I have a fixed sight carry handgun that shoots to the left about three inches, and low about one inch at 10 yards. It's not me, anyone that shoots it gets the same results. Is this acceptable accuracy or do I have a problem here? If it matters, it's a Smith & Wesson J-Frame M-60 in .38 Special. It's a carry gun, so I doubt it would get used at any distances greater than 5 to 7 yards (while I pray I never have to find out). Granted, at the range I hold the sights accordingly, but in the heat of the moment, I'm sure things like that get forgotten. Thank you for replies.
Is this acceptable?
- Thread starter Mike38
- Start date
That^^^ will not show if the SIGHTS are properly regulated.
I know you said other have had the same POI issues, but "low, left" (righthanded shooter) is almost always trigger control problems. In fact, its the MOST common trigger control symptom.
I would suggest doing a ball and dummy exercise live fire (in single action if your gun will allow that) on the range. If the sights dont dip when the dummy round is under the hammer AND the fired Rounds are still low/left then the sights ARE off
My experience (best guess) is doing it that way the hits will center up nicely
I know you said other have had the same POI issues, but "low, left" (righthanded shooter) is almost always trigger control problems. In fact, its the MOST common trigger control symptom.
I would suggest doing a ball and dummy exercise live fire (in single action if your gun will allow that) on the range. If the sights dont dip when the dummy round is under the hammer AND the fired Rounds are still low/left then the sights ARE off
My experience (best guess) is doing it that way the hits will center up nicely
And AGAIN.. How does not lining up the sights tell you ANYTHING about where the sights point respective to the group??
The OP is not asking about point shooting or even "gross body alignment". He states that when using the sights he hits low/left and even mentions holding off to get centered hits and not remembering to do that under stress.
Step 1. Determine EXACTLY POA/POI
Step 2. If it is off, figure out a fix.
A fixed sight revolver like the OP's model 60 can be tuned some to adjust POI. An example is to lower the height of the front sight to raise POI. But this should only be done AFTER the human error element is eliminated as the cause.
I use a complicated method to determine sight accuracy:
(1) Completely disassemble the revolver to bare frame. (This assumes you don't have a frame mounted firing pin.)
(2) Draw a dot on the wall.
(3) If possible, have a means of securing the gun, such as a small machinist's vice or propped up between some books or what have you.
(4) Look through the firing pin hole until you see the dot that you drew on the wall centered in the barrel. Prop the gun so that the dot stays centered in the barrel as you look through the firing pin hole.
(5) Now, assuming you have the gun properly rested, look to see where your sights are aiming. If they are aligned on the dot (ignoring elevation), then the problem is you. If not, then the sights are at fault.
It's basic bore sighting, but it is a bit more complex with a revolver.
As an addendum, you could also perform the same function without completely disassembling the revolver by using a small dental mirror to look through the barrel.
(1) Completely disassemble the revolver to bare frame. (This assumes you don't have a frame mounted firing pin.)
(2) Draw a dot on the wall.
(3) If possible, have a means of securing the gun, such as a small machinist's vice or propped up between some books or what have you.
(4) Look through the firing pin hole until you see the dot that you drew on the wall centered in the barrel. Prop the gun so that the dot stays centered in the barrel as you look through the firing pin hole.
(5) Now, assuming you have the gun properly rested, look to see where your sights are aiming. If they are aligned on the dot (ignoring elevation), then the problem is you. If not, then the sights are at fault.
It's basic bore sighting, but it is a bit more complex with a revolver.
As an addendum, you could also perform the same function without completely disassembling the revolver by using a small dental mirror to look through the barrel.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
IMHO it doesn't matter if it's a belly gun. Sights are put on firearms for a reason, and hitting 3 inches to the left at 10 yards is not acceptable. I would return it to the manufacturer for correction. Heck, I once had a $200 (new) Armscor M206 that was about that far off, and Armscor replaced the gun under warranty, no questions asked.
g.willikers
New member
Dunno, but this sounds like a classic case of small revolver-itis.
Do the silhouette test.**
Then talk.
**(This simple test will reveal any number of things -- surprisingly including shooter dual sight alignment error)
(And anyone trying to take a head shot with a snubnose/Chief Special
beyond ~10 feet needs to have his head examined)
Pun very specifically intended
Then talk.
**(This simple test will reveal any number of things -- surprisingly including shooter dual sight alignment error)
(And anyone trying to take a head shot with a snubnose/Chief Special
beyond ~10 feet needs to have his head examined)
Pun very specifically intended
Holy carp..
I carried a Smith 36 as a back up for a number of years. I used to shoot our standard Qual course (not the BUG course) all the time with it.
That included 7 YARD (not feet) headshots and COM shots out to 25 yds. Always passed the course. Not with perfect scores but high 70%, low 80%
That gun would hit dead on POA/POI at 7 yds with a 158gn swc/hp. Im talking put a hole exactly where the top of the front sight was when the shot broke.
If you claim a J frame wont shoot accurately, id suggest getting some training and learn how to use those little sights and control that trigger.
I carried a Smith 36 as a back up for a number of years. I used to shoot our standard Qual course (not the BUG course) all the time with it.
That included 7 YARD (not feet) headshots and COM shots out to 25 yds. Always passed the course. Not with perfect scores but high 70%, low 80%
That gun would hit dead on POA/POI at 7 yds with a 158gn swc/hp. Im talking put a hole exactly where the top of the front sight was when the shot broke.
If you claim a J frame wont shoot accurately, id suggest getting some training and learn how to use those little sights and control that trigger.
Give me a break.
I own TWO J-frames
One I gave to my daughter.
I know well what they (and she/I) will do.
Don't even think about a head shot in a high stress/combat situation.
I say (again)for the OP: Put just the front sight (only) in mid silhouette at 3 yards and show us the group location.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
mehavey said:
25 feet, Armscor M206 .38 Special snubnose. Yes, it's a six-shot revolver -- two shots went into one hole, and I'm pretty certain it wasn't the flyer.
Last edited:
And this is a fixed-site Vaquero at 25 yards/single-hand/off hand:
Can it be done: Yes
Should it ever be done/high-stress/combat/with catastrophe as the failure mode: No
I'm still waiting for the OP's front sight blade test results.
So far it's just theory going back & forth
Can it be done: Yes
Should it ever be done/high-stress/combat/with catastrophe as the failure mode: No
I'm still waiting for the OP's front sight blade test results.
So far it's just theory going back & forth