Is the .40 S&W REALLY dying?

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No its not.

Its likely still a distant second to the 9MM in popularity of centerfire handgun ammunition. The thing is there was this perception that it would surely pass 9MM at one point because so many police forces and federal agencies were using it.

I don't think 9MM was ever in danger. It is used by military forces the world over.

So the perception of .40 has changed. It was second to 9MM and its likely still second to 9MM. The incorrect perception that it would ever surpass 9MM has simply been abandoned.

No I did not hunt the numbers. I could be wrong.
 
I think it's getting largely dropped as a duty round, but there are enough handguns in circulation and enough people like it that there's no way it's going away. It's been in third place of the 9/40/45 trio in terms of sales, and I suppose it could slide a bit lower down the chart going forward. I have to think 380, 38 and 357 are pretty big sellers.
 
Even if LEA's stop using it, they will turn their .40 firearms around and sell them for rock-bottom prices to the general public. I'm guessing.

As for the round dying, I shoot 9mm three times more than I shoot .40 S&W. It isn't a dead round in my book but it's not getting much of a workout lately.

Still, if I'm shooting steel game targets, the .40 flips 'em over a lot more easily than the 9mm does!

--Wag--
 
In all seriousness I can fairly easily get .41 magnum, .45 GAP etc., .327 and those were definitely flash in the pan rounds.

If I was getting into shooting today for the very first time, I’d get a 9mm.

If I already had .40s......which I do......I wouldn’t lose any sleep about not having plentiful ammo availability for my lifetime and probably my kids.

Hell I can find 5.7x28 fairly easily and there are what, like 3 guns chambered in it????
 
40 S&W become more popular if a ineffective nationwide AWB with arbitrary 10 round mag limit and no grandfathering ever gets passed.

Limited to 10 rounds or less, many people might prefer bigger bullets.
 
CDW4ME said:
40 S&W become more popular if a ineffective nationwide AWB with arbitrary 10 round mag limit and no grandfathering ever gets passed.

Limited to 10 rounds or less, many people might prefer bigger bullets.
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Depends on the gun. Slim single stack for CCW? The 9mm is king, but a full size for home defense... yeah, maybe .40. Lately tho, I've concluded that if you reload, then for a full size handgun, skip the .40 and go straight to 10mm. More power with the full power loads, but still capable with the light 10mm loads.

I can't say I regret buying a Glock 35 brand new a few years ago, but if I had known at the time I was going to get into reloading, I would have gotten the Glock 40 MOS instead. I bought a 9mm barrel for the G35, nice to have the option of reliably shooting 9mm in it, don't have that capability with the 10mm Glocks.
 
Is the .40S&W REALLY dying?
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Yes.

Perhaps not quite as fast as staking Dracula in his coffin or as dramatically as watching the Titanic sink-n-snap like an iced-over twig, ... but it's definitely heading toward that big door with the sign over it that says: 'This Way to No Longer Relevant.'

Lately tho, I've concluded that if you reload, then for a full size handgun, skip the .40 and go straight to 10mm. More power with the full power loads, but still capable with the light 10mm loads.
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Yep.

On the one hand, you've got LE's bum-rush to re-embrace the 9-minimeter; on the other hand, the 10mm AUTO is in full resurgence with more pistols and revolvers being chambered for it than at anytime since the Bren Ten's demise in 1987. (Not to mention, more real 10mm loads are being offered by various ammo makers).

9mm, 10mm, or .45acp ... So with all those bases covered, the .40's really got nowhere to go.

Hence, the massive dumpage of said round by the U.S. shooting populace continues.
 
DirtyHarold said:
I suddenly heard this over the last month or so which I found a little upsetting because I only own one 9mm and several 40s. Apparently police and secret service or whatever are all just moving to 9. Then I thought about it, 45 isn’t dead, 10mm isn’t dead, 357 sig isn’t dead (it’s less popular but making a comeback), etc.

What is everyone’s thoughts on this?
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I love it! I was able to buy a new M&P40 2.0 Compact for under $300.

Honestly, I really don't care what LEO are doing cause I'm not in the Cop business. If I want to conceal a 329pd loaded for armored grizzlies - I do. If that bucks the trend - oh well....
 
agtman said:
Yes.

Perhaps not quite as fast as staking Dracula in his coffin or as dramatically as watching the Titanic sink-n-snap like an iced-over twig, ... but it's definitely heading toward that big door with the sign over it that says: 'This Way to No Longer Relevant.'



Yep.

On the one hand, you've got LE's bum-rush to re-embrace the 9-minimeter; on the other hand, the 10mm AUTO is in full resurgence with more pistols and revolvers being chambered for it than at anytime since the Bren Ten's demise in 1987. (Not to mention, more real 10mm loads are being offered by various ammo makers).

9mm, 10mm, or .45acp ... So with all those bases covered, the .40's really got nowhere to go.

Hence, the massive dumpage of said round by the U.S. shooting populace continues.
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Not all LE is rushing back to 9mm, still a good amount of departments still using .40 and probably will continue to as .40 is just better against barriers and a lot of the cops who started on .40 are so use to it they're not switching back.

The market is shrinking, but it's not going to die. Everybody who says it's dead doesn't understand that as demand drops, so will prices because supply is so high. People will see used .40 pistols selling for $200 to 250 and buy them up, especially when ammo prices are a couple bucks more for 50 rds compared to 9mm.
 
Everybody who says it's dead doesn't understand that as demand drops, so will prices because supply is so high. People will see used .40 pistols selling for $200 to 250 and buy them up, especially when ammo prices are a couple bucks more for 50 rds compared to 9mm.
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I disagree. I watch both a lot of online retailers and local stores. I've seen this happen, and I've seen those pistols still sitting.
 
I just picked one up (M&P 2.0) because the deals on new and used guns are outstanding.

It's a very effective round and is a proven duty caliber. Is it exceedingly better than 9mm? Probably not.

But folks act like it suddenly lost all it's capability or something. It's still more powerful than 9mm (and some .45 loads), and always will be.

So while it's not as popular as it was years ago, it's not going away anytime soon. There are a LOT of handguns and even carbines out there chambered in .40 S&W.
 
Orion6 said:
I just picked one up (M&P 2.0) because the deals on new and used guns are outstanding.

It's a very effective round and is a proven duty caliber. Is it exceedingly better than 9mm? Probably not.

But folks act like it suddenly lost all it's capability or something. It's still more powerful than 9mm (and some .45 loads), and always will be.

So while it's not as popular as it was years ago, it's not going away anytime soon. There are a LOT of handguns and even carbines out there chambered in .40 S&W.
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The carbines in .40 are dying fast, Ruger hasn't bothered putting the .40 in their PC carbine yet and I don't think they ever will. The 9mm in a carbine is just better and having shot my .40 Kel Tec Sub 2000 vs a pistol braced AR in 9mm... the .40 is a teeth rattling, shoulder bruising experience thanks to the blowback action.

Agree with you on everything else.
 
TunnelRat said:
I disagree. I watch both a lot of online retailers and local stores. I've seen this happen, and I've seen those pistols still sitting.
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The market is oversaturated right now, those who have the handguns they want aren't looking for more. Me personally, I'm not looking to buy another .40 simply because I already have two.

Give it time. As young men become adults in their 20's and want a good gun cheap (cuz people in their 20s don't get paid crap) they'll be buying them.

Not saying that it's going to lead to a resurgence of the .40 in the civilian market, but the rumors of the .40's death are greatly exaggerated. The best comparison I can make to the stock market when it comes to .40 is it's in a "correction."
 
Everyone, and I do mean nearly everyone, says the 9mm has improved so much it is as good as the 40 & 45. I never hear why all this "new bullet technology" didn't improve the 40 S&W or the 45 ACP at the same time. Funny how that works to justify shooting a lighter recoiling and cheaper round.

Dave
 
Dave T said:
Everyone, and I do mean nearly everyone, says the 9mm has improved so much it is as good as the 40 & 45. I never hear why all this "new bullet technology" didn't improve the 40 S&W or the 45 ACP at the same time. Funny how that works to justify shooting a lighter recoiling and cheaper round.

Dave
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Compare any of them to a rifle. There’s just not much difference when you frame them against something materially more powerful, and lots of folks including me don’t think the minor difference is worth the greater recoil (especially in smaller guns), higher cost or lower capacity. 40 isn’t going anywhere because there are tons of them in circulation but I do see it sliding back farther behind 9mm and 45.
 
Dave T said:
Everyone, and I do mean nearly everyone, says the 9mm has improved so much it is as good as the 40 & 45. I never hear why all this "new bullet technology" didn't improve the 40 S&W or the 45 ACP at the same time. Funny how that works to justify shooting a lighter recoiling and cheaper round.

Dave
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Yep. And many of the good bullets available today were around when the 40 was still highly popular. Though those bullets didn't make the 9 as good as the 40 back then, some seem to think it does today, especially when coupled with a few more rounds from a 9 magazine.

I guess if you consider the 9 up to the task, a few more rounds in the mag make it more desirable for many shooters.

If I were choosing a cc pistol, I might go with a 9. But I find them boring to shoot and one seldom makes it into my range bag.
 
IdaD said:
Compare any of them to a rifle. There’s just not much difference when you frame them against something materially more powerful, and lots of folks including me don’t think the minor difference is worth the greater recoil (especially in smaller guns), higher cost or lower capacity. 40 isn’t going anywhere because there are tons of them in circulation but I do see it sliding back farther behind 9mm and 45.
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If it's all about cost and capacity, then the question should be is .45 dying, not .40.

.45 has the lowest capacities, the most bullet drop, and the highest cost for ammo out of the three.
 
.40 is “superior” to .45acp in every way...

It’s supersonic “CRACK!!!” is far mor deafening than a subsonic “boom”

Muzzle flip is “twist in you hand” rather than “raises your arm.” That .40 gets going fast and the resulting impulse simply is more because science.

You feel the shock wave as a slap your face instead of your chest

You get to spend more time talking about “kabooms”

You irritate more guys at the indoor range

There are a lot more folks trying to sell their .40s right now.

My experience was with a Glock 22 LS and a .40 Kel-Tec sub 2000 (My dad’s) vs a .45 bullseye gun so my hatred of .40 is not entirely fair, the power factor in the .40s was a lot higher.

That said, no one is going to volunteer to stand in front of either. Even “just” a 200g swc tootling around at 800fps. If it was a video game, I would prefer the .40 because of it’s statistics. In reality, it was a little hard to let my .45 go while I was pleased as punch that a fella wanted my .40 race gun.

Is it dead? Nope. It’s a Bas-a** load for a bad-a** pistolero. I think a lot of people find out they are not that bad-a** after a few trips to the range.

Dead? 32-20 is dead. I want one.
 
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