Is this Glock "flaw" true?

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twoblink

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So I have a friend who's dad has been in the secret service for 12 years or so. Hates the glocks. I asked him why. He says, without the external safeties, if the glock is sitting on the nightstand, and you reach for it in the dark, you can accidentally squeeze a round off if you reach for it in a hurry. I can understand that. Here's the one I want to ask about though that he said:

He says that the trigger safety can be frozen. Is that true? I can see that happening too, and if that's the case, then I definitely won't get a glock. I know, I have the ad at home where the glock was frozen is a block of ice. But a block of ice is insulated and can only get down to 0 degrees centigrade. What about when it's "COLD"? I'm talking sub freezing, will the trigger safeties actually freeze???

Pro-Glock Cults, Anti-Glock Cults, give it to me straight up....

Albert
 
If you pick up your Glock (or anyfirearm) properly, by not putting your finger inside the trigger guard until you are ready to destroy what the little hole is pointed at, you will never discharge it accidentally.
 
Where do people get this crap? A piece of plastic (or steel, for that matter) can't "freeze," because it's already frozen. Freezing is the temperature at which a liquid becomes a solid, whether it's 32 degrees or 700. Any substance in a solid state is not going to get any more solid if you lower the temperature. Can its properties change? Yes. Metal or plastic can conceivably become more brittle or change in other ways when exposed to low temperatures. However, there have been no studies that I've seen that have determined that the functionality of the trigger on a Glock is affected by normal outdoor extremes of hot and cold. In other words, your friend's dad is full of it.
 
please use some common sense--if you do that, then there wouldn't be any stupid questions.

Getting onto the 1st part of the question--revolvers don't have external safeties either--moreover, whether you reach for a gun in a hurry or not, the finger should always be off the trigger until ready to shoot--if you can't do that--get rid of your guns plain and simple. It's not a hard thing to do with practice.

2nd--like I said, THINK--if the Glock's been out in subzero weather, I'm sure something's gonna get frozen--ANY GUN for that matter!!! GeezUs, what does the word sub-zero mean? Did you think that only Glocks freeze in sub-zero weather? and only the trigger safety? As great as the Glocks are, they don't have a built in heater--no gun does.

Point is--if Glocks freeze, then all guns freeze--by definition (sub-zero temp.) My contention is that Glocks will work better than any firearm in any condition, but that's beside the point.

And I was having a pretty good day!!

[This message has been edited by rstevea (edited May 30, 2000).]
 
Hey twoblink,

PreserveFreedom has it right. Stick your finger in the trigger guard and you are ready to go... Seems to me law 2 says "Never point the firearm at anything you do not wish to destroy" - This does apply to ALL firearms.

As far as freezing, any firearm that is neglected and improperly prepared for the cold will have a problem in sub zero weather. Many firearms will have problems when they haven't been cleaned properly... Why would Glocks be any different?

I keep my Glocks hidden by the bed in the holster. Works for me!
 
Since this guy is in the secret service he most likely carries a sig 229 in .357sig. sigs also do not have any external safeties and opperate much like revolvers since you just pick them up and they are ready to go in DA mode. If you grab a sig incorrectly then you will have the same problem as with glocks. also if you are going to pull the trigger when you're grabbing a glock you must grab your guns pretty roughly since you have to pull the trigger back approximately 1/2 inch and pull around 5.5 pounds without even noticing your pulling the trigger.

if you are really concerned about this then put a safety block in your glock and take that out after you grab your glock.

also this freezing thing doesn't make much sense to me. as craigz said the term freezing means a liquid turning into a solid. what does this have to do with a gun made of metal and plastic. there isn't any water in the gun so there isn't anything to freeze.

along with that i think a different tourture test that was placed on glocks was to drop them in the snow somewhere in alaska, come back in 20 minutes, pick them up and fire them. IIRC i read this in an article in i think Handguns magazine and the only gun that worked properly was a glock.

how much colder are you planning on letting your glock get. besides if your carrying it in the cold it will be up against your body and your body warmth will keep it warm.
 
That cold-weather test was done by Chuck Taylor. It involved loading the weapons to capacity, firing them empty, reloading, and then dropping them into a snow drift. The "hot" guns would then melt the snow around them, allowing a certain level of moisture into their innards. After they were "frozen", the guns were picked up and fired again. I don't recall the aggregate round count, but only a few guns stood up to it w/o choking in some way. The Glock, the BHP, the 1911, and some sort of N-frame .357.
Is there anyplace in the state of Kalifornia where this would even BE a concern? Maybe a snowcapped mountain top? :)
 
The main trouble about Glocks I feel is they are too popular and too cheap for other makers ! The hype surrounding its launch ("plastic gun" etc etc)was un-purchaseable by other makers who must have been green with envy. Perhaps they are now striking back, who knows ?

Personally speaking- I didn't buy one due to a poor trigger, looks and the lack of a separate and visible safety - IE for range use only, (self-defence and carrying are proscribed here since 1989.)

For S/D and police/military use I can see some initial training and even operational problems, but overall it appears to be a good durable choice and has had few real problems here so far, so the problems outlined in this posting appear a bit weak to me.

As regards reloading - the manufacturers and distributors here warn ONLY jacketed factory ammo should be used for safety (and also completely voiding the warranty) reasons.

I am not a Glock-hater..OK... I just never want to buy one after trying a CZ-75 in 40S&W! I pay $$...so I chose my pistol/marque on the merit (to me) of the sampled product.

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***Big Bunny***
 
Kinda reminds me of that oil additive info-mercial i saw where they carved out a block of ice and stuck a running engine inside to show how the engine could still run while in a blck of ice. I would have volunteered to put muself inside the carved block of ice to show that my internals could keep on ticking too !

Marketing, HA !

Tim :)

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Washington DC does not allow citizens to own guns. Yes it's the murder capital of the U.S.

More gun laws are worthless, zero tolerence is the key !
 
I don't know anything about Glocks, but I wonder if you're taking the word "freezing" too literally. He probably meant "stuck in the on position", or "stuck in the off position." I've heard "frozen" lots of time to refer to metal parts that have somehow gotten stuck in position, for example a "frozen clutch".

However, I have no clue if a Glock trigger safety can be stuck relative to the trigger.

The "grabbing the gun in the dark" doesn't sound all that far-fetched. Before people start intoning pompously about a rule of safety, they might want to read a thread a couple weeks back here by someone who was putting their Glock away, and dropped it. In a reflex, they grabbed for the falling gun, and had a negligent discharge.

It take me a while to wake up completeIy
from a deep sleep. I personally dont' want a pistol in the nightstand. I know and understand the NRA safety rules. I'm not confident that I would exercise them 100% of the time, within a couple of seconds of waking up. Your mileage may vary...

It seems to me that whatever weapon you chose to use for self defense, there's a balance between speed of access and safety. Unless you're the kind of person that wakes up perfectionally rational, eyes in focus, etc. from a sound sleep every time, you have to figure out where that balance is for you. The tradeoff is that you want to be able to shoot a bad guy very quickly before he can harm you, but you probably don't want tp shoot your kid or a confused neighbor. I guess this also has a lot to do with the neighborhood you live in.

Just my $.02

munir

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ahlan wa sahlan
PCV Yemen 1984-86
 
Twoblink, Sorry about the comments from some of the members of this forum. An honest question doesn't deserve such replies.

Regarding your questions, I agree with the problem about squeezing a round off when grabbing for the gun in the middle of the night. If I didn't have a kid and just kept the gun on the nightstand, I could see being concerned about grabbing a glock in the middle of the night when a BG is beating at the door. I would be most worried about a lower finger (not the trigger finger, I know to keep that out of the guard) accidently going into the guard as I'm grabbing for the grip.(It's dark remember)

The key is the difference in pull between a "DAO" glock and the DA of a Sig, Berretta, etc. The 5# (or even 3.5) of the Glock is a lot less than the 10# of my Sig. The simple answer is to use some sort of light to see where you are grabbing the gun(even night sights would help to give a reference), or better yet keep a block behind the trigger, but I still see it as a valid point. Whether you feel it has any weight on whether you use a glock is a personal matter.

I agree with the others that the "frozen trigger" is most likely a non-issue. The only problem I could see is ice freezing the trigger safe of the Glock, but I don't see that happening and it would certainly have happened in testing if it could happen in the field. For that matter, whatever caused the trigger safe to freeze in the glock, would certainly cause problems with other guns, argueably worse than the glock.(a good whack to the trigger with the slide back would probably cure the problem anyway) But again, I don't see that happening.

Again, sorry about the harsh posts above. Maybe they know something I don't, but your questions some to be honest, not cheap shots at the Glock. You asked for it straight up, but I don't think that was what you meant.


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Kiffster
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Sig 229 .40 - When you care enough to shoot the very best!
 
Why are you worrying about something freezing on a Glock? Do you live within the Antarctic Circle?

I think you're being fed a load of bunk.

[This message has been edited by dvc (edited May 31, 2000).]
 
I have so many holes in my bedroom walls from that damn pistol going off. Having owned Glocks for going on 7 yrs now, I find this problem very far fetched. If you're worried about this happening maybe you had better train more and work on eliminating bad habits. Who grabs their gun hard enuf to depress the trigger? Do not blame your recklessness, lack of experinece, or total disregard for firearms safety on a weapons design. I've carried a Glock for duty and off-duty carry and with safe handling procedures have yet to have a ND. Am I saying never? No. These things happen, but if a person utilizes safe handling proceedures then this is not a problem.

Be Safe
Mike
 
fors some real replies go to www.glocktalk.com

above replies are being pretty harsh, you just don't know, first, if you keep a glock in a holster, like you sould you can't reach the trigger, also, if you grab the gun like you are supposed to then its fine that way, i have 3 glocks, and carry all 3 of them on a regular basis, i have 0! a/d with glocks, and many with pistols that have safety, because you get used to safety, and it don't go off.then you forget to flick it and BOOM. on the other hand with safety's i have tried to shoot and not had a bang because saftey's were on, bottom line, glock goes bang when you pull the trigger. if you don't pull it, it don't go bang. shoot one if you like it get it.

if the trigger worries you, get a 3.5# connector, if you can't shoot a glock, you can't shoot a da/sa. it works the same, you just control the trigger reset instead of the gun. and the work ALL THE TIME. no jams, no finiky ammo needed.

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454Casull when it absolutely Has to be destroyed.
 
Okay, on the freezing issue. This happens a few times each winter in the Panhandle of Texas.

What happens is you're out running around in the cold, and your pistol (other equipment also, for that matter) chills to ambient air temp.

Then you wander into a warm, humid office. The cold temperature of the pistol condenses the moisture in the air, the moisture gathers where it condensed, and if the weapon is cold enough or you go back outside into the below-zero air, it freezes into ice.

This is not a problem that is restricted to Glocks. Any and all weapons (or any other gear) will do the same thing under the same conditions.

This is more of a concern for Peace Officers who wear their sidearms outside of their winter clothing. A CHL holder, who wears his pistol inside his clothing where his body heat doesn't allow the weapon to reach below zero temps, shouldn't have much of a problem.
LawDog

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited May 31, 2000).]
 
smoney, I would never think of flaming anyone on TFL, but I would respectfully disagree with your statement that "if you can't shoot a glock, you can't shoot a da/sa."

I don't think the Glock fits into the DA, SA, or DAO mold. It is different than any other system before it, which presents its own unique problems and benefits. I will grant that it is a clear benefit for some individuals, if you will grant that it is a clear disadvantage for others.

I would love a Glock some day, but the main reason I don't have one now is that I don't want Glock's Safe Action Trigger, even though I think it is an ingenious design.

One point you made that I agree completely with is that "glock goes bang when you pull the trigger." My sig does the same thing. Whether DA or SA, I don't need to worry about a safety. But that 10# pull for the first DA shot(if I so choose), or a crisp SA shot when I want/need it is the key difference, and I like it. To each his own.

Kiffster

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Sig 229 .40 - When you care enough to shoot the very best!
 
Thank you Lawdog, finally a good response to the freezing thing. Condensation is what will freeze, not the gun parts. I agree though that this would apply to all guns, not just Glock's.
I carry a G30 with a SafTblok behind the trigger. My main reason was because accidents don't happen because your stupid or don't know how to rescite the NRA 3 basic safety rules in your sleep. They happen because unusual circumstances have caused you to bypass certain safety measures. In the military we call it acceptable risk.
I guy banging down your door will have you reaching for your gun before you even force your pasty eye's open.
I don't think these are against Glock though. You can get just as many people saying a safety might prevent you from shooting when you need to as you can not having a safety might cause an accidental discharge.

You have to go with what's comfortable for you and practice with it.

Oh, and as a suggestion, if you have anything that remotely sounds anti-Glock don't bring it to Glock Talk. Your better off sleeping with their daughter or something rather the say there is something wrong with a Glock. There are some good people there but you kinda have to weed out the crap. As you can see by some of the above replies, that problem happens here sometimes too.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
With a 2yoa in the house I have to place my pistol on a shelf about 4ft away from the bed. It is always left in the same position and condition (full mag empty chamber). The flash light is behind the gun. Could I find and operate with my eyes closed, read in the dark, you bet. With a little practice it was easy to do in the dark.

PS in glock armorors school the instructor stated that polymer is more resistant to temperature fluctuations and doesnt absorb the cold like steel (grab ice cold engine parts and it makes your fingers hurt?) Polymer doesnt transfer that cold (or heat)to the body like metal does. And if your not speaking of ice then it is a rare mechanical problem that I am not familiar with
 
I have fired the glock in true -40 degree weather in Bethel AK. The models I have tried work fine including (17,21,20,31). Polimer guns do better in the cold than steel and aluminum guns.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
WOW, some of you are just down right hostile! I asked a simple question from something I heard, and I solicited all would-be commentors, and some of the responses didn't win me as a glock fan let's just say. I didn't make the statement, just asking; if this is the general type of response, then I don't know if I want to be in the catagory of "glock owners", I might have a stigma that I don't want associated with me.

LawDog is right. I clarified the statement made by my friend's dad. And he said it like LawDog did. Moisture collects (be it sweat, or most commonly, going from cold to warm) and then back to cold again. Water collects on the trigger safety, and when you are in the cold again, the water freezes. If the Glock won't go off when the trigger safety is not depressed, and the trigger safety is now frozen (even if the trigger will move back, the trigger safety is now stuck in what I call the "non-depressed" position) then the glock (by virtue of design right?) won't fire RIGHT??

And while I'm sure that this is a problem that is not limited to glocks, I'm sure that moisture can collect on beretta safeties and then get frozen and stuck, I'm addressing it specifically as it pretains to glocks and trigger safeties.

And no, glock triggers and DA/SA are not the same. I don't think I'd "accidentally" squeeze off a round in a Sig or HK, but quite possibly in a Glock. 10# of pull for a DA is a lot compared to 5.5#.

Albert
 
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