Is Tai Chi Worth a D@*n??

R

RazorsEdge

New member
Hollywood and Madison Avenue are currently keen on Tai Chi, the Eastern "exercise" art.


This is where a bunch of folks move slowly like they are conducting martial arts, like they are wiping a whale's butt in thin air.


I've got a really blunt question. What does Tai Chi do for you? It looks to me like it doesn't do a d@*n thing!

(Please put in terms Texas redneck can understand.
Non of that get you in mystic touch with the universe stuff, only Coors longnecks and Emmy Lou can do that.)
 
Anything that gets those old folks up off their butts and away from the TV for awhile is useful. Also, it's a good way to defend against a slow motion attack.
 
any martial art/exercise is worth a damn. There are different martial arts because there are different people with different philosophies and tastes. You find the one that works for you and gives you what your looking for. If Tai Chi gives you what you are looking for then it is worth for you to persue.
 
The fa ching of tai chi chuan is by far the most powerful and most subtle of martial arts techniques. If you're curious ask one of the "old folks" to do some push-hands with you. Tai chi done at full speed is simply devastating.

Just my $.02 worth...
 
"like they are wiping a whale's butt in thin air"

I suspect if you visited a skilled practitioner and confronted him/her in that manner you'd find out pretty quickly how effective it can be, should he/she be so inclined.

of course, I'm knowingly losing points just by replying like this, if you take my meaning. if not, that's pretty significant, too.
 
Never done it myself, but I know people who have. What I've found is that like most MA, it's all in how you practice it.

If all you ever do is go through the slow motion excercises without ever doing two man drills, sparring, push hands practice, hitting targets (heavy bags, etc.), then all it will really be for you is a good form of excercise. When practiced as a martial art, though, it can be effective.

So I've been told, anyway! ;)

Regards,
Matt Wallis
 
Well I will try to put it in terms a red necked texan can understand. :D

First it isn't intended to make you look or feel like a rutting bull. If that is your goal I suggest the Yanomamo art of Chest Pounding [which is sort of like an Irish duel].

It really teaches how to move quickly/reflexivly & to stay balanced. Real speed with physical movement is gained by doing the motion, swinging a bat/blocking a punch/etc, with as little wasted motion and effort as possible. Practicing at slow speed allows for greater precision since it is easier to pay attention to following the correct form [ie efficent movement].

Push hands is part of Tai Chi. When you do push hands you are learning to block and counter attacks by feel alone.

If that wasn't clear enough consider this. Bruce Lee's core art was Wing Chun which includes what is called sticky hands fighting. Sticky hand techniques are very similar to push hands practice except it is more violent. It has a different philosophy. In wing chun you try to trap your opponents limbs [basically you block and try to push opponents hand arm down so you can punch them in the head]. In Tai Chi you might strike your opponent but that wouldn't be your only or main goal.
 
My original post was deliberately provocative, in order to provoke answers. But my question is sincere.

I have seen a lot of Tai Chi books at Barnes and Noble/Border's, and they all seem pretty vague. I have yet to see one that actually breaks through and deals directly with a whip-butt scenario.

One of my core beliefs is that all training should be as realistic as possible, and should never pretend to have an added benefit unless that benefit is directly trained.

I am seriously considering Tai Chi, and a reply like "just try it and see if you like it" doesn't fly.

I want somebody to go on record and say,

a) "Yes, Tai Chi has made me immensely stronger."

b) "Using Tai Chi alone, I whipped three outlaw bikers."

c) "Tai Chi has increased my cardio-vascular, and lengthened my favorite organ."
 
RZ: I think part of your problem is that your looking at Tai Chi for the wrong things.

a) For physical strength you need to do physical conditioning.

b) No martial art in the world is going to let you take three unarmed opponents that are sober if there is anything like similar strength involved.

c) As for lengthening organs I suggest surgery as the quickest and most effective approach.
 
Dear Glad,

Thanks for your honest response. Having eliminated what Tai Chi doesn't do, would someone SPELL OUT what it does do?
 
I think the core problem here is that most of the Barnes and Noble books don't say much about pushing hands, much less working on the heavy bag.

I guess it depends on which instructor you get.
 
It's likely that those books are about pure Tai Chi which has no more to do with self-defense than Yoga does. Tai Chi is just about physical, mental, and spiritual well being. What you're looking for is a book on Tai Chi Chun (Chuen, Chuan, etc.) which is "Tai Chi + Fist"... or the martial form of Tai Chi. I have a friend who practices it at a high level and is quite impressive in terms of speed, agility, flexibility... not so much strength except when doing some psuedo-supernatural demos, including stomping the ground and making it shake (which would be no big deal except for the fact we're on concrete), he's 100 lbs lighter than me and the best I can do is hurt my shins.

Of course YMMV.
 
Mr. Paladin,

Thanks for the clarification. You have great understanding of the oriental mind (despite the rather stereotypical presentation of "Hey Boy").
 
Tai Chi is not a strength based MA, like one of the arts that incorporates strikes as it's main for of offense.

Tai Chi works with redirecting your opponents momentum and using it against him, similar to aikido. That being said, it is a good form of exercise. Good for flexibility, cardio vascular, muscle toning...etc.

Regarding the books at B&A. If you get a book on any martial arts, it's very unlikely to teach you effectively in terms of using that art as a fighting skill. You really need to find an instructor who understands how to use a particular MA as a form of self defense.
 
Wow! Something on here I finally know something about! (I usually just read the posts here, since my knowledge of close quarters combat is fairly limited)

I practice both Tai Chi and its martial form, Tai Chi Chuan, specifically the Northern style Yang form as taught by Master Cheng Tsang Lu.

Here's a bit of info on the form. Hope it helps answer some questions:

Tai Chi consists of a specific set of exercises, performed slowly and rhythimically. These patterns have been set over thousands of years, and incorporates meditation with exercise therefore aiding in reducing stress levels. Most of the movements are directly incorporated into the martial form, Tai Chi Chuan.

Studies of Tai Chi have proven it to be beneficial to both the cardio-respiratory and musculoskeletal systems. Its excellent for lowering your overall blood pressure, and greatly increases flexibility and strength. Because it is non-jarring on the joints, it is a wonderful exercise for people who otherwise cannot engage in other forms of cardio-vascular strength training.

The greatest benefits I have derived from Tai Chi Chuan is the ability to focus and remain calm. Really, though, the martial form is just the same and similar moves speeded up and applied in a self defense application.

I combined this with kick-boxing. Though a handgun is still my preferred method of self defense (along with "run screaming the other way") its nice having a backup.

Hope that answered some questions for you.
 
T'ai Chi

All depends on what you want to get out of the "style" of martial arts.
And also how much time and work you want to put in to it.
I've been in the martial arts for over 40 years now and at my age...I might work more in some form of "internal" martial arts.
For self-defense?????Gun-foo and Sprint, Fool works real good for me.
I have used unarmed self-defense up to three months ago...including guys with guns...so far so good....at my advanced age...I just want to use things that are simple and easy to use.
 
I have a question too, regarding the martial use of Tai Chi.

I keep hearing that, "Really, though, the martial form is just the same and similar moves speeded up and applied in a self defense application." I also have heard this said before about Tai Chi.

What I would like to know, though, is do you ever do actually do that? Those of you who practice the "martial" style of Tai Chi, how much have you actually practiced the moves at full speed or with a partner or against a target/heavy bag? Is that a part of your training, and if so, how much time would you guestimate you spend on that stuff versus the forms?

Regards,
Matt Wallis
 
Glamdring:
Masaaki Hatsumi (current Bujinkan grandmaster) defeated two sword-wielding yakuza thugs in Japan.

To****sugu Takamatsu, his teacher, was tried for killing 5 sword-wielding Chinese in the '30's. I believe that neither of these two gentlemen were facing drunken opponents, and I also believe they were unarmed.

One of the most dangerous people I know is almost exactly my size, perhaps two or three pounds lighter. (I'm currently about 146.) Manaka Unsui is not much bigger than I. Recently, he was toying with the Japanese full-contact heavyweights. He is nowhere near 170 lbs.

The point is, there are folks out there, little folks, who train a lot. They probably have no interest whatsoever in fighting you, but it is always arrogantly silly to assume that, just because you can't do a thing, that others cannot either.

I can't skate worth a damn, am not currently a good long-range shot, and cannot fly a plane. I do not assume others cannot either. Years ago, I watched someone touch off three shots from a .45 Colt in less than half a second, timed (popped 3 widely spaced balloons, btw). I'm pretty reluctant now to say what others cannot do.
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RazE,
If you're willing to put a decent amount of time and energy into it, martial arts can be very positive, if one finds a good teacher. Have realistic expectations, and give a realistic effort. Have fun!
 
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