Is Bush's Terror War to protect America....

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Personal feelings aside...

I would think that as a nation that's supposed to represent freedom and equality, it doesn't help by throwing gasoline into a fire. Is it not our task as a civilized nation to be the better opponent and treat them the way that they are unwilling to treat us?


Epyon
 
Y'know, STLRN, there's a difference between a nice, clean shootin' and torturing a man, and the conventions of warfare recognize it. The present Administration doesn't recognize it.

Even an "unlawful combatant," you can kill them or get all sentimental and just lock them up -- but you're not supposed to waterboard them. You're not supposed to sic dogs on them once you have them in your power. You're not supposed to make them wear your underpants as a mask. That's not right.

...And our government has suggested they can pretty much declare most anyone anywhere an "unlawful combatant;" they don't have to be in a war zone, not in uniform, an' doin' soldier-type things no matter what those funny old treaties say.

I have a problem with that. If we're not willing to abide by our own rules, to behave in a decent matter, are we really better than a bunch of rats holdin' machetes on a hostage?

There's no point to winning if you're not behaving as good guys when you win; you will have become what you were supposed to be fighting against.
 
ceetee,

Oh - so it was Bush's responsibility (and only responsibility) to enforce THE UN resolutions? And to do so WITHOUT FORCE? HOW??? So after more then a year of trying, being supported and encouraged, HE SAID IRAQ WOULDN"T MEET THE UN SANCTIONS. Combined with all the other giving reasons, we went to war.



OK - whereas constantly pointing out your errors every few posts is getting a little tedious, whereas every so-called argument you brought up in the thread has been shown by documented sources to not be true, whereas the sources I quote are available to ANYONE with access to Google and a little knowledge, whereas YOU have offered NOT 1 bit of factual or justifiable piece of evidence to support ANY of your claims - not even the obvious possibly telling items like the latest Senate Report, whereas you have obviously chosen to avoid information right near other things you post to try to make a point, whereas YOU are so unprepared to take up this argument that it is almost embarrassing to continue...

I consider our exchange on this topic closed, AND shake my head at the sorry state affecting the people like you who would do damage to this country so willingly, and do so with no viable knowledge, no practical defense, and no real support for their positions.
 
Obviously Roberta you never had to shoot someone, it is not very neat and clean. You can hear them moan and cry as they are dying, to me it sounded like they were in pain laying there bleed to death.
 
Stlrn...

I think what she means is that as opposed to physical torture of prisoners, if you're going to execute them, then be quick and humane about it, bullet to the head, lethal injection, etc. There is a reason physical torture is not condoned for enemy combatants, because war is bad enough as it is. If we are going to be detaining enemy combatants then to torture them makes us no better than them. If we are supposed to be a civilized nation, we're supposed to follow the rules that have been internationally agreed upon.


Epyon
 
"I have a problem with that"

Good thing it's a free country, right?

Just don't expect everyone to agree with you on every little thing.

John
 
Exactly John! Why should anyone agree to abide by widely accepted international protocol...or even rules in general for that matter. And especially on 'little things' like the treatment of our fellow man. (but wait, they're TERRORISTS! All of them! Why should they be entitled to ANYTHING? They've sworn to push us out of their country...what right do THEY have to do so?)
 
shield20...


Whereas... you've not proven any statement you've made in this thread to be true...

Go ahead. Accuse me of anything you want to accuse me of. Bye.
 
I personally have no problem with us doing it either, because the way the Jihadists fight, they deserve it.
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The problem with that line of thinking is that sometimes the troops can't teel the Jihadists from the innocent civilians. Allowing American forces to execute people on the spot makes them no better than the enemy.
 
Have any of you had to wait on an EOD team to blow up bodies before because the remains were made into IEDs? Well I have because the so called fellow "humans" we are fighting have done that in Iraq multiple times, to include to remains of US service members and it to babies' corpses. These are the same people who saw off heads, seal people into rooms and let them starve to death and boil people alive. So no I have absolutely no problem killing them or would not have a problem with using what ever means necessary to get info that keeps other Americans alive.

So far we have been fighting them with kidd gloves on and aiding by laws that technically we would not have to follow. And what has that got us? They take that as a sign of our weakness, they know if captured all the have to do is shut up, than they go to Gen Pop and will be let go in a few months. They are ready do all the those things to us that those of you who operate in the theoretical realm say will happen if we change our practices.
 
It's pretty simple if we take the Brit approach in Malaysia. If we find you with Arms, Ammo or Explosives we shoot you. The funny thing is although Malaysia was one of the last successful counterinsurgency operations, most people only want to talk about the hearts and minds campaign at the end, not the having to kill allot of people up front.
 
Exactly John! Why should anyone agree to abide by widely accepted international protocol...or even rules in general for that matter. And especially on 'little things' like the treatment of our fellow man. (but wait, they're TERRORISTS! All of them! Why should they be entitled to ANYTHING? They've sworn to push us out of their country...what right do THEY have to do so?)
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It must be a lovely planet you come from. If you've ever been in a situation where you've been targeted, I'm quite sure your outlook would be different. I don't believe STL has once advocated not following rules, he has advocated using all of the rules to your advantage. That is how you win, it's called gamesmenship, this just happens to be a game with higher stakes than many aren't willing to play...........life.
 
It's pretty simple if we take the Brit approach in Malaysia. If we find you with Arms, Ammo or Explosives we shoot you.
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So basically, round up all the gun owners and shoot them... that's your "no kid gloves" solution to controlling a civilian population and winning an insurgency?...
 
I see...

STLRN, so considering that bills are also being passed in this country that also allow very broad definition of "terrorism" would you agree that if the government decides to label a good number of Americans as "terrorists" you'd follow orders unquestionably and kill them? The very people you're meant to protect? Do you also agree with legislation that says any AMERICAN CITIZEN who is SUSPECTED of terrorism should be detained indefinately without due process, a right to an attorney, etc?


Epyon
 
Exactly epyon.One must apply the same logic here as abroad, as the law then applies to anyone suspected of terrorist activity or whatever those definitions may include at a future date.I dont believe that any of it will just go away in the next few years.
 
It's pretty simple if we take the Brit approach in Malaysia. If we find you with Arms, Ammo or Explosives we shoot you.
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And every time you shoot a family father for having an AK and two mags in the house for self-defense, you make sure that his children grow up hating us and joining the insurgency for certain.

Of course, you can kill the whole household and solve the problem that way.
 
Bitch, bitch, bitch.

Get involved. Politically, militarily, however. The opportunities are out there. Every branch of the service is hiring. Overseas security contracters are hiring. Law enforcement at all levels and the CIA are hiring. Political campaigns are seeking volunteers.

If you serve at any capacity, I salute you. If you are nothing more than a keyboard commando or philosopher then I must, as an American, support your right to do so. But if you aren't doing anything else, somebody, somewhere could use your help.

Get involved.
 
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