Is the Mosin Nagant still worth it?

It depends on why you want one. I bought one for $130 a few years ago and don't regret it. I enjoy it for the history and it's fun to shoot once in awhile. If I was looking for a budget rifle for hunting or some other purpose I would choose something else.
 
more derail

what starving, beaten, imprisoned, slave labor could turn out with worn out tolls they had no motivation to operate properly.
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Since there has been an abundance of history already in this thread.....would you take a moment and explain that quote to me.
The sense that I get was that the rifles were manufactured in prisons. Is that what was meant?
Pete
 
If the bolt is forced closed...the round could possibly have a out of battery explosion {OOB}, with the bullet exiting out of the base of the wooden forearm and possibly into the shooters support hand.
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I too am having a hard time picturing what you are describing.

If it is truly out of battery, the bullet probably isn't going anywhere. Metal shrapnel from the case possibly, wood splinters probably, but the bullet won't have bullet-like velocity and do bullet-like damage unless it is contained in a chamber/barrel.
 
1. Protruding, maladjusted firing pin slamfired the round when it was forced past rimlock and into the chamber, or

2. Short-stroking the bolt allowed a live round to remain in the chamber and the next round up rimlocked, and when rimlock was overcome by force, bullet of next round was driven with force into the primer of the chambered, but not locked, live round.

#2 is of course a potential issue with any push-feed system, and is not limited to the Mosin-Nagant.

Regards,

Josh
 
You cannot take two 1911s and expect to swap thumb safeties without a little fitting, same with the barrel, hammer sear, etc.
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Realizing its a bit of thread drift, but I have to speak to this..

You SHOULD be able to, IF things are in GI spec, you can. Sadly, with so many different makers of parts and guns today, and no one ensuring they match the original specs, the reality is you can't count on drop if fit and function.

In my GI days, we weren't taught squat about fitting parts. You had a bin full of spares and you just replaced the parts. Once in a while, you would get a part that would not drop in and function, when that happened, you tossed the part and put in another one.

You could take a dozen pistols completely apart, pile all the parts together, stir them around, and then build a dozen completely functional pistols out of them, NO FITTING.

Now I admit you will be hard pressed to do that with a dozen commercially produced 1911A1s from different makers today. You OUGHT to be able to, but you can't, because todays makers have "improved" things...:rolleyes:
 
reynolds357 said:
darkgael, many Mosins, along with everything else the Russian military used, were made with Gulag labor.
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So they imported Gulag prisoners to Tula and Izhevsk to manufacture rifles?

How about Remington and Westinghouse?

I'm seeing many anecdotal references to slave labor in Izhevsk only, but I've not been able to trace the source.

The Finns were not slaves and they only utilized the receivers -- mostly hex receivers, though there were 91/30 captures.

I'd really like to see hard evidence.

Regards,

Josh
 
44 AMP said:
Realizing its a bit of thread drift, but I have to speak to this..

You SHOULD be able to, IF things are in GI spec, you can. Sadly, with so many different makers of parts and guns today, and no one ensuring they match the original specs, the reality is you can't count on drop if fit and function.

In my GI days, we weren't taught squat about fitting parts. You had a bin full of spares and you just replaced the parts. Once in a while, you would get a part that would not drop in and function, when that happened, you tossed the part and put in another one.

You could take a dozen pistols completely apart, pile all the parts together, stir them around, and then build a dozen completely functional pistols out of them, NO FITTING.

Now I admit you will be hard pressed to do that with a dozen commercially produced 1911A1s from different makers today. You OUGHT to be able to, but you can't, because todays makers have "improved" things...
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Sir,

While I realize this was the case, there were things done by the military to ensure parts fit. For example, if I recall correctly (and I may not) the original blueprints specified a barrel link whose only function was to drop the barrel's lugs from battery.

Also, again if I recall correctly (it's been a couple years), the 1911 in the WWI era rode the link into battery and stood on the lugs, whereas by the 1911a1 they had the pin standing the link in some cases.

You'll have to double check me on this. I don't have a heck of a lot of time to go back and refresh my own memory right now.

Still, there were things done between the 1911 and 1911a1 to maximize "swappiness" of parts.

I recall 1911 Tuner (where has he been, anyway???) saying once that he learned to work on the things by necessity -- making them run in Vietnam when they happened into the hands of regular troops.

The bins you speak of are reminiscent of the way the Mosins were refurbished, and the results we see now.

They were taken apart, good parts went in one bin, bad parts were scrapped, and complete rifles were assembled using the mixed lots.

Some new parts were obviously included: Ejectors seem to be one part that were new. Sears were perhaps another, as there seems have been trigger fitting protocol so that the triggers didn't flop about.

I do know that these parts were fitted well by the Finns, though, to the point that almost everything was hand-fitted to a greater or lesser degree.

I guess maybe we shouldn't talk about the Finnish and Russian versions in the same post, but we kinda' find ourselves there, don't we?

The Finns showed what the Mosin could and should be. The refurbished Russian Mosins are only the starting points; they do need to be fitted.

Something strikes me here: Generally you can toss a bolt from another Mosin into pretty much any existing one and it will headspace correctly. The same cannot generally be said of Lee-Enfields due to their rear lugs, nor of Mausers due to their non-rimmed cases which headspace on the shoulders.

Regards,

Josh
 
Wow, this thread has gone 4 pages already. :eek:

Some good exchanges of information, to be sure, but let's summarize the bottom line:

1) Yeah, Mosins are low-budget mil-surplus junk.

2) For the pure collectors, and secondarily for those who shoot old-school rifles, the Mosins retain a minimal mil-surp value, but only if kept completely stock.

3) Spending $$$ to customize a Mosin is like throwing said $$$ into a raging wood-burning stove ... Stupid. :rolleyes:
 
44AMP, I caught that about the .45 too. I remember you saying you were a 45B. I was a 2111 and 45B to. The first time in I came across all manner of assembled .45 autos. There was some variation between the two, but mostly cosmetic. The parts on 1911's were to be replaced as found during normal inspection, and only if we had them on hand. The old thumb web pincher on the 1911 was a pain in the hand, but was allowable if replacement parts were not in the shop. The only modification that would take a 1911 out of the system to be repaired was a bad trigger. A 1911A-1 trigger will not work.

I also could not believe this thread was still running. I like to learn new things, so I looked up the Polish conversion to 8x57. Turns out it was a half baked idea born of desperation. Look it up. The time and effort to convert a factory rifle into a different caliber factory rifle is just ridicules.
 
I looked up the Polish conversion to 8x57. Turns out it was a half baked idea born of desperation.
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Another one along those lines is the German conversion of some Carcanos to 8mm Mauser. Realizing it was war, they were losing, and that changes the definition of acceptable risk, but to me that conversions is SCARY!! :eek:

As to variations in GI .45s, standard SOP since 1923 (26?) when the A1 was adopted has been that 1911s were to be maintained as needed with A1 parts.
 
Unbelievable thread here for sure. The first 4 posts should've taken care of this topic from the OP easily enough (IMHO). Personally, I handled ONE Mosin a number of years ago in Flagstaff, AZ, at a store with firearms for sale. There was a rotisserie type display with maybe two dozen MNs, which looked new, for sale for under 80 bucks (wow, I thought, what a deal...). I picked one up, shouldered and aimed it at a light on the ceiling of the store and put it back in the rack (don't even remember working the bolt; maybe should've checked...). My wife was skeptically eye-balling me as I scrutinized; I looked at her and just said, "nope." That was the last time I ever handled one, and my curiosity was completely satisfied.

I do understand the historical value/interest in any military firearm, and from a collector's view, too. For what you pay for one now (even for 80 bucks, IMO), though, find the used Savage as someone mentioned earlier in '06, or .270 or .308. Way better deal for the money and ammo availability.

there is a website for all the Mosin fans...

www.mosinnagant.net
 

Gunplummer:

Sir, with respect, I'm going to try this one more time in a slightly different way. This defines how I see 91/30 as compared to the Mauser 98:

1. Refurb Mosin-Nagant: 1. Fit action to stock, and/or shim. 2. Fit ejector and test function. Tweak extractor if needed. 3. Polish trigger 'group' or install 2-stage trigger. 4. Install improved front sight. 5. Ensure bolt striker knob/cocking piece is fitted to bolt body for smooth operation and ensure no sticky bolt due to ammo.

Test fire with hunting ammo of your choice, ensure 2.5MoA or better, and it's acceptable for deer to 150 or 200 yards.

2. Mauser 98-based: 1. Inspect bore. Likely discard military barrel for new barrel, else shorten military barrel and recrown. 2. Accra-Glas to sporter stock. 3. Drill and tap for 'scope. 4. Lap lugs, polish bolt. 5. Trigger work, maybe replace with aftermarket.

Fireform brass, load custom hunting ammo, ensure 1MoA or better, and it's acceptable to 400 to 500 yards.

In my eyes, it's what you expect from the platform. It's what you want your end result to be, and what you want to achieve.

The Mosin-Nagant can be made acceptable in less than a day. You can use Dykem on the lugs and generally find that they're both mating the same, or swap bolt heads until you find one that does. The floating bolt head design is a bonus in my opinion, as well as in correcting headspacing issues.

I do not expect the Mosin-based rifle to do the same things as well as the Mauser-based action rifle. However, neither do I expect a rifle I might build from a Mauser action to be as good at the stuff I expect from the Mosin.

In their original forms, I believe both were probably as good for their respective military roles. The later 91/30s -- not the M91 reworked into 91/30s, but purpose-built M91/30s -- were not quite as good as the first K98ks. The Mosin sights were probably better for battle, but not for target work.

But since we're talking sporters, it really depends on what you want your end result to be.

I really hope this clears my point-of-view up. When one talks "deer gun" in Indiana, he could be talking a smoothbore shotgun, lever-action pistol-caliber carbine, or large-bore AR.

It's a heck of a lot different than someone, say, in Arizona or Wyoming would think of when someone mentions "deer gun."

I have a respectable number of customers who set their Mosins up for hogs in thick brush. Some keep the bayonets on, too, to stick the hogs. The Mosin carbine is good in the brush, it seems. I've not pig hunted though I hear that they're moving into Indiana now, and I'd like to.

Regards,

Josh
 
I built a .45 on the first frame available (Essex). They took the specs off a 1911 print and I had to find a 1911 trigger. The A-1 trigger is too short to function properly. Same in the military. Other than that, there was no difference.
 
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