is something wrong with DPMS?

S

Silent Titan

New member
i have known a few people that own dpms rifles and are very happy with them. i dont own an ar-15 but am getting ready to buy one soon and i have to wonder why i see so many posters bashing dpms for the guns they build. i have no position on this topic cause i dont own one but is the "they fail dont buy one" reputation the way it really is?

i have very few things that i want for my ar-15 that are set (daniel defence chf goverment proflile 16" bbl., and a RRA two stage trigger are what will be on my gun), but i have to wonder if a dpms lower would ruin my plans.

i ask because i know a guy that get awsome deals from dpms and a recon scout has alot for the asking price vs a full on great brand (nov, DD, colt s&w)

can a first time buyer use this as a jumping off point for an ar-15 and still be happy with the gun years later?
 
I would grab a Stag Arms (Continental Machine) lower for probably the same money. Mil-spec size buffer rube... staked ring, same lowers Noveske uses last I heard. CM makes parts for a lot of other AR brand names, and parts for M16's originally.... a long with Aerospace stuff.
 
If you consider S&W among the better brands (I won't argue with you on that), then you might take a few minutes and check out there recently released M&P 15 Sport. It is no frills.....and the price is most likely less than the DPMS you are considering. Cabela's was selling them a couple of weeks ago for $599 less a $100 coupon....so $499 for a S&W AR-15 lifetime guarantee, etc. Hard to go wrong on that deal. Just something to think about if you are shopping around.
 
I heard great reviews about DPMS for a while... so I ended up getting one. an LR308-AP4. And it has been great. I HAVE had a failure with it though. A FTF the round's primmer was dented but it did not fire. I tried it again and it fired the second time... that actually happened twice. I guess all it would need is a stiffer hammer spring. but other than that my DPMS has been awesome.

I havent shot it much though... so I'm not really gona be much of a help. I bought mine because I was hearing great things at the time. I'm not disappointed though.
 
I just saw az's post... I agree. Everything I've heard lately says that the S&W M&P 15's are the best value out there... I'd just buy one of them outright. They put alot of work in to releasing a high end AR. I mean it's Smith and Wesson.... They did alot of research and their top priority was reliability. They chose the best parts they could find to put in their AR's and they make them very well. I've never heard a bad thing about an M&P 15! If I were to buy an AR-15. It would either be an LWRC (which is $2000-3000) or an S&W M&P 15.
 
That is a great price for a S&W MP15,I hear Cabelas calling my name! lol
As far as the DPMS I have a LR308AP4 carbine very accurate,i've had the gun over 6 years now without any problems fit and finish seems very good also.In the ar15 dept I have a couple colt ar15's which have been very reliable and accurate since the early 90's
 
DPMS firearms are often out of spec, poor materials, untested, and underperforming.


The price of just buying a lower for $80 and a lower build kit from palmetto for a little more then adding on an upper from bravocompanyusa is almost always cheaper and will perform top notch.
 
More praises of BCM here. Most lowers are of same spec let alone quality, I've only had one lower so far that hasn't had a tight fit with the upper and that was a Del-Ton lower and it's on my BCM build. My RRA lower and T-15 lower are almost as tight as a politicians purse strings when you ask for charity donations.

That said, I have a DPMS LPK in the RRA lower and it's ok for a single stage. Lots of creep and fairly long compared to the 2 Del-Ton LPK's in the other lowers. They also have a bunch of creep before a break but they are smoother and a little shorter on the pull. I have a spring upgrade I have yet to install in one of these, but they work well for what they are now: just fun rifles.
 
I have two DPMS rifles/ One is .223 and the other is .308.

The only issue was some faulty mags for the .308. DPMS replaced them and have had no issues since. I also have a Bushmaster that has no issues either.

Geetarman:D
 
occasionally, i have purchased minor parts from them at the minnesota gun shows they frequent. it seems to take a purchase every couple of years to remind my why i shouldnt, lol. out of spec is polite.....bobn
 
i have very few things that i want for my ar-15 that are set (daniel defence chf goverment proflile 16" bbl., and a RRA two stage trigger are what will be on my gun), but i have to wonder if a dpms lower would ruin my plans.
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Since you're doing a build and using a Daniel Defense upper it would bother me that the lower said DPMS. Are you talking about a stripped lower or complete DPMS lower upgraded to the two stage trigger? If complete, then I'd be concerned about the commercial diameter receiver extension and standard weight buffer. If stripped, then the DPMS lower (with quality RE/H buffer and LPK) should be good enough but doesn't really put that stamp of approval on a quality build. (Not that that matters, but for a few bucks more I'd like a different rollmark.)

How much is your price for the DPMS lower, maybe you can do almost as well with something else?
 
My hesitance re: DPMS has to do with the bolts. I've read a bunch of instances of them being poorly heat treated and breaking at the cam pin hole under heavy use. I've also used a few of their LPKs, and they don't go together quite as easily as those from companies viewed with more affection; work fine for the most part though (had issues with the FCG pins walking, and yes, they were installed properly).

For a plinker, they're fine. If you think you might trust your life to it, do yourself and pay a bit more for higher quality.
 
DPMS rifles are fine for plinkers. I have one and it's never given any trouble except for frequent short-strokes with wolf ammo. however I wouldn't expect it to hold up for a high-round class or competition.
 
I read the claim "out of spec".Can you give one example of taking a blueprint of specifications,and using appropriate,calibrated inspection tools give us real hard data of being out of spec?I am perfectly willing to accept inspection reports that say a part is bad.Show me enough,and I will agree DPMS is selling too many bad parts.I have no loyalty to DPMS.I do have a DPMS rifle that I am happy with.
I'm not even going to say DPMS is best value.I don't know.Why would Brownell's and Midway choose to market DPMS as a primary brand if it is so bad?
Talk is cheap.Please give data to back up an"out of spec" claim.
 
DPMS has a very large following at Rio Salado where I shoot. Many of the guys I worked with at Boeing before I retired have multiple copies of DPMS rifles.

I got into them from their experiences. Their guns work just fine. I am happy with mine and would buy them again in a New York minute.

The company has treated me fairly in my dealings with them.

My guns were bought when DPMS was DPMS and not owned by someone else.

I have not bought any guns from them for a couple of years or so but mine work fine. The only thing I did to mine was to change out the triggers. I have Timney triggers in two DPMS guns and one Bushmaster.


My Bushie is in the bedroom as I type this with a charged magazine. I have absolute faith in the gun.

Geetarman:D
 
Please give data to back up an"out of spec" claim.
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There's a couple different kinds of "out of spec."

The way I use the term, I refer to things like parts fitting together and holes being in the right place. An out of spec lower won't work with properly spec'd parts. In this sense, DPMS is indeed to spec.

However, I think the way the term was used is referring to the TDP for the M4 rifle, that is, being as close as possible to the military M4 specification (no rifle easily legal to own is TRUE milspec thanks to the full auto). This involves things such as types of metal used, heat treatment of parts, individual or batch inspection of parts, etc. In this respect, DPMS is not "to spec" due to their batch testing of parts and a few other minor details. Now, it is VERY important to note here that not being to spec may not be a horrible thing. There are some makers who are not to spec because they go to a higher standard (hammer forging as opposed to button rifling in the barrel). There are others who are not to spec because they use less expensive parts (the difference between the commercial and mil-spec carbine stock tubes is one, albeit a pretty benign one).

DPMS tends to be more on the budget side of the ledger, and that means they deviate from the standard spec sheet in order to cut costs. Sometimes that's of very little importance (if you don't remove the FSB, does parkerizing under it really matter?). Sometimes it means a layer of quality control that can lead to earlier failure (batch magnetic particle inspection of bolts let one with microscopic cracks slip through, and it lets go at the 2000 round mark instead of 10,000). You can look up "THE CHART" if you like, and it will show the differences, but those differences don't matter for every single buyer.

While their parts are generally good, there's a couple places where I might not fully trust them. If a buddy were to buy a DPMS for a good price, I would probably recommend he/she obtain a good quality bolt carrier group just as insurance; the rest of the rifle is probably just fine. However, if one was to purchase a new rifle, I would recommend that one look at just how good a price it is and what might be available for just a touch more depending on usage. I'm not saying you have to drop $1200 or your rifle is worthless. I'm saying that use vs. cost vs. competing products also need to be weighed.

And for the record, I just built a rifle to shoot the Aguila SSS 60 grain .22LR rounds. It has a DPMS LPK and barrel... if I thought they were garbage, I wouldn't have bought them. But then again, this isn't my go-to AR.
 
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