Is hunting just for the rich now?

Never know what you'll find on public lands. Back about 30/40 years ago, a couple of guys set up their back-country Bronco/Blazer/Whatever with tall lugged tires and a stone-guard under the engine and transmission. Off to the way-back-there they go, even beyond the road and one guy walks and leads the way. They're finally happy with how far back they've gotten and stop and set up camp.

Peace and quiet. Campfire. A wee toddy before sundown. And then they hear a noise. The noise gets louder. Finally they see the source, as a couple of Hippie hunters ease on by in their old VW bus.

I allus did like those four-wheeled bedrooms. :D
 
What I liked in NY was, if a land owner gave you access, he was shielded from liability if you got hurt.
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The landowner may have been shielded from liability to you, but not from any third party that you killed or injured while hunting on his land.
 
I'd like to say something good about hunters, too, generally speaking.

First, there is the idea that people who like to get out into the woods are of two camps. Those that hunt and those that don't and that their interests and backgrounds are totally different and maybe don't even like one another. There is an element of truth to that but obviously hunters like being in the woods. They probably have a higher appreciation of wildlife than anyone, shooting turtles notwithstanding, and of "wild lands," too. At one time, people who went camping went in order to hunt or fish. That was when L.L. Bean's customers actually went hunting. L.L. Bean even wrote an excellent guide to hunting (very Maine oriented, I will say), which even listed the deer kill in Maine by county for, I think, 1940. For all its yuppieness, though, you can still buy a few camping things there and I understand the store in Maine actually sells guns, even though most of us couldn't afford one probably.

I hate to think that some happy camper from downtown that gets out two or three times a year is a slob but I know some are, and rumor has it that some hunters don't have the highest standards either.

But here's something about hunters that you can't say about the guy that just likes to go hiking, provided his wife will let him out of the house, and that the hunter has to pay for the privilege, if nothing else, in the form of licenses and stamp fees. The hiker probably never has to pay anything except perhaps the entrance fee at the national park. I'm not saying the hunter likes to pay those fees no more than the guy going to the national park does either but (presumably) those fees go into conservation and help to keep hunting alive, in a manner of speaking.
 
Blue Train - I think most of us who own land but do not "share" it with others who hunt have a very good reason for it.

Dedicated hunters, week-end hunters and wanna be hunters all fall into the same class of people like you and me... They want to hunt.

But unfortunately, I have no way of knowing what type of hunter just asked me about hunting on my property.

We had a lot of rain two days before the opening of firearms season. Everything is muddy as heck. I have already had to chase off two guys who figured because the field was empty, it would be OK to pull in and unload their ATVs. It was also OK to do a few donuts while testing them out. I guess it was also OK to block access to the field. Do you think they would have fixed the ruts they should have never created before they left?

I caught a kid walking through the woods in back of my house yesterday. Thank the Good Lord he had hunter orange on. He was tracking a deer. If he had come to the house and asked we probably would have said OK. But I was sitting outside for awhile before I saw him. I never heard a shot and he claimed he had tracked the deer for over a mile... I doubt he had shot anything and if he had shot something and tracked it for over a mile, he probably did not kill it.

Someone had been in my upper field. I found beer cans and an empty bottle of scent blocker on the ground. The gate had been left open.

I am sure these guys are good people and I may even like them if I got to know them. But it is a heck of a thing to meet someone who has just broken the law (Trespassing, damage to personal property) and expect me to say it is OK for them to hunt.
 
You're right...That's why I try to educate my non-hunting friends. Ducks Unlimited is a perfect example.

Edit: responding to Bluetrain.
 
That was when L.L. Bean's customers actually went hunting. L.L. Bean even wrote an excellent guide to hunting (very Maine oriented, I will say), which even listed the deer kill in Maine by county for, I think, 1940. For all its yuppieness, though, you can still buy a few camping things there and I understand the store in Maine actually sells guns, even though most of us couldn't afford one probably.
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I got my 870 and a nice used Winchester 94 at Beans. They've got a nice hunting section at the flagship store in Freeport, and they hosted a big event for the first day of deer season this year. But for the most part you're right, they're not the outdoor experts that they once were. Nevertheless they still provide plenty of jobs and draw a lot of money into my area.
 
May I offer a suggestion

I make assumption that many of you belong to various fraternal organizations.
KofC,Masons, Elks,Moose Etc. I speak of organizations with a National/international Membership. Many of these clubs have Sportsman clubs. We in the KofC have one I belong to the local chapter that meets monthly, goes on hunting/fishing trips etc. What I suggest is that you contact local and other state chapters, and inquire about hunting lands. Remember now some of these private land owners don't know you, and will not offer you some kind of break or hospitality they would offer friends they know well.To them you're just another hunter that they can make money from. We contact KofC Conferences in other states, and arrange to hunt on a Brothers land, or use the public land. I generally don't include the veterans organizations in this, but that doesn't mean you can't network through them.
Remember when you do this,offer that man a share in the spoils of the hunt, and even if he doesn't ask compensation for the use of his land, offer it anyway. Let me know what you think, and Good Luck
 
BlueTrain I merely offered a suggestion. If you are not bothered by the problem of where to hunt, then God Bless. Hunt where you will, and lots of luck
 
Here in Pa. there's a lot of public land on which you can hunt. State forest, national forest and the most interesting is game lands bought and paid for through the sale of hunting licenses. Leases for hunting on private land probably do exist but I'm not aware of it but you do need to ask permission before hunting there.
 
I do have access to lots of private ground, just not where we used to hunt as that county went money hungrey. On one hand it is better for their community as the guys can afford that type of hunting also spend lots of cash at the eat um up joints, gas stations etc. Alas I am not of their income.
Pheasants forever also has some good benifits like club land you can hunt. There are 3 or 4 PF places close by my place, join up and a person can hunt them.

Iowa also has a lot of public land, there are 1700 acre fields close by that hold birds. Lots of places to hunt, not pen raised planted birds, but wild as the dickens birds that are cagy, smart.

Dads place was never posted when I was growin up in the 60s. We still hunt it, still find pheas and quail.

hunting wasnt about greed, farmers used to tell us where to hunt on their land. Would sit and visit for hours afterwards, just for the company. Tasted some of the best schnapps in an old farm house, he was in a wheel chair, I would sit and talk to him all afternoon just to hunt his place. Was 35 years ago and would like to have a good conversation with him once more. Young farmers got no time for talk, always in a hurry....

I still fix their tractors and farm trucks. Weld up broke things. Going hunting this weekend with my son.
 
Im glad that I am on the other end of the state, We have the Angelina National Forrest, the Sabine National Forrest, The Davy Crocket National Forrest, Corps of engineer land, All open to walk in hunting, and several leases that cost less for the whole season, than a weekend hunt in West Texas.
I do believe that Trophy hunting is what has screwed it up for the average hunter, It comes down to who can pay more.
Im afraid that it wont get any better, You would be well served to just take out a loan, and buy yourself some land to hunt on.
Good luck.
 
An old friend has contacted me about sharing some of the price of a 1300 acre lease for next year, it's in a good area, but hell money is still pretty tight at my ranch, but it is still an oppurtunity to put me an my huntin crew in some good private land.:) Year in and year out we still manage to put the meat in the freezer on public ground!!;)
 
It really depends where you are at. Being a predator caller I constantly am hearing about guys talk about lack of land in Texas. Seem's odd but it's true. Here in Iowa we have a good bit of public land but to tell the truth my success rate for deer, pheasant, coon and coyote has been dismal on public land. When season comes it doesn't take long for hunters to push the game onto closed private land surrounding the public land. It's a matter of numbers. On the other hand, Nevada, Wy, Idaho, Montana, Wisc, etc etc have more than enough public land to legally hunt on. For now that is until the federal and state governments deem hunting unacceptable on the lands they control.

But I do see the concern in the OP. Timber land here in my part of the state has been gobbled up by developers during the housing boom. This not only closes off those lands but also invites suberbanites out to the country that really have no idea about hunting and country life in general. Lord forbid I hunt or trap the land adjacent to theirs. Don't get me started on these folks. In other parts of the state timber land has been bought up by rich hunters wanting their own private spot and by groups that are turning it into leased hunting land.

This is why I don't throw a blanket over poaching. If you look at the history of hunting in Europe, 90% of the population was/is unable to hunt legally because the land is controlled by only a few wealthy people. The poor souls left out had/have to poach to get their meat. Are we to that point here in the US? Not by a long shot. Will it get that way in the future. You're dang straight it will. Only a matter of time.

LK
 
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For the rich, gradually being turned that way, yes, I think so.

As Art pointed out, they had a lease for some time before some well-to-doers from Houston pooled their money and drove out the previous hunter(s).

I have seen it go that way from fishing private ponds as well, 30 years ago, all I had to do was, knock on a door and get to hunt or fish. Now some of those same ponds are secured by fishing clubs. Part of it does have to do with the decline in sheer respect that others have for someone's land. I've read the quads tearing up land, beer bottles and refuse in general. I too have witnessed the same type of behavior. Now I'm sure these same people like/love to hunt or fish, but their disregard for another person's property leaves that bitter taste in the mouth of the landowner. So, that landowner decides he would rather lease his property for an income and know who to "boot" from the land if the land is abused.

As for the extra income to repair fences and the like. I don't know if I can buy into that reasoning, because as a private landowner, I do not depend on others to help me with the cost of my own land. I feel that it is done as income in general, not maintenance income. But with it being their land, they are free to do with it as they see fit. Do I let other hunters hunt on our land? You dang right. But, there are requirements of mine that must be met. I want it to be a young hunter who has not gotten to hunt, or the adult that is just getting started. I think it is a wonderful thing for the fellowship and camaraderie to get to hunt together and see someone harvest their first turkey or deer. Now, with that said, I generally don't let these same individuals hunt after they have taken game because I want to extend that opportunity to another person such as them next year. Have I ever charged for a hunter? Nope.

It has become more and more everyday, a market that is driven by the "hunting" channels and the marketing wiles of the add-ons from the scent killers to the newest camo pattern, to the newest camera, so on and so forth. And with this marketing, it has made it more difficult to obtain good hunting land for many people. The good/bad of this is, it helps bring more people to the sport, but, it helps bring more people to the sport.

Some of it is the "trophy" idea. I know of some guys that go hunt fenced game to get 160" or better white tail, or 340" or better elk. They want those "horns" on the wall. This is not hunting. Then you have the "guided" hunts that cost from $1,800 to $2,500 fair chase, but beware, that if you happen to get lucky while hunting and get that big bruiser, some of these, (most), charge a trophy fee of so much an inch above 140-150. Now, we are really getting geared towards the rich in that aspect!! Come hunt, and if you happen to see ole' big boy, you can take him, for a "nominal" fee. This fee can extend up to an extra $8,000 on top of the initial fees!!! I don't think there are too many average income people that can afford to pay that.

I think it is a great thing when someone such as KraigWy helps out others. That is the sportsman. Cleaned, loaded their deer and gave away his own deer. And I assume, so forgive me, but I feel pretty good assuming so, he did that out of kindness, not looking for accolades.

And I do understand the legal concerns for landowners. Hate to say it, but, it has become a "sue happy" society and there are a great many people out there that look for a free dollar.

Just my thoughts...
 
I may have gone over this elsewhere, but some facets to this: Seventy years ago, half the population either lived in the country or had parents or grandparents with farms or ranches.

Far fewer farms and ranches nowadays, with far fewer city people having any direct or familial connection with rural lands. And double the population of seventy years ago. Concentrated populations in cities; far fewer folks "out there" with family connections to towns.

The overhead for landowners is far higher now than it was even forty years ago. Ad valorem taxes, income taxes, costs of feed, seed, fertilizer and fuel.

Add all that up and it gets rough on a city fella's billfold.
 
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