains of your favorite pistol powder, Unique, Bullseye, etc, and top it (just lightly tap the ball into the sized neck) with a Hornady lead .310 round ball (muzzle loader).

Ive used this for years now, in my .308 and 30-06 guns, including my M1's. At 25 yards, I need to put 10 clicks on my 100 yard zero, but my offhand groups are in the 2"-3" range. The most fun is watching the expressions on peoples faces, when you pull out an M1, and when you pull the trigger, it goes "pop". :)

Ive chronographed the load a couple of times, and with a couple of grains of the two powders above, got on average, 650fps at 15'.
 
Keep your fired brass, one day you will start, trust me.
The old Lee "Whack a mole" $35.oo loaders are fine for .303 Brit.:D
There are many "gallery loads" using round balls, .32 pistol bullets & so on.

They surprise the heck out of other indoor shooters when the "moose Rifle" goes "poot" :cool:
 
Keep your fired brass, one day you will start, trust me.
The old Lee "Whack a mole" $35.oo loaders are fine for .303 Brit.
There are many "gallery loads" using round balls, .32 pistol bullets & so on.
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I was going to post about Winchester made .303 chamber inserts in .32 ACP available on eBay, until I remembered that the 2As are .308.
 
At pistol pressure levels the .308 action can handle the extra swaging with no problem. Or you could use .30 carbine or any of the 30 caliber (7.62) pistol bullets.
 
A few years ago, a friend gave me one, I just checked, its marked RFI 2A 7.62mm 1967.

The rifle had been repainted with black paint, to the point where the mag was "painted in" and could not be removed. I cleaned it up enough to get the mag in and out, and that's as far as I got, its in the closet now...

Apparently black paint WAS one of the correct finishes for these rifles, however, this one had been redone by the guy my friend got it from, and rather badly.

It looks just like the WW I SMLE .303, other than the mag box bottom and being a little bit longer.

I'm sure its quite adequate for the chambering, but have not shot it myself.

I would not expect any of these rifles to give reloaders "normal" case life, they were never made with that in mind.
 
Apparently black paint WAS one of the correct finishes for these rifles, however, this one had been redone by the guy my friend got it from, and rather badly.
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Black paint is the correct finish, and "rather badly" is the factory option. I doubt anyone could do it worse. :)
 
You are correct.

However this:
"Its designed for 7.62X51mm NATO spec ammo, not .308 Win commercial ammo. You could reload .308 win to 7.62 specs though."

I total internet BS. 7.62x51 and .308 Win. are simply different designations for the exact same factory ammo. One poster will say that .308 will detonate your 7.62, and the next will post just the opposite. Military and commercial brass can have some small differences (but not always), and commercial chambers can be tighter than most military chambers. Other than that, factory military 7.62x51 is the same as commercial .308.
 
total internet BS
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For the most part, I agree. Most manuals dont give you any data for 7.62x51, so how are you supsed to load for it?

Ive been shooting 30-06 and .308/7.62x51 for most of my life, and have shot tens of thousands of reloads for both, and never had any issues.

The 30-06 uses the same powders that are readily available to us, and the data is the same, or at least it is between my commercial manuals, and the copy of Lake City's manual I have.

The 7.62x51 in the LC manual, uses different powders than are readily available to us, but the commercial data for 4064 or 4895 and correct weight bullets, have always given the same results. Most commercial manuals will recommend you reduce the load by 1 grain, if using military brass, and thats really the only thing of any credibility Ive seen, from people who deal with this sort of thing for a living. If anyone knows whats what, they would, and you dont see them getting upset.

The military brass for both calibers, is different than the commercial brass, and Ive always found it to be shorter lived than the commercial. The commercial stuff is a lot easier to work with too. Military brass is a PITA.

My .308 reloads using commercial brass, and shot from military 7.62x51 chambers, lasts as long as anything else, and has never shown any signs of pressure or failure.
 
Okay guys, I got the gun...

And it doesn't feed right! The magazine is not original to the gun, that's the only part that doesn't match. I'll have to mess with the feed lips I guess... feeling a bit miffed right now it's like... omg... :(
 
Mine didnt feed right with the original mag that came with the gun, which looked to be correct. The mag I got from Gun Parts, was a new aftermarket, and it solved the problem for the most part.

Is there up and down play in the mag while in the gun? The issue with the original in mine was there. The "tab" on the back of the mag was slightly off or mislocated, allowing it to sit to low and not pick up the rounds off the mag. If I pressed up on the bottom of the mag and worked the bolt, it would pick them up better. My initial attempt at fixing it without spending any more money, was to remove the paint and park, and put a bit of solder in the right place and reshape it to hold the mag higher. It sorta worked, but not as well as the new mag.
 
With most modern sporting arms I'd agree 100% with the interchangeability of 7.62mm NATO & .308 Winchester.
However this is not a modern sporting rifle its an Indian rework of a design from the 1890's.
Things like "light magnum .308" & other specialized loads hadn't been invented before production ceased.
As for no reloading data existing that's false. I have several manuals that list different loads for civilian & military spec loads for the caliber in separate sections.
I don't believe in "stretchy actions" or much of the other misunderstood re-quotes myself, but it'll handle standard military loads just fine in perpetuity. Light, cast & gallery loads are just fun to mess with though.
 
I have several manuals that list different loads for civilian & military spec loads for the caliber in separate sections.
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Which would they be? Id be interested in checking them out.

I use Sierra, Hornady, and Speer's current (and older manuals), and none of them list 7.62x51 loadings. Hornady has a .308 Service Rifle listing, but that is simply loads geared to the M1A/M14, and not something 7.62x51 specific. Same for the 30-06 and the M1.

I had a friend who worked for the Lake City Arsenal back in the 60's, who had a manual that had their loads, for everything they loaded ammo for, which I have a copy of. The manual is dated 1969, and long out of date. It does list the various loads the military was using for the 7.62x51, but at the time, those powders were not available to us, or at least I was never able to find any. 30-06 was using IMR 4895, and those loaded were easily duplicated. (The manual is dated 1969, and long out of date.)

Most of what I load the military .30 calibers for, are older, military rifles, and I load them to, or as close to, the specs called out for those rifles (bullet velocity, type, weight, OAL, etc), and especially the auto loading rifles.

The only rifle had I had issue with brass wise, was my 7.62x51 Indian Ishpore. None of the other rifles in either .308 or 30-06, have had any issues.

I do believe the Ishpores issue was more headspace related, than it was ammo related though.
 
I'm very surprised the aftermarket (Pro-Mag) mag helped, I've had and trashed 2 of those. Tweaking the feed lips and changing mags seems to be the only way to get 2As feeding right.

I did mention that there was a difference in military and commercial brass. Military cases have a thicker web near the base to withstand MG extraction, and that gives them a slightly smaller internal capacity. Outside dimensions are the same as commercial brass.
 
I talked to a fellow shooter at our range today, who owns a Ishapore 2A1. He warned me to stay away from the 150 grain Wolf ammo; but the 145 grain Wolf ammo is okay.

He claimed that the 150 grain Wolf ammo destroyed his Ishapore extractor, and that many other shooters are also having problems with it. The price of the 150 grain Wolf is going down at the present moment --- while the price of the 145 grain Wolf is higher but stabilized.

He also said that the 10 grain plastic bullet is not very accurate in long barreled guns like the Ishapore, but accurate in shorter barrels.

Another fellow shooter gave me a box of that German 308 plastic ammo that had a slotted green bullet with a green case. Unbeknownst to both of us...is that the ammo was blank ammunition. Well last week, I gave that ammo a try in my Mas 49/56 at a paper target at 50 yards. I was shocked that I did not hit paper on the first round. So I ejected the spent round without looking at the case and sent another one downrange. I still did not hit paper.

This time I looked a the spent round...and I saw that the slotted bullet was still in the case. The gasses escape from the slots in the bullet.:p

The first shooter claims his is getting good groups with his Ishapore, using non corrosive Austrian mill-spec ammo.
 
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