Is there such thing as a Trust Your Life with it shotgun?

S

SaltyPirate

New member
Years ago I purchased my first Remington 870. I used high grade premium slugs and 00.

Winchester Double X High Velocity Buckshot. Federal Premium Vital-Shok Buckshot. Federal Power-Shok Buckshot.

With the first jam I thought the impossible just happened. Not a shotgun. Sure, maybe an aftermarket magazine in a pistol but not classic shotgun like the 870. I was so disappointed. I took it to a gunsmith who noticed the gun was practically brand new and said he can't seem to find anything wrong with it.

Everything deserves a second chance. Back at the range, more jamming. I was so disappointed I put it away and just wanted to get rid of it. I couldn't trust it. I haven't seen it in years now.

Ironically, my friend bought a new 870 Express Tactical and I gave him all the ammo I had for the shotgun. He experienced the same thing - jamming.

I told him not to use any of the ammo I gave him and try an entirely new batch. Same story.

I'm at a point where I want a shotgun again. But this time I am uneducated about shotguns. I can honestly, really say I've never had a handgun fail on me, ever. Almost my entire line of handguns are H&K, with one Glock in 10mm. But I've never had a malfunction, a missfeed. Maybe I've been lucky in that way. I've never used aftermarket magazines either.

Sometime later, I found a bunch, too many, of videos on YouTube about this 870 problem and how people used a Dremel to smooth out the bore. It's crazy. I don't know what kind of quality control is taking place for people to have to spend several hundred dollars on a shotgun to then have to play the gunsmith hat in order to clear a jammed cartridge so the shotgun could perform its sole function.

Now the question is, is there such a thing as an impeccable shotgun?

I've read stories of different variations of problems relating to the Mossberg 500 series as well. I have not looked into Benelli.

As pompous as the sounds, is there anything out there you could say that would be trouble free out of the box, properly maintained?

As cheesy as this sounds, the shotgun that goes bang everytime.

Thank you, all.
 
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Someone else who sleeps in bits? I lived in Canada for some 36 years, prior to moving to the USA. The laws on shotgun barrel lengths are different.
In the US 18" minimum Brl. lengths. In Canada, 14".
I had a 14" 870. That I bought with the 14" factory barrel installed. This was a second-hand sale from a buddy. The action was like glass! He had not shot it much. In fact, it was like new. First mod. I did, changed the factory wood stock for a Chote? pistol grip one. The front sight, just a brass bead. That I painted with white fridge paint. No, I have never had a malfunction, ever. Good for 100-yard slug hits on an IDPA target. It now sits in my Gun safe (But with an 18" barrel) waiting to pick up an Ithica 37 pump shotgun. An older model, hold the trigger back, and pump, fires on each forward rack!
The first one I fired, was at the City Island NYPD range. Very short barrel! And a very long story! One problem I have noticed with new to pump shotgun users, shooting it (Like a girl!) hesitant. Pull it back, slam it forward, like you are trying to rip it off the end!
If I was you, I would contact the factory, get permission to ship it back! I feel sure they could fix it.
 
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But this time I am uneducated about shotguns
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Shotguns need to be operated correctly. My first thought is that both cases, you and your friend, were user error. Get some professional training and you will most likely have a completely different experience.
 
Funny, one shotgun I would trust with my life, and have, would be a Remington 870. Also, MY 1100, a Browning BSS, a Browning BPS, a Winchester Model 21 or 23, a Benelli Montefeltro, a Mossberg 500, and I am sure I could add many more. I would add that I would check out the specific gun first.
 
Trust

I am surprised that the 870s were problematic. They did not get the reputation that they have by jamming.
I own at this point four pump shotguns..an Ithaca 37, two Mossbergs, and a Benelli Nova. I have used them a lot and never had a jam in any of them.
Pete
 
I agree with the above statements about operator error. I have to add that I've owned a number of Rem shotguns in my life (I'm old) and bought my last one about twenty years ago when I got an 870 Express at a big box store. Pure junk. I couldn't tell you how many times I saw them show up on a sporting clays field and failed. Again, this was with the Express models.....Remington's intro to very cheap shotguns made for a low price and sold at the big box stores.
 
Trust in Allah; but tie your camel !!!

As pompous as the sounds, is there anything out there you could say that would be trouble free out of the box, properly maintained?
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Probably not but you could say the same thing about anything you might use, to protect life and limb. :confused:

One important point that you did not mention was whether your 870 is an Express or Wingmaster. I suspect you are referring to an Express and these have given "some" folks, some problems. That said, I do own an Express that I would trust. …… :rolleyes:

I do my homework, maintain my equipment and say my prayers. ….. :cool:

Be Safe !!!
 
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Warhammer said:
Shotguns need to be operated correctly. My first thought is that both cases, you and your friend, were user error. Get some professional training and you will most likely have a completely different experience.
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Here's the bad part - (and this was my last use of it, the second attempt) - I had the two range masters try.

One said the same thing about filing it down, the other said send it in. Now before that I had only used to shotgun a few times, but what makes it even more bitter is that one of the range masters was a former Gunnery Sergeant.

It's been so long now it's got to be out of warranty and I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it to someone without letting them know up front.
 
Pahoo said:
Probably not but you could say the same thing about anything you might use, to protect life and limb. :confused:



One important point that you did not mention was whether your 870 is an Express or Wingmaster. I suspect you are referring to an Express and these have given "some" folks, some problems. That said, I do own an Express that I would trust. …… :rolleyes:



I do my homework, maintain my equipment and say my prayer. ….. :cool:



Be Safe !!!
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Express Tactical with 18.5" barrel.
 
Brit said:
Someone else who sleeps in bits? I lived in Canada for some 36 years, prior to moving to the USA. The laws on shotgun barrel lengths are different.

In the US 18" minimum Brl. lengths. In Canada, 14".

I had a 14" 870. That I bought with the 14" factory barrel installed. This was a second-hand sale from a buddy. The action was like glass! He had not shot it much. In fact, it was like new. First mod. I did, changed the factory wood stock for a Chote? pistol grip one. The front sight, just a brass bead. That I painted with white fridge paint. No, I have never had a malfunction, ever. Good for 100-yard slug hits on an IDPA target. It now sits in my Gun safe (But with an 18" barrel) waiting to pick up an Ithica 37 pump shotgun. An older model, hold the trigger back, and pump, fires on each forward rack!

The first one I fired, was at the City Island NYPD range. Very short barrel! And a very long story! One problem I have noticed with new to pump shotgun users, shooting it (Like a girl!) hesitant. Pull it back, slam it forward, like you are trying to rip it off the end!

If I was you, I would contact the factory, get permission to ship it back! I feel sure they could fix it.
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You're right. I see there's a lifetime warranty. I forget why at the time I did not send it in for warranty. I know I did contact them. Might have been the cost of shipping that deterred me, who knows, it was a while back. But I'll contact them.

Edit: I now remember that after contacting them they sent me some parts that I took two the gunsmith before my second attempt with it.
 
trust

I did not catch exactly what the problem was in the OP, but judging by the "polish the bore" comment , sounds like failure to extract. I have seen that using budget shells, from what the OP describes, sounds like he probably had quality ammo. The price point version of the 870, the Express model, seems particularly prone to this issue.

I would expect 100% reliability in about any manually operated actions, be it rifle or shotgun, that I was intending to use for SD. Anything less and it would get plumbed right or sold. I'd be more tolerant of a hobby gun. My experience with real 870's, either honest Wingmasters, or Police Specials, is fairly broad, and has been very positive. I have seen the carrier dog springs weaken and need replaced, and I have seen mag tube springs weaken on guns left "half loaded" in cruiser carry mode. I have also seen shell stops shot loose under heavy use at the academy or on LE guns left half loaded for extended periods (like, years).

Pump shotguns of reputable make have a near legendary reputation for reliability. Good semi handguns are reliable , but harder for most of us to shoot as well as any long gun. Of course, you can't really conceal a stocked shotgun either. Rem 870's and the Mossberg 88/500/590 family are fairly good bets for reliability and I would not hesitate on trusting either after some shooting to verify same.
 
Is there such thing as a Trust Your Life with it shotgun?
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Over the years I have seen many shotguns that are 100% reliable, so yes! In no particular order:
Browning A-5
Benelli impulse-operated shotguns
Remington 870 (NOT the Express)
Winchester Model 12
Winchester 1200-1300
Mossberg 500
Remington 31
Winchester 1897

Several things in common with all of these shotguns- they feed/extract absolutely positively every time, the hammers fall like they're trying to break something, and there are no little springs, latches, rubber o-rings, or plastic action parts (except the 500 trigger group).
 
Shotguns need to be operated correctly. My first thought is that both cases, you and your friend, were user error. Get some professional training and you will most likely have a completely different experience.
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Not only that but try a different brand of ammo. many of the steel based ammo expands upon firing and doesn't shrink back like brass does and gets stuck.
The 870 Wingmaster is about as good as it gets when it comes to a pump shotgun. If yours is an 870 Express, then you most likely have a slightly rough chamber adding to the extraction difficulty. If so, 0000 steel wool wrapped around a wooden dowel in a drill and some oil will polish the rough spots right out with a little time and elbow grease.
 
bamaranger said:
I did not catch exactly what the problem was in the OP, but judging by the "polish the bore" comment , sounds like failure to extract. I have seen that using budget shells, from what the OP describes, sounds like he probably had quality ammo. The price point version of the 870, the Express model, seems particularly prone to this issue.



I would expect 100% reliability in about any manually operated actions, be it rifle or shotgun, that I was intending to use for SD. Anything less and it would get plumbed right or sold. I'd be more tolerant of a hobby gun. My experience with real 870's, either honest Wingmasters, or Police Specials, is fairly broad, and has been very positive. I have seen the carrier dog springs weaken and need replaced, and I have seen mag tube springs weaken on guns left "half loaded" in cruiser carry mode. I have also seen shell stops shot loose under heavy use at the academy or on LE guns left half loaded for extended periods (like, years).



Pump shotguns of reputable make have a near legendary reputation for reliability. Good semi handguns are reliable , but harder for most of us to shoot as well as any long gun. Of course, you can't really conceal a stocked shotgun either. Rem 870's and the Mossberg 88/500/590 family are fairly good bets for reliability and I would not hesitate on trusting either after some shooting to verify same.
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I got a lot out of this and I'll probably have to read it again just to absorb more. Thank you for the sound advice.

Yeah, I'm not going to waste my time and sending this back and forth. I'll get something that brings with it some peace of mind.
 
Scorch said:
Over the years I have seen many shotguns that are 100% reliable, so yes! In no particular order:

Browning A-5

Benelli impulse-operated shotguns

Remington 870 (NOT the Express)

Winchester Model 12

Winchester 1200-1300

Mossberg 500

Remington 31

Winchester 1897



Several things in common with all of these shotguns- they feed/extract absolutely positively every time, the hammers fall like they're trying to break something, and there are no little springs, latches, rubber o-rings, or plastic action parts (except the 500 trigger group).
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I'll go through these. I'm well-versed with handguns but can honestly admit I haven't fiddled with shotgun interiors. I'll bring the interiors into focus when choosing the next one.
 
FITASC said:
Not only that but try a different brand of ammo. many of the steel based ammo expands upon firing and doesn't shrink back like brass does and gets stuck.
The 870 Wingmaster is about as good as it gets when it comes to a pump shotgun. If yours is an 870 Express, then you most likely have a slightly rough chamber adding to the extraction difficulty. If so, 0000 steel wool wrapped around a wooden dowel in a drill and some oil will polish the rough spots right out with a little time and elbow grease.
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That's exactly what plenty of YouTube videos indicate doing. Dozens of different videos regarding the 870 Express and this issue. They all got their Dremels out to smooth it out. That's unacceptable for me. It's a major flaw.

Now I've had a Kahr P380 which I had sent in to have it fluff and buff but that's just to accelerate the break-in on a micro pistol.
 
I agree, having to polish the chamber on a new shotgun should not happen. Unfortunately it does, and it isn't hard to fix. The 870 is one of the more bulletproof designs and I'd still rather buy a $300 870 Express and polish the chamber myself than pay $900 for the Wingmaster or another brand of shotgun at any price. The Wingmaster is pretty, but I'm not looking for pretty, and if I'm spending what they want for a Wingmaster I'll go to a semi-auto for a little more.

I've owned, or shot a couple dozen 870 Express shotguns. One had to have the chamber polished, but after that it was as good as anything.

Having to work on new guns to get them to run isn't new. It used to be a lot more common than today. In a way we've gotten spoiled by having most of them work out of the box anymore.

Is there such thing as a Trust Your Life with it shotgun?
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To the original question, yes. Most any of the major pump action shotguns will take more abuse and still work than just about any other design. I like Remington best all around, but there are other brands that have features that I like. I can make any of them work for me.

But there is a difference between reliability and durability. Pumps are the most durable and able to withstand abuse. But they require human interaction to function. It is the humans who fail. A quality semi-auto will be more reliable because it takes the human factor out of it. With that in mind I trust my Benelli semi auto as my "trust my life shotgun".
 
I've had a mossberg 500 for about 15 years, I bought a lightly used one from a pawnshop and I've never had a jam with it, and have fired only 1000 shells thru it in 15 years, but the action is smooooth and works perfectly. Prior to that, I had an old Remington Wingmaster 870 that I shot trap with, almost every thursday night, minimum 250 rounds per night (more if I made it to the shoot off at the end of the night), at least 40 weeks a year for over 5 years (plus skeet on weekends, sporting clays, turkey shoots and hunting). Over 50,000 rounds thru that poor old gun, never failed, never broke, never jammed except for an occasional ammo malfunction, the number of which I could count on one hand. So yes, there are reliable shotguns and in my lifetime I've had two that I would absolutely trust my life too.
 
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the less moving parts the better.
12ga stevens crackshot would be it.
put one in, cock it, pull the trigger.
then, use it as a baseball bat.
 
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