Is barrel break in a myth

Basically during the break in you are lapping the barrel with the bullets you are firing. All rifling that is cut by machining is going to have defects until it is lapped, either by hand or firing. If you are buidling up copper\lead over the rifling, then the bullet is no longer lapping the barrel, whcih is why you clean inbetween the first few shots. The amount of shots you need is debatible, but I look at it this way, if I am going to pay big money for a rifle that I am expecting some kind of accuracy out of, and the manufacturer is suggesting I break in the barrel, just to be on the safe side I will follow their instrutions. Maybe I am out 40-60 minutes of time, but while I am doint the break in procedure I am also adjusting sights and sighting in teh rifle.
 
twins said:
I don't know if shooting on a Tuesday is better than a Wednesday, but what can it hurt? You should try it.

But if the month starts with a J, I prefer shooting the day after a full-moon because you know the earth gravitational pull may or may not be stronger than the day before, but what can it hurt? You should also try it.

Then my coup-de-grace - jelly filled donuts before range time is better than apple fritters.

Things work different here north of the equator.

All kidding aside, just load, lock, and shoot.
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Well I just got a new rifle a few weeks ago, I purchased 5 different brands of ammo I wanted to try. It took about 6 rounds of ammo to sight it in then I went about shooting 2 x 5 shot groups with each box of ammo to find out what ammo worked best in my rifle. I have picked 1 brand of factory ammo so I will shoot that until I have enough cases to reload. I would have shoot that ammo anyway so when I did I broke in the barrel the exact way the factory recommended.

I dont think it's as important to break in a hand lapped custom barrel as a mass produced factory barrel and if you have ever looked down the barrels of new factory production rifles with a bore scope you will see the imperfections that alot of those articles talked about. Have a read of Howa recommended barrel break in procedure, to me it does make sense.
http://www.legacysports.com/pdf/NewR...nProcedure.pdf

It's like performance V8 engines, some like to run in an engine steady steady and some swear by putting an engine together and giving it hell from the get go.
 
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I don't know if shooting on a Tuesday is better than a Wednesday, but what can it hurt? You should try it.

But if the month starts with a J, I prefer shooting the day after a full-moon because you know the earth gravitational pull may or may not be stronger than the day before, but what can it hurt? You should also try it.

Then my coup-de-grace - jelly filled donuts before range time is better than apple fritters.

Things work different here north of the equator.
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+20

I look at barrel break in as a way to sell more cleaning products... ammo... whatever have you.

First thing I do with a new rifle.... clean it like normal, to get the factory grease out. Lube it.... then go shoot a few groups with different ammo loading... find the load she likes best.... and zero it in. Then I enjoy my rifle.
 
It kind of depends on your shooting. Match shooters desiring top accuracy do go through break in procedures. The average guy probably won't be able to detect a difference especially if they are not a reloader.

During the manufacturing process the tooling leaves burrs, sharp edges etc These will shear off slivers of copper bullet jacket or in some cases steel bullet jacket as the first bullet goes by starting a build up of jacket material at that point(s). Left long enough and the build up gets big enough will get you problems.

Case in point I have a Thompson Contender 6.5 TCU Super 14 and I just started shooting it when I got it. This went on for years then I was fortunate to fall into a outstanding bore scope and I started looking at barrels and that one had gobs of copper build up. I had always cleaned it after shooting as many others do. Bottom line is it took several soakings with a copper solvent I put together to get all the copper dissolved and down to bare metal. When I started shooting the same ammo fired previously the groups were reduced by about 40% and the recoil was reduced significantly.

Another case I heard of a couple years back from a retired Procurement Contracting Officer out of RIA and he related this vendor had a contract for spare M16A2 barrels but his barrels would not meet accuracy acceptance and could not figure out what was going on. The PCO happened to know a guy who was the supervisor of the barrel making facility at Winchester in New Haven before it closed and was available as a consultant so the contractor had him come down for a looksee. When he arrives he asks for a tour of the production line and he looks at each operation closely and makes notes. After the tour he is taken to the reject barrel pile.

He borescopes about a dozen barrels that had failed accuracy requirements and took out his tool box and ran a steel bristle bore brush (as found in gun shows for a buck each) and he did five to seven passes on each barrel and they were reshot. Every last barrel then passed acceptance accuracy.

He explained the problem that during production the tooling leaves the burrs and they destroy the bullet jacket integrity as it passes through.

As a result of that knowledge the gov't process drawing for the M16 barrels now state "5 to 7 passes with steel bristled bore brush after rifling".

Personally the best barrel break in a number of us now do is to coat the barrel with Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil on a bronze brush and make about 20 passes on a new barrel and clean it well. I also use copper solvent to remove the copper that comes in it from the proof round and targeting rounds depending on the manufacturer.

Next I coat the bore with Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil and I use 0W20. Fire one round and then apply copper solvent and observe how much blue comes out the barrel on a paper towel with the rifle placed muzzle down on the floor. Recoat with Mobil 1 and fire another and repeat that. About the third round you should see a much reduced amount of blue coming out with the copper solvent. We do this for five rounds 1 shot at a time and then go for 5 rounds and repeat Mobil 1 for each shot. What this does is to bend the shards of steel forward towards the muzzle.

As I am working up loads for the new barrel I will clean well every 12 shots. By the time I have a load developed I am getting just traces of blue.

You don't have to have a prestine barrel completely free of copper for it to shoot well in many barrels but think of it this way. You are spinning your bullets about 250,000 rpm which has a lead core and a copper jacket that is manufactured to have a very uniform thickness thusly when the lead is inserted the bullet will have a very uniform thickness of copper surrounding the lead.

I have rifles that require them to be fouled before they start to group well and I leave it in. Others shoot very well say 25 rounds and then start to walk around.

If you start grinding off parts of the jacket you are upsetting the center of gravity of the bullet so when it comes out the muzzle bad things happen. Don't believe it? Shoot your rifle two five shot groups or three and then take a small file and cut away bullet jacket material on one side, two sides, three sides etc and shoot them. I think you will see your groups getting bigger.

If you look at barrels with a very good borescope many look like they were rifled with a mill bastard file and a brick. You will also see copper build up on tops of the lands. You will generally see only small contacts of the bullet in the grooves. I have seen barrels with groove contact at say 5% and as much as 50%. The tops of the lands get all the action and is the source of copper build up and as indicated it appears to be globbed on.

So breaking in a barrel has its good points in many cases. No it is not required but then again my dentist has a sign that says, "only floss the teeth you want to save" which kind of seems appropriate.
 
Premium barrel makers recommend a break-in procedure. Many people do break in their barrels, many do not. With mass-produced button-rifled barrels, it's pretty much a waste of time. With premium hand-lapped barrels, it may be worth the extra time and a few shots to do so. But het, it's your gun, do what you want.
 
Not a myth so much as not a proven Hard and Fast Rule. The first time I took one of my SIG SHRs to sight it in, I hadn't touched the barrel nor had I really gone over the screws, but at 100 yards in .270 Winchester off a rather casual rest I was getting groups in the 1.25" range-and I have had verylittle experience shooting centerfire rifles at long range in recent years.
 
Now I dont know if it is a waste of time or not, but what can it hurt?
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It can be a waste of my precious time. That's what it can hurt. ;)
It can also be a waste of ammunition.


As for copper fouling, and its inter-relation to barrel break-in, my experience has pointed me toward the view Shilen has posted on their website:
How clean is clean?
My rifles need some copper fouling to perform predictably. A clean bore is an unpredictable bore. With or without barrel break-in, my rifles want to be dirty.
 
Lapping, which is a form of barrel break in, is definitely worthwhile. So I believe that barrel "break in" a not a myth.
 
Lapping, which is a form of barrel break in, is definitely worthwhile. So I believe that barrel "break in" a not a myth.
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Aye, lapping does seem to be beneficial. But... you're using an abrasive material to do the work. Typical break-in procedures don't call for abrasives, and many specifically state not to use abrasives or abrasive-impregnated projectiles (such as Tubb's Final Finish system).

So, is that really a justification for break-in, or just a justification for lapping?
 
FrankenMauser said:
It can be a waste of my precious time. That's what it can hurt.
It can also be a waste of ammunition.
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So when you get a new gun do you just mount a new scope and just go hunting or shooting without sighting it in? Do you not find what factory or reloaded ammo works best in your new rifle and do you not let the barrel cool between shots?

This is the way I look at it, it doesnt take any more ammo then when your sighting it in and finding what ammo works best and it doesn't take any extra time to push a couple of patches through while you are waiting for the barrel to cool between shots to do the recommended barrel break in.
 
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Still have never met a person who could tell the difference between a barrel broken in correctly, verus broken in incorrectly, versus not broken in at all by shooting it. I have not met anyone who could examine a gun and determine if the barrel had been broken in correctly or not. I haven't found any consensus on what the correct break in procedures are supposed to be. One thing is for certain, they do not just involve running a couple of patches through the bore between shots. Ones like for Krieger barrels involve total copper removal which is a much more involved process than just running a couple of patches.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm
 
I don't really know if it's needed but it gives you a great excuse to go to the range and shoot your new gun!! And you can use that as a chance to test out several different bullet weights/brands to see what your gun likes. Just do it. It's fun!
 
Fullboar said:
So when you get a new gun do you just mount a new scope and just go hunting or shooting without sighting it in? Do you not find what factory or reloaded ammo works best in your new rifle and do you not let the barrel cool between shots?

This is the way I look at it, it doesnt take any more ammo then when your sighting it in and finding what ammo works best and it doesn't take any extra time to push a couple of patches through while you are waiting for the barrel to cool between shots to do the recommended barrel break in.
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How are those patches going to alter the barrel to shoot better?

Sure heating a barrel to the extremes can ruin it, but at the same time people are way to cautious about heat and POI change and such. It's not as bad as people would think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UZ-mApuUoM&feature=player_embedded
 
I posted this on the other thread. it is a collection of a few Gale McMillan's thoughts on the subject

McMillan...
Posted: 01-27-2000 08:57
I will make one last post on this subject and appeal to logic on this subject I think it is the height of arrogance to believe a novice can improve a barrel
using a cleaning rod more than that a barrel maker can do with 30 years of experience and a * million dollars in equipment . The barrel is a relatively
precise bit of machining and to imagine that it can be improved on with a bit of abrasive smeared on a patch or embedded in a bullet. The surface finish
of a barrel is a delicate thing with more of them being ruined with a cleaning rod in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use one. I would
never in a million years buy a used rifle now because you well may buy one that has been improved. First give a little thought to what you think you
are accomplishing with any of the break in methods. Do you really believe that if what you are doing would help a barrel that the barrel maker wouldn't
have already done it. The best marketing advantage he can have is for his barrels to out perform his competitors! Of coarse he is happy to see you
poking things in your barrel . Its only going to improve his sales. Get real!!!! I am not saying the following to brag because the record speak for it' self
McMillan barrels won the gold at 4 straight Olympics. Won the Leach Cup eight years running. Had more barrels in the Wimbledon shoot off every year
for 4 straight yearsthan any other make. Set the national 1000 yard record 17 times in one year. Held 7 world records at the same time in the NBRSA .
Won the national silhouette matches 5 straight times and set 3 world records while doing that . Shot the only two 6400 scores in the history of small
bore and holds a 100 yard world record that will stand for ever at .009 of one inch. All with barrels the shooter didn't have to improve on by breaking
them in.

Posted: 09-25-1999 10:10
The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he
shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer
was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they
change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you
will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that
has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it
ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This
means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20
rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is
shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the
flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you
are spending during break in

Posted: 09-27-1999 09:48 PM
Look at it this way, A barrel starts out with nice sharp areas of the corners of the rifling . Along the way you build a big fire in it a few thousand times
and it burns the corners off. Now take a barrel that to break in you put an abrasive on a patch and run it in and out. The result is that you take the
corners off the rifling so that all that fire which would have started with sharp rifling is now starting with rifling that is thousands of rounds old. Which
means that a lot of the life is gone. A lap always cuts more on each end where the compound reverses direction as it starts back through the barrel
which means that it is enlarging the bore at each ends of the barrel. And last picture a patch riding along the barrel with abrasive on it. It is removing
material at a given rate. It comes to a place where there is copper fouling and it rides over it cutting the same amount that it was cutting before it came
to the copper. You continue until all the fouling is gone and what have you done? You have put the came contour in the barrel steel that was in it when
it was metal fouled. It would not be as bad if it were used on a lead lap but I ask why would you want to abuse the barrel when you can accomplish
the same thing without the bad side effects. There is Sweats, Otters foul out or just a good daily cleaning with a good bore cleaner till the fouling is
gone. To top this off I will relate a true happening. I built a bench rest rifle for a customer and as usual I fired 5 groups of 5 shots and calculated the
aggregate. It was good enough to see that the rifle was capable of winning the Nationals so I shipped it. I got a call from the new owner saying how
happy he was with it the way it shot. About 4 weeks later the rifle showed up with a note saying it wouldn't shoot. Sure enough when I tested it it
was shooting groups three times the size if the ones I had shot before I shipped it. When I bore scoped it the barrel looked like a mirror and the rifling
wasn't square it was half round. From that time on I put a flyer in each gun saying if any abrasive was use in it voided the Warrantee.
Now I am not trying to stop you from doing what you want but just inform you what is happening when you use JB. Brass brushes are softer than
barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you
doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it.


http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...threadid=60102
 
breaking in barrels is an american myth, totally useless, ive never seen anybody anywhere but in america doing it and i have spend a lot of time shooting in many parts of the world. They dont do it in afrika, russia or europe, maybe in asia (ive never been there).
 
Easily we could change the name from "Barrel Break In" to "Weapon Familiarization" so people would be more inclined to fire their rifles right after they buy them?:rolleyes: What's the big deal? Oh I figure it out, it's the cleaning between shots that has people against it? "Are we talking about Practice", "We talking about Practice?" Its just Practice man!!(Allan Iverson);)


Some of us riflemen and women do think we are at the point where we don't need to use any Extra measures in our shooting, but there are alot of new people coming into the sport and could probably use all the time at the range, and if they think "barrel break in" is a worthy cause, then I salute them.

It would make me feel better knowing that Arlie Farkwelder over the hill from me has become One with his rifle.;)

As far as "barrel break" in goes, you say tomatoe,,,, I say glockenspeil! no two people will agree on anything except gas is too high!!!:)
 
My break-in method, must be followed exactly: I pee on it and say, "abra-cadabra". If you do not do it exactly that way, the barrel will never be accurate.
 
So when you get a new gun do you just mount a new scope and just go hunting or shooting without sighting it in? Do you not find what factory or reloaded ammo works best in your new rifle and do you not let the barrel cool between shots?

This is the way I look at it, it doesnt take any more ammo then when your sighting it in and finding what ammo works best and it doesn't take any extra time to push a couple of patches through while you are waiting for the barrel to cool between shots to do the recommended barrel break in.
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Wait between shots? Only if im taking personal time, otherwise I have easily shot 20-30 rounds fairly back to back. I don't have a 'light' hunting rifle though, so I could see how that is needed on rifles that are only supposed to be shot 2-3 shots at a time.
 
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