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Is Bush's Terror War to protect America....
- Thread starter aspen1964
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right on, Epyon. Those are the same issues I champion.
I used to consider myself right-wing as a teen, saw how deluded and stagnant-minded that was, so I shifted left in my mid-late 20s. Now, all I realize it's all bull****, a big economic/socio-political game. I often consider the other side of the coin others refuse to consider. Playing the morality card has been an excercise in hypocrisy for the current admin.
I'm a scientist, so I'm all for advancing it...though I am a moral person. Stem Cell research has been developed to the point where we don't have to mutilate embryos...Sweden has known this for over a decade.
and yes, this is the only planet we have, sending probes to Mars is a big joke (Bush must be a big Total Recall fan), and we're not the only species that share the Earth. It's one grand symbiosis.
I used to consider myself right-wing as a teen, saw how deluded and stagnant-minded that was, so I shifted left in my mid-late 20s. Now, all I realize it's all bull****, a big economic/socio-political game. I often consider the other side of the coin others refuse to consider. Playing the morality card has been an excercise in hypocrisy for the current admin.
I'm a scientist, so I'm all for advancing it...though I am a moral person. Stem Cell research has been developed to the point where we don't have to mutilate embryos...Sweden has known this for over a decade.
and yes, this is the only planet we have, sending probes to Mars is a big joke (Bush must be a big Total Recall fan), and we're not the only species that share the Earth. It's one grand symbiosis.
we're now in a strategic position to attack Iran and Pakistan from both Iraq AND Afghanistan, don't forget Israel will be more than willing to help.
where are you going to get the troops to do all this stuff with? The senior US Commander is saying that he needs extra troops for Afghanistan as is. All the troops we have in Iraq are pretty tied up with handling the internal situation there. The Reserves and National Guard have pretty much cycled a big majority of thier troops through the OEF/OIF wash cycle already. By law they can only serve up to 24 months max. That means that if they have served 14-16 months already they can only do 10-8 months which includes 1-3 months for mobilization training and validation and about 2-4 weeks for travel and demob. The only way the President can get everybody to zero is to have a new callup from scratch.
Puttin Israeli troops in Iraq, Pakistan or Afghanistan would be the political equivilant to dropping a nuke. It would go over like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl.
This is pretty much like Custer at little Big Horn Saying...yes we have those fellows right where we want them now.
To answer the strategic question...
Heist, I never said it was good or bad. Eghad, I also didn't mean that we could do it now, I'm just saying having a foothold in both of those countries are strategic if we decide to fight Pakistan and Iran. As for getting more troops, well so far the Constitution has become null and void right? So what's stopping the government from further infringing upon our rights, and say throw in a draft? (If that happens I'm either moving to Canada, back home to Bangladesh, or will be in support for our own internal regime change should the People decide our government is no longer doing what it's supposed to.)
Epyon
Heist, I never said it was good or bad. Eghad, I also didn't mean that we could do it now, I'm just saying having a foothold in both of those countries are strategic if we decide to fight Pakistan and Iran. As for getting more troops, well so far the Constitution has become null and void right? So what's stopping the government from further infringing upon our rights, and say throw in a draft? (If that happens I'm either moving to Canada, back home to Bangladesh, or will be in support for our own internal regime change should the People decide our government is no longer doing what it's supposed to.)
Epyon
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Here, lets add a lil fuel to the fire...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060905/cm_thenation/20060918brecher
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060905/cm_thenation/20060918brecher
shield20
It's painfully obvious that you're going to defend the current administration, no matter what they say, or do. No matter what. My take on that Joint Resolution is Congress authorizing the President to do two things: enforce all UN sanctions, and protect our country. Maybe you think he's done that. I don't.
It's also absolutely clear that you like to quote sources that can't be verified. Maybe they're real, maybe they aren't. You also like to ignore questions that have been posed for you to answer. That makes your argument (to me, at least) specious at best.
Thanks for your time.
ceetee -- who absolutely refuses to drink the Kool-Aid, no matter if it's red or blue...
It's painfully obvious that you're going to defend the current administration, no matter what they say, or do. No matter what. My take on that Joint Resolution is Congress authorizing the President to do two things: enforce all UN sanctions, and protect our country. Maybe you think he's done that. I don't.
It's also absolutely clear that you like to quote sources that can't be verified. Maybe they're real, maybe they aren't. You also like to ignore questions that have been posed for you to answer. That makes your argument (to me, at least) specious at best.
Thanks for your time.
ceetee -- who absolutely refuses to drink the Kool-Aid, no matter if it's red or blue...
Esquire M Busterbury...
That article got my blood boiling, time to post a thread. I can't believe what Bush is doing to this country. Imperialistic president indeed, and those who are still in favor of him think it's okay for America to be immune to all international law as well, completely unconcerned or ignorant of the fact that if it can happen to detainees it has the serious potential to happen to American citizens as well.
Epyon
That article got my blood boiling, time to post a thread. I can't believe what Bush is doing to this country. Imperialistic president indeed, and those who are still in favor of him think it's okay for America to be immune to all international law as well, completely unconcerned or ignorant of the fact that if it can happen to detainees it has the serious potential to happen to American citizens as well.
Epyon
...I want terrorists defeated to ensure our nation stays an independant, soverign nation...I have serious doubts that my vision of America and Bush's are alike....I don't trust his motives any longer...his words of patriotism and duty to the US are in conflict with his wrong positions on vital, serious issues...I will never stand up for any politician who pretends to practice conservative values yet in reality is a fraud to those ideals...that is the main problem with my party(R)..too many phonies!...I had some faith in bush until he dtarted running up record deficits, refuses to acknowledge that he does not want to fix the illegal problem though he lies about it, talks about NOTHING but IRAQ, IRAQ, IRAQ, IRAQ..like he is trying to hypnotize us into not noticing all the other problems facing us...and his ignoring them...FRAUDULENT JACKASS!!!..if you're worried about terrorist attacks you better keep a BIG EYE on IRAQ'S neighbor!..who is playing the stall game at our future's expense...
have you seen pictures/video of his ranch home in Crawford Texas?
he has solar panel arrays, and an irrigation system which recycles water. pretty ironic.
he may just be a moral man, but he has to make a lot of immoral decisions on behalf of his whole administration, and interest groups which funded his campaign.
people who actually associate the republican party with good ol' fashion conservative morals, really should wake up.
he has solar panel arrays, and an irrigation system which recycles water. pretty ironic.
he may just be a moral man, but he has to make a lot of immoral decisions on behalf of his whole administration, and interest groups which funded his campaign.
people who actually associate the republican party with good ol' fashion conservative morals, really should wake up.
aspen1964...
May I say, that I totally lost faith in both Democrats and Republicans a long time ago, it's time to vote for real people, not those who are funded by large overly powerful parties who's only interest is their own agendas and not that of the people. I hope something drastic happens before the 2008 elections that'll cause people to wake up and realize we're all getting royally screwed over in all of this mess. The Republicans and Democrats have always been about one thing only... absolute power. As long as they rule the roost no one else matters, and the Constitution is just an outdated piece of paper.
To Polymer, if Bush was a moral man, he wouldn't have violated the Geneva Conventions along with his cronies. If he was a moral man, he wouldn't do what his party tells him to, he'd do what is good for the People.
Epyon
May I say, that I totally lost faith in both Democrats and Republicans a long time ago, it's time to vote for real people, not those who are funded by large overly powerful parties who's only interest is their own agendas and not that of the people. I hope something drastic happens before the 2008 elections that'll cause people to wake up and realize we're all getting royally screwed over in all of this mess. The Republicans and Democrats have always been about one thing only... absolute power. As long as they rule the roost no one else matters, and the Constitution is just an outdated piece of paper.
To Polymer, if Bush was a moral man, he wouldn't have violated the Geneva Conventions along with his cronies. If he was a moral man, he wouldn't do what his party tells him to, he'd do what is good for the People.
Epyon
That article got my blood boiling, time to post a thread. I can't believe what Bush is doing to this country. Imperialistic president indeed, and those who are still in favor of him think it's okay for America to be immune to all international law as well, completely unconcerned or ignorant of the fact that if it can happen to detainees it has the serious potential to happen to American citizens as well.
And this why we will lose this war, people unwilling to treat the enemy as the enemy but instead as criminals in the US courts. Up until we actually carried what the enemy thought we won wars, now people are too concern with theoretical discussions and what maybe to fight and win. It kind of makes me sick to stomach to think think there are so many people like that in the country.
And by the way, if your not willing to fight for this country, go ahead and leave and good riddance.
not everyone is willing to hop right into the military to fight for some board/syndicate's twisted agenda, you do realize that don't you?
I don't know how many people actually believe that terrorists are going to even attempt to come over here and make us slaves to their way of life, I'm not one of them.
so tell me...why have we stopped looking for Osama?
I don't know how many people actually believe that terrorists are going to even attempt to come over here and make us slaves to their way of life, I'm not one of them.
so tell me...why have we stopped looking for Osama?
Well since we still are I think that is just another one of the DNC talking points. However we are sure he is in a region where we cannot touch him at this time because to forcible enter the region will cause its pro-American government to be overthrown and their nuclear weapons to handed over to Jihadists.
Pretty simple, huh?
Pretty simple, huh?
you're right, I'm awake....and relatively unamused.
I suppose Op. Northwood was just a coincidence then, eh?
http://darrendixon.supanet.com/operationnorthwood.htm
I suppose Op. Northwood was just a coincidence then, eh?
http://darrendixon.supanet.com/operationnorthwood.htm
Stlrn...
You're a soldier correct? Then as you know, when in war there are military tribunals, never did I say let's put them through civilan court, I said due process. Put them through military courts, and let them face trial, after all if they are the enemy do they not have rights as prisoners of war? Oh wait, this isn't a real war is it? Congress never declared it, and this is a perpetual confrontation as planned by those who wish to take away more rights. Good ole Dubya doesn't want to follow the Geneva Conventions, which are the guidelines for modern warfare.
Epyon
EDIT:
You're a soldier correct? Then as you know, when in war there are military tribunals, never did I say let's put them through civilan court, I said due process. Put them through military courts, and let them face trial, after all if they are the enemy do they not have rights as prisoners of war? Oh wait, this isn't a real war is it? Congress never declared it, and this is a perpetual confrontation as planned by those who wish to take away more rights. Good ole Dubya doesn't want to follow the Geneva Conventions, which are the guidelines for modern warfare.
Epyon
EDIT:
Would you say that to every person here? A lot of people in America really aren't falling for the whole idea that we need to give up freedom in order to be free, and fight terrorism. If Al Qaeda wants to take away our freedom they're already winning it from a distance, and all it took were a few planes and some symbolic buildings, sadly enough. Also, as for what you said about bin Laden in hiding, Pakistan is a reluctant ally, not pro-American.And by the way, if your not willing to fight for this country, go ahead and leave and good riddance
Technically enemy combatants can be summarily executed upon capture. That is by the very accords we abide by.
The foreign fighter in Iraq and those held in Gitmo fall into that category. The domestic insurgents are a Levee in Masse and as such are accorded lawful status. They would have to either tried by military tribunal or turn over to the Iraqis for trial. But part of the problem in Iraq is that the legal system is loosely based on Sharia law and as such testimony from US troops carries no power, because in the court's eye a non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim. Hence the recent release of 5000 know insurgents back into Al Anbar this summer.
The foreign fighter in Iraq and those held in Gitmo fall into that category. The domestic insurgents are a Levee in Masse and as such are accorded lawful status. They would have to either tried by military tribunal or turn over to the Iraqis for trial. But part of the problem in Iraq is that the legal system is loosely based on Sharia law and as such testimony from US troops carries no power, because in the court's eye a non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim. Hence the recent release of 5000 know insurgents back into Al Anbar this summer.
I'm not speaking of just Iraq...
I'm talking about enemy comatants in general, if they are detained are there not rules of war that must be followed concerning their treatment and trial status? Why must enemy combatants be given different treatment just because now they are men of no nation? Makes no sense if you ask me, if they really are the enemy then treat them as such, however don't treat them lower than humans if they are detained.
Epyon
I'm talking about enemy comatants in general, if they are detained are there not rules of war that must be followed concerning their treatment and trial status? Why must enemy combatants be given different treatment just because now they are men of no nation? Makes no sense if you ask me, if they really are the enemy then treat them as such, however don't treat them lower than humans if they are detained.
Epyon
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