Is there a watch list?

I talked with a female FBI agent on the phone and told her my story. She looked me up on their computer system. She was able to tell me, and did tell me, every firearm that I had purchased for at least 10 years, then she caught herself and stopped. I have no idea if she could have gone back farther, but she named off every gun I had bought for 10 years prior to our phone conversation. Obvious to me that someone out there records firearm purchases and retains said records.
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I am rather curious as to how the FBI, ATF, or any other gov't agency would be able to know exactly what guns you'd purchased. When the NICS check is called in, the FFL only provides your personal info (name, birthdate, SSN, etc.) and whether the firearm purchased is a hand gun or long gun, but not the specific make, model, caliber, serial number, or anything else about the gun. All of that information is on the 4473, but that is retained by the dealer and is only given to the gov't when the dealer goes out of business.

Unless every single firearm you'd purchase over that 10 year period was from an FFL who had gone out of business by the time of the phone conversation or the ATF/FBI was secretly going to every FFL you'd purchased a gun from to review the 4473's you'd filled out (which would only seem plausible if they were watching you already), I don't see how they could possibly know exactly what guns you'd purchased. Going only on the info provided to them from the NICS call, the most they'd be able to determine is that you'd bought x number of long guns and/or y number of handguns. NFA items, of course, are a completely different kettle of fish and are, in fact, registered with the Feds. I suspect that if you're on the up and up with your story (and I have no reason to believe you're not) that there's more to it that you either aren't telling us or aren't aware of yourself.
 
In Connecticut, you need a CCW to buy a handgun from an FFL (not sure about private party sales). But it's a shall state and they give them out relatively easily after you jump through all their hoops. But every time you buy a handgun, the dealer has to call up the state police (I assume in addition to the feds). The state police record all you guns. So in CT, there is a list of all the handguns you own. A friend of mine had some issues so he went down to the state police and they showed him the list of all his handguns.

Now my guess is that Illinois would probably have a similar system. Mike38, are you sure you're not remembering it wrong? It would make more sense if the Illinois State Police or your Sheriff's office have a list. And considering how bad Illinois is to gun owners, it would seem very likely. Or perhaps the FBI has access to Illinois' list?

As an aside, in Rhode Island, state law makes any gun registration or governmental list of firearms you own illegal.
 
What my friend did was purchased 3 rifles at the same time. After he pass the background check the seller said now homeland security will be watching you.

Maybe just a joke..... sure made me think
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......either that or your friend was just trying to impress you with what a bad-azz he is.:rolleyes:
 
I'm sure the 4473s are kept on file
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At the FFL for twenty years.

If he ends his license the 4473s go to BATFE.

The bound book goes to BATFE when the license is terminated also.

I can only purchase one handgun a month here in VA, so someone is watching...
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The Virginia State Police.
They run the instant call system and keep the records.

After 30 days the record is deleted.

Get a CHP and the limit goes away.
 
Skadoosh: If you have a Va. CCW you can buy as many as you want in a 30 day period!! Very simple solution.
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The Virginia State Police.
They run the instant call system and keep the records.

After 30 days the record is deleted.
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You're both missing the point...
 
The "Red Dawn" scenario.

I would not care if the government, local or federal tracked my guns or not, it does not appear on my radar of concerns.

The price of fuel and electricity; now that's on my mind....
 
You're both missing the point...
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No, you do n ot have a point.

virignia has a one handgun a one handgun a month law, and it is enforeced by the state police as parts of the instant check system.

If you object to the law get it changed.
 
A Virginia resident can buy more than one handgun per month, they just have to fill out the form. Other than the form, there are all sorts of exceptions to the one handgun a month regulation.

www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_MultiplePurchase.shtm

"Virginia residents may apply for a Multiple Handgun Purchase Certificate at any State Police Division Headquarters, any State Police Area Office, or State Police Administrative Headquarters. You may also consult with your local police or sheriff’s department to determine if they are certified by the Virginia State Police to process these applications. Additionally, licensed firearms dealers may retain these applications for their customers."
 
I forgot.

Of course there's a watch list. What do think we're paying them for? NSA has the satellites watching our every move and recording the phone calls from the dealers to NICS. But like any government agency, they lose a lot of stuff, so I'm not worried. :)

John
 
I bet you they look into gun fourms today.
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I bet you are correct.

Incidentally, they looked at your emails today, yesterday, and going forward forever.

Same thing with your phone calls.

About the only thing they don't look at at a regular basis is your snail mail. They used to have to get a court order for that.

And you are probably on the TSA watch list. Just see what happens when you go to the Airport. The number of names not on the TSA watch list is actually smaller than the number of names on the watch list!!

It is called the Patriot Act boys.

As for firearms, it all depends on the state laws.
 
Multiple handgun purchases (two or more) within a 5 business day period from the same FFL requires the FFL to fill out an ATF Form 3310.4 and send it in. Those are tracked by the ATF to insure the buyer is not doing straw purchases.
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They barely have the manpower or resources to do even that.

Here's the reality, folks. The 4473 forms are kept on the dealer's premises. If they are turned over to the ATF, they go to a warehouse in West Virginia for storage.

There, they sit in that warehouse in boxes. Hopefully, the dealer kept them in some sort of order when he sent them in. Probably not. (Some dealers soak the forms or deface them in other ways before relinquishing them.) In any case, the ATF is forbidden from collating them or entering them into a database. There's just boxes upon boxes, thousands of them, sitting in stacks.

Imagine having to do a trace under those circumstances. The agent would have to find Jim Bob's Firearms' boxes, extricate them from the stack, then go through the boxes manually, looking for the right form. Even legitimate traces are a logistical nightmare.

Of course, that assumes that the form is still there, and that the Jim Bob kept his books straight. The idea of even starting a database from that is very daunting, and the execution would be impossible.

As far as NICS, they don't know what gun (or guns) are on the form. They're only told "handgun," "long gun," or "other." Even that data is removed 24 hours after resolution.

Now, somebody's going to come along and claim that there's a super-secret conspiracy, and that the information's being kept. Let's think that one through. Our government can't keep stealth bomber designs and arms-smuggling schemes quiet for long. Would they really do a better job of enacting a covert nationwide firearms database without people finding out? Doubtful.
 
Now my guess is that Illinois would probably have a similar system. Mike38, are you sure you're not remembering it wrong? It would make more sense if the Illinois State Police or your Sheriff's office have a list. And considering how bad Illinois is to gun owners, it would seem very likely. Or perhaps the FBI has access to Illinois' list?
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Illinois has no such system. IL requires a FOID (Firearm Owner's Identification) card in order to legally posses or purchase firearms and ammunition. The guns you own, however, are not listed on the FOID card nor does IL have any sort of registration, at least at the state level. While IL does retain their archaic waiting periods (24 hours for a rifle or shotgun and 72 hours for a handgun), the NICS checks are still run through the federal system. IL also has no "x number of guns per month" limits at the state level. The only records required by IL state law beyond those required by federal law is that the seller in a private party transaction is required by state law to keep written records of the buyer's info, verify the buyer's FOID card, and keep a written record of the firearm make, model, and serial number for 10 years after the sale. The seller, however, is only required to keep the records himself and does not turn them over to the state.
 
if your LGS closes up, it is my understanding that all those 4473's are sent in to the FBI or ATF.
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Was not aware they even did that. When my dad shut down his FFl he was supposed to keep the records himself for X number of years. He did until the storage they were in was flooded and ruined them all. Then, after they dried out, they went in a burn barrel. But that was a long time ago things have apparently changed.
 
"They may take note of you if you try to buy 20 Hi-Points at a time. Otherwise, you should be fine."

That's like $2,000!!!!!! lol

I've never heard them calling in and giving Make Model SN etc.

I do remember hearing from several people before I was going to get my Fl CCW was that they track your gun purchases. Have not found any proof to back that up.
 
Every state has different laws, and those which regulate the number of weapons sold to an individual, (one per month) may have electronic records "floating around" to enforce the limit.
Swampyankee: The state police record all you guns. So in CT, there is a list of all the handguns you own. A friend of mine had some issues so he went down to the state police and they showed him the list of all his handguns.
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I wouldn't say it's impossible that any agency would have a list.

As for Mike38, perhaps the person with your exact name and birthdate was already under investigation for some other crimes, and YOUR gun purchase information was given to the investigators by mistake, and filed under your SSN. They are human.
 
I terminated my FFL in 1991 and sent all my 4473's and my record book to Atlanta. This past year I received a letter from BATF requesting the disposition of a firearm sold to me by the manufacturer, Springfield Armory. I was also asked to turn in my log book and forms. When I stated I had already done so, and had the Certified Mail receipts to prove it, the woman replied "Oh well then we must have them somewhere, they are still working on getting them all organized". Which I took to mean electronically scanned, etc. In all honesty I don't think the BATF could possibly track me or any single person without one helluva good reason.
 
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