Is it justified to shoot someone who is throwing rocks at you?

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Several years ago in a neighborhood in South Florida there were a gang of kids that got their kicks tossing bricks and cinder blocks from pedestrian over-passes that straddled I-95 or the Turnpike down into oncoming cars. At first there were some damaged cars and then one day a cinder block goes thru a windshield and kills a woman while she is driving. If memory serves me, she was pregnant. Is this murder or just some stupid little gang-banger playing?

Same scenario plays out in the border incident. Rocks tossed at armed agents don't mean anything until someone gets hit and seriously injured or killed? Are the Mexican kids just playing or is it their intention to do bodily harm?

In my book, rocks coming at me might as well be hand grenades. I am answer deadly threat with deadly threats of my own. It is a classic me or them scenario. I think the Border Patrol Agent should be given a medal to taking out someone that could have caused the death of fellow Agents. Good riddance to bad news.
 
Interesting opinions. I am left thinking it really does not matter what the majority of opinions here are. My thought is how might the local District Attorney react ? Even forgetting international, and Federal, involvement, the local jurisdiction will most likely result in a citizen at a minimum obtaining a lawyer to reply to the District Attorney. How much will this cost ? If the DA does not agree with 'Justifiable Homicide', how much will it then cost ? Depending upon where you live, what chances to you have of being found innocent in your jurisdiction ? Even though California does not have a duty to retreat law, I'd hate to be in this type scenario in Marin County.

Backing up might be the prudent thing to do, even if you believe you are justified in 'Blowing the punk' away.
 
Why is it that people think the LEO should back away? Their job is to ENFORCE the law. That does not mean running from some a$$hole with a rock, knife or gun. How do you enforce the law if you run away from the criminals? The people that think they should let the detainee go unless he is a serial killer or some such BS, how exactly do you propose the LEO find that out? Ask him?
LEO: "hey, are you a dangerous criminal bent on causung harm and terror to others?"
Criminal: " Uh, no. No I'm not sir."
Clears it up for me. How about you? Hell, Ted Bundy( well known serial killer, raped and murdered 35+ women) was caught because of a traffic stop. When confronted he tried to fight the cop and run. Should the LEO have retreated? I mean, he didn't know who Bundy was and if he was a threat right? Think before you type, people.
 
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What was Goliath killed with...

A rock.

What was the proscribe weapon of execution in the old testament...

multiple rocks
 
If you are dumb enough to through a rock at some one with a gun then you need to die.:mad: It is no ones fault that kid is dead but his own. And any one who thinks other wise is just as dumb. He chose to through the rock at a LEO no one else made the choice for him.
 
Goliath is a myth unless you also believe in Unicorns and talking snakes.

those stoned to death were usually tied down and had many many people throwing large stones at them.

There is really no excuse to kill a kid throwing rocks when you are outside in the wide open area and should be perfectly capable of that tricky defense move called DUCKING & WEAVING.
 
Except that you can't duck and weave while handcuffing another criminal.

Just another dead piece of kaka whose mami says he was a good vato...when he wasn't smuggling.
 
So a LEO doing his job should run instead of defending him/herself? Why didn't the kid "duck/weave" the bullet? Hide behind the bridge supports? Cops DO NOT have to stand there and let little B A S T A R D S throw rocks at them. That's why they have guns. To defend themselves and others.
Yeah, you're right. Rocks only kill you if you're tied down genius.
 
There is really no excuse to kill a kid throwing rocks when you are outside in the wide open area and should be perfectly capable of that tricky defense move called DUCKING & WEAVING.

Bunk. When you're trying to detain a suspect and his buddies are throwing rocks big enough to cause brain damage, then dodging and weaving aren't an option. And when you hold fire and further embolden the thugs to throw rocks and edge closer, that puts your life in more danger.

The number of Israeili citizens lying in hospitals with brain damage is testimony. Another tactic is steel ball bearings from slingshots that can penetrate a windshield or human skull.

Some folks seem to associate rock throwing with a bunch of Palastinian kids throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers safe in vehicles or behind cover as the news media begins filming on que.

Also saw a video, taken with night vision cameras, showing Mexican citizens being murdered by rock throwing thugs as they were robbed while staging to cross the border. Rocks (big ones) were thrown at close range with deadly accuracy. One individual hit went down and didn't move. Dead.
 
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Nnobby45, you have to be wrong. Blunt force trauma( accidental or intentional) apperently can't kill you. All the people killed that way every year will be mighty glad to hear that I'm sure.
 
Can't everybody just get along, and stop insulting each other with comments about intelligence degradation and sarcasm ?

I'd still like to know if the kid was killed on the Mexican side of the border.
 
Well sport, if people would think before they type comments about rocks not being dangerous and LEOs should run when criminals attack them, maybe we could. Yes the kid was in Mexico.
 
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Palestinians throw rocks at Isreali soldiers all the time, but the Isrealis have a whole squad facing off with the scattered stone throwers. Rubber bullets work.

Different Scenario:
US Mexico border, no squads just a few if that, border patrol guys together at a time facing off to an unknown number of illegals who may or may not be armed. If they start throwing rocks at you, you can can't retreat. You have no idea what will happen or how many you are facing or how violent they will get at a border infested with dangerous coyotes, and drug runners. Damn right I am returning fire and don't fault the officer one bit. Don't want to get short? Well stay on your side of the border, and DON'T ever assault the border patrol. :mad:

Does anyone believe they'd dare throw stones at Mexican LEOs? Come on, everyone knows about the restrictive environment US border patrol is in. I'd give them M16s and tell them fire off warning shots when provoked and you don't get compliance take the bastards down. Gotta draw the line at some point. And this is not about immigration or anything, the damn border is not a street in the US, very dangerous place to be. Lots of desperate folk, but at the same time, some willing to do anything it takes, so Leo is in infinitely more danger than your average cop on the beat. Go throw rocks at a cop in town see if you don't get your ass shot too. This whole thing is absurd. I can't believe people suggest retreat. He is LEO has obligation to stand his ground take you down if necessary.
 
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Look. First off, ANYONE saying the BP guy should have been "ducking and weaving" really needs to learn how to read. The agent was detaining an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT on the ground. Once the Mexican's just on the other side of the border saw this, they started throwing rocks at him.

The BP guy had an OBLIGATION to protect not only himself, but his detainee. The BP guy was being ATTACKED by multiple assailants throwing large rocks. After having been in this Nation's Army for over 20 years and deployed to some of the worst places you could think of, I can GUARANTEE you that when all of those rocks were coming in while the BP guy was arresting an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, he felt as though HIS life and, that of the criminal, were in jeopardy. He pulled his weapon and fired at the group of Mexican's doing the rock throwing. HE, the Patrol officer, was being ATTACKED by people. Some on the Mexican side, some running back and forth over the border to chuck rocks at him. The Officer did the RIGHT THING in defending himself and ensuring the health of his detainee.

Can you imagine what would have occurred if the illegal immigrant he was arresting had been injured or killed by one of those rocks? That Mexican's family would have sued the heck out of the U.S. for not providing a safe environment for their family member while being arrested. They would of been saying, "Yes, he broke the law by crossing the border. So he deserved to be arrested. But the United States of America FAILED to properly protect our family member and think 45 million dollars should cover it."

And this statement just blows my mind with its stupidity and ignorance:

Nunyabiz said:
The KID threw a couple of rocks and then RAN.
He was running away and was shot IN THE BACK.
There is no justification for that period.

Do you REALLY think the BP agent knew the assailants age? Do you REALLY think the agent selected, out of all the people throwing rocks at him from that location, a kid over an adult to shoot? Do you KNOW if the BP agent had just observed this kid throw a big rock that almost hit them and had already observed the individual throw a rock, turn around and run to where more rocks were and then come back towards him to throw them?

Let me tell you something since obviously, the most dangerous situation you've been in is slipping in a puddle of beer next to your fridge. I've been in combat with bad guys and civilians all around us. As a Blackhawk crew chief and door gunner, it was my duty to disembark the helicopter and provide covering fire with my MP5, M16, M4 or one time, my 9mm when my weapons rack had taken a direct hit from a burst of enemy gunfire. There was a crowd of people, some with weapons, some with grenades and some with knives/machetes. Others, probably just dang civilians, just using that chance to throw rocks at us. When I started looking to aquire a target, I selected the FIRST person who could do the most damage with the weapon of their choice. It was a person whose age I could not determine. He was the closest, he was the most immediate threat since I had spinning rotor blades to worry about and, he had a rock the size of a grapefruit he was hefting over his head. He took two three round bursts to the chest and I then moved to the next target. He took one three round burst and dropped his AK. The next immediate threat took two three round burst to drop and he had dang rock too. I didn't have time to ask anyone for their ID so I could make sure I wasn't shooting a kid. It turned out that one of them was 16 years old.

In the heat of the battle, where I was trying to keep a crowd of people who suddenly turned combative towards our medical evacuation helicopter, I had ZERO time to assess the ages of the enemy. All I could assess was the immediate threat and then immediately eliminate that threat through superior fire power and training. Only one AK was fired at us doing almost no damage, but the rocks and sticks and other crap being thrown at our guys trying to egress the area with their wounded was causing injuries to those guys. The helicopter sustained three main rotor blade hits from rocks, all three blades had to be replaced at a cost of $125,000 per copy, and I have a scar on my left arm from a rock that caused a rather nasty injury.

A few years later, in Iraq, I was placed in a situation where GROWN MEN were using 12-15 year old KIDS as a way to interrupt our convoy. They would push these kids in front of the drivers of the trucks hoping one would stop. As soon as that truck stopped, which would cause all the other vehicles in the convoy behind it to stop as well, then the guys with the guns would pop out of their concealed positions and open fire on the convoy. Once everyone was killed/wounded/captured, they would then steal everything they could get their hands on as well as show their torturing and deaths on Al Jazeera T.V. So you can bet your ass that when one of these guys tossed a kid in front of my truck, I did the only thing I could to protect the other 35 Soldiers of my platoon in the trucks behind me. I didn't touch the brake pedal and that resulted in the death of a child. Something that haunts me to this very day.

This just BEGS the question: Where in the WORLD were the parents of these kids? Or were the parents the one putting these kids lives at risk? What about the other ADULTS in the area. Why in the WORLD didn't they have the kids removed from the area before starting their attacks?

The answer is pretty simple. While we American's, and most other civilized nations, place a VERY high value on the lives of children and will do just about anything to prevent injury or death to a child, not all countries and cultures see it that way. Many of them consider a boy a man just because that boy has hair on his sack or is old enough to father a child himself.

How many times have you seen on TV that American protesters at any given rally are allowing kids in that rally? Especially if that rally has a chance of becoming violent?

You've got a severe cultural ignorance issue going on. Your lack of experience and knowledge clearly shines through in your statements. There's simply too much about this we do not know and I'm sure the gov't is looking through all the security tapes and other data to figure out exactly what happened. If the BP guy is guilty of wrongful use of his weapon, he will be held accountable. If he was justified, he will be released of all culpability. Why don't we get the information surrounding this event before we accuse and condemn? It has already been stated that this Mexican Kid was in the crowd of people throwing rocks at the BP agent. So that's one strike against the kid already. Here in America, we are innocent until proven guilty. You would do very well to remember that.
 
Agree 100%. By the way, every report I have seen said the little $hit was shot near the eye. Where on your back are your eyes?
 
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Hook686 said:
I'd still like to know if the kid was killed on the Mexican side of the border.

Border patrol has video of Mexican agents crossing the river to the US side, picking something small up (like a spent case), going back into Mexico, and dropping it on the ground next to the kid's body.

Ther's no question that the shooter was in the US. The only real questions that remain are:

1) Was the kid in the US who then died in Mexico after being drug across the border or was he targeted on the mexican side

2) was the kid targeted or did he catch an accidental round aimed at someone else.

3) was the kid one of the people throwing rocks?
 
I would also point out that it really shouldn't matter if the kid was on the Mexican side or our side. The rocks were coming from people on the Mexican side of the border and the gunfire came from our side of the border. A border doesn't mean squat when you are being ATTACKED by multiple persons.

IF the Mexican gov't is so worried about a shot being fired from our side, then they should provide enough officers to ensure attacks against our people aren't initiated from the Mexican side. Evidently though, the Mexican officers are too busy trying to find out who cut the hearts out of three people in a cave. Or are too busy trying to keep the drug cartel's from overtaking the whole country.

When your country is so busy trying to secure their own country, and failing horribly at it, you have absolutely ZERO say-so in an incident like this. Of course, if the BP guy incited the Mexicans to throw rocks through his verbal and physical communications, then that agent needs to be prosecuted. However, we don't know yet WHAT the hell happened do we? So chill out with this crap of verbally convicting the BP guy of wrong doing. So far, from what we know, the kid was involved in human smuggling, has a record for that, and was NOT being supervised by any adult. And the kid was shot in the face. Kinda hard to say he was shot in the back while running away with the facts we already have, but facts rarely stop some people from projecting their anti-American agenda, huh Nunyabiz? Let's not hold the ADULTS who initiated this rock throwing incident accountable.....not if they were good, law abiding citizens of Mexico right?
 
And just to make the thread perk up a little, how about the Mexican military on the other side watching it all happen, and then point their weapons at the Border Patrolmen?

I suspect that someone down below has already called Johnny Sutton and demanded the agent be prosecuted---stand by.


Anyone else support Cobra gunships being on call for airstrikes on Mexican soil, should their military attack our nation's Federal LE?:D
 
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