Is this acceptable?

Brother,

Simply owning a cpl J frames doesn't mean you know how to shoot one. Buying a Guitar doesn't mean i can play the darn thing.

Based on the statements you have made reguarding YOUR inability to make solid hits at anything other then almost contact distance...i stand by my statement.

Get some training.
 
Oh Lord.
Look at #20.
I'm done.




...and OP: Ignore that rear sight and put that FRONT sight into the gut of the object of your attention.
All else is folly beyond that outside of sport.)
 
If the gun is shooting low/left, then you can shave the right side of the front sight to get it on for windage, then shorten it for elevation.
The last new revolver I bought shot a foot low and six inches right at 25 yards, so it was easy to adjust the sights with a file to get it on target.
That's assuming you are seeing the same low/left when shooting both single action and double action.
I certainly would not put in any practice holding the gun off target (Kentucky windage).
 
I have been shooting these little guns a long time. The get to know it time is long, the learning curve for me was slow. I fired a LOT of rounds to learn how they shoot. I have 5 snubbies all with targets similar to these.

J frame airweight Twenty Five Yards. Yes that is a big target.
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And last but not least, my little 21A they told me I could not hit a garbage can if I was standing in it.
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Keep shooting Spend time and Ammo, get the hang of it as if your life depends on it. That is what I do.
David
 
my bulldog 44

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And my Bigger Bulldog, S&W 624 44 special six o'clock hold

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Perhaps you found a passion of mine :)

The Charter Arms Bulldog (top) fits in most of my J frame holsters.

David
 
David,

An inch and a half at 10 YARDS??? Oh my, i guess it can be done:eek:

Good shooting Brother.

Mehavey..

Of course, shooting under stress and at speed is HARDER then pokin holes in paper calmly at the range. I have had to do both (multiple times) an I would not hesitate to take a headshot at 10feet with my current J frame.

Would i rather have a different gun?...sure. But if thats what i had in hand..thats what id use, without reservations. That is one difference between Professionals and hobbyists. Proficiency under stress
 
Guys, we can keep this chest bumping exercise up all night long to little avail

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Let us also admit that there might be several of us who have had stress under fire -- possibly even more than a few times.

PAX
For I am a man under authority,
having soldiers under me:
and I say to this man, Go,
and he goeth; and to another, Come,
and he cometh...
 
Maybe I'm asking too much out of this snub nose? Kind of regretting bring up this subject, but guess I'll learn something? I'll take a picture of my target Saturday and post it here (if I can figure out how to post images) and show you what's happening. In the mean time, are there images on the internet of the proper sight picture for a S&W snub nose? Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Here's a crude way of showing how I hold the sights to get even close to acceptable accuracy. Still too far left, and a little low.

_|_

Note the front sight is way above the plain of the rear notch.
If I hold like this:

_._

It shoots low, way low. Maybe I'm too used to BoMar sights and their dead on accuracy?
 
Mike 38 a couple of the targets in post 24 have my sight picture drawn on the target. S&W builds their snubs for a 158 grain bullet. A lighter bullet will shoot lower. If it's off that much, email S&W for a return label.

The 637 has a laser grip sight that is adjustable. I shot most of them iron sights.

David
 
Maybe I'm asking too much out of this snub nose?
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I don't think so. I don't think it's asking too much for a firearm equipped with sights to have sights that actually allow you to have the bullets land where you're aiming. That's what you paid your money for.

I'd send it back to S&W and have them fix it.
 
DavidR wrote;
Mike 38 a couple of the targets in post 24 have my sight picture drawn on the target. S&W builds their snubs for a 158 grain bullet. A lighter bullet will shoot lower. If it's off that much, email S&W for a return label.
Click to expand...

David, in your post #24 image 2, that's very similar to how mine shoots. If you are okay with yours, then should I be okay with mine?

Also, I was shooting 130 grain Winchester white box. So the bit low should be expected I guess.

This is difficult for me from transition from semi auto's with good sights. For example my Beretta 92FS, 115 grain ball to 147 grain sub sonic hollow point self defense rounds, all the same point of impact at 10 yards. My Colt M1911, 185 grain SWC to 230 grain ball, all the same point of impact at 10 yards. Things start to change at 25 and 50 yards, which I expect.
 
Got it! Thank you Mehavy

These little guys are harder to shoot than my full size match grade 45 with bomar sights. I take all the challenges I can to improve my skills.

They tell me if you put a J frame in a ransom rest it will group as well as a longer barrel. I am not a ransom rest.

If you put as many rounds down range as you have with your 45 you would be much better with the little guy.

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That is a lightweight officers model 45 and its tough to shoot.

I don't see this as chest beating, Just showing what they can do under different circumstances.

No I have never fired under stress unless you consider a charging dog stress. When I did, my one round from the Bulldog fired DA two hands hit the dirt in front of the dog right where I wanted it. He was sprayed with dirt, turned around and ran away.

Have fun,
David
 
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- Take a pic and save it to your computer as a JPG file

Go to <Tinypic.com>
- Per instructions in top box, upload your JPG pic (sized to 150k or less)
- Solve their little puzzle to keep spambots at bay
- Copy the resulting URL for layouts that it produces (the bottom box)

- Paste that URL into the FiringLine Reply box (click in the "Insert Image" icon at top)

- Done
 
Is this acceptable?
I have a fixed sight carry handgun that shoots to the left about three inches, and low about one inch at 10 yards. It's not me, anyone that shoots it gets the same results.
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Are you talking double action or single action?

Are you right-handed?

Is "anyone" else getting the same result right-handed?

What's your length of experience shooting revolvers, let alone small J-frame revolvers?

The light weight, small grip, short sight radius and shorter trigger reach & heavy trigger of the little snubs can prove more difficult even for revolvers shooters who normally do much of their practice using larger revolvers. The older narrow sights can make things even more difficult because some folks find them harder to see and hold properly aligned throughout the trigger press.

I agree with another poster's suggestion to try some "ball & dummy" drills, to see how much anticipatory flinching may be occurring.

Small DA/DAO snub revolvers can often seem to be "less tolerant" of shooter issues and influences than larger handguns.

In the hands of an experienced revolver shooter, the little 5-shot J's can often demonstrate surprising inherent and practical accuracy.

I own and use more than half a dozen J-frames. Being a long time revolver shooter, I like the little 5-shot snubs. I often use mine (mostly aluminum or scandium aluminum models) to "chase the hole" or make called hits on little wooden clothespins spaced around the target backboard, usually at 5-7yds, but farther on good days. I often use them to check my "basics" from 25-50yds, too.
 
Well I guess I'm not smart enough to post pictures to this site. Just got home from the range. Shot the S&W M60 J-Frame, single action, at 7 yards on a B-27 target. WWB 130 grain ammo. Five rounds with the sights like this _._ holding on the orange X ring. All shots nicely grouped, two inches left, two inches low. Five more shots with the sights like this _|_ All shots nicely grouped two inches left. Then five more shots with the sights like this _|_ holding to the right of the orange X-ring, all shots in the X-ring.

So, what's next? Try heavier bullets to bring the impact up? Shave a little off the right side of the front sight? Both?

Just for confirmation I then shot 15 rounds through my Beretta 92FS at 7 yards. All 15 rounds in the X-ring.
 
I have to say, from a personal perspective, regardless of how I might train for a stressed encounter, I would still expect my sights to be on target if I ever want to shoot for pure marksmanship reasons.

I agree that if it has sights, they should point where the bullet is going, not some other direction...

Maybe I'm asking too much out of this snub nose?
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I have a 2" snub which also has fixed sights: front ramp and then top-strap gutter sight for the rear. I fortunate to say it hits where it's aimed. I don't say this to rub your face in it, but only to say that your gun really should be hitting where you're aiming. Not at 50yds, but still it should be hitting around the general POA at 25, IMO in slow shooting SA mode at least.
 
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If you can get your hands on a 38/357 cartridge bore sighter, it'll tell you definitively whether it's you or the gun at 7 - 10 yards. The other way is through sandbags or a ransom rest. However, from what you'd described, low & left, it reads like a classic case of trigger control.
 
Okay, so ...

Are you right or left handed?

If right-handed, try the little snub left-handed. If it's then getting POI hits low/right, it's probably not the gun.

This can also be affected by how much finger is being used, too. I've seen my fair share of shooters start pulling the muzzle off in the 'opposite' direction (of a normal jerk/flinch) by using too much index finger for the hand size/trigger reach conditions in their situation.

On the plus side of things, at least you're not making another common mistake you can see among fixed sight/snub revolver shooters, which is a tendency to elevate the front sight higher than appropriate (in order to see it), and then wonder why they're getting high hits. (More common among owners of the older J's, where the front post/ramp is dime-thin, and hard to see even in good light. ;) )
 
I have a fixed sight carry handgun that shoots to the left about three inches, and low about one inch at 10 yards. It's not me, anyone that shoots it gets the same results. Is this acceptable accuracy or do I have a problem here?
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I would not be satisfied with that. If it was mine, I would have it repaired. YMMV
 
Are you right or left handed?

If right-handed, try the little snub left-handed. If it's then getting POI hits low/right, it's probably not the gun.
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I am right handed, and will try it left handed. Good idea!

Low left for a right handed shooter means he's jerking the trigger, which I don't think I'm doing. :confused:
 
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