Is a silencer worth the having?

Wow, i'm dizzy from all this.....Did anyone mention that a truly suppressed weapon uses sub-sonic ammo?? Is there sub-sonic ammo readily available at everyone's LGS?? If your gonna spend all that money on a can, then how much more is the ammo gonna cost?? Can one safely re-load their own sub-sonic ammo??
 
SadistAssassin said:
Wow, i'm dizzy from all this.....Did anyone mention that a truly suppressed weapon uses sub-sonic ammo?? Is there sub-sonic ammo readily available at everyone's LGS?? If your gonna spend all that money on a can, then how much more is the ammo gonna cost?? Can one safely re-load their own sub-sonic ammo??

Most 45 acp ammo is subsonic from the factory. I load my own ammo so I can assemble whatever I like. The only ammo I can't load is .22lr. One can make .22 ammo subsonic by shooting with a 5.5 (or less) inch barrel.

I do see your point though for those who must buy ammo off the shelf. A suppressor will still attenuate the muzzle blast. The 'crack' of super sonic ammo can still be heard. I can load 9mm, 40, 45, 380 even 10mm (IIRC) in sub sonic recipies.
 
And the difference between special exceptions and

Obtaining ATF authorization

is what exactly?
bigStag,

Obtaining ATF authorization is not a special exception by any stretch of the imagination. Now if the ATF handed out tax stamps according to some good-old-boy policy, one could call it a special exemption, but they do not. The US code says that the ATF will consider any application that it receives. This means that they must approve, reject or send back for correction.

If a person lives in a state that allows silencers, they can legally own a firearm and the application is filled out correctly, the ATF is going to approve it. It is nearly a rubber stamp. The tax stamp applications are a worn out relic from the 1930's back before the internet and instant background checks. As far as I know the background check performed for a silencer or other title 2 firearm is no different than the NICS check for an over the counter purchase of a gun at any other gun store. I have no idea why fingerprint cards are used.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
Subpart E
§ 479.64 Procedure for approval
of application.
The application to make a firearm, Form 1 (Firearms), must be forwarded directly, in duplicate, by the maker of the firearm to the Director in accordance with the instructions on the form. The Director will consider the application for approval or disapproval. If the application is approved, the Director will return the original thereof to the maker of the firearm and retain the duplicate.
That is exactly it. What did you have in mind?

Ranb
 
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Some of you just don't WANT to accept sound suppressors, facts be damned.

And some people post incorrect stuff (the 'increase' in size) to make their argument, calling into question everything else they claim.
 
And some people post incorrect stuff (the 'increase' in size) to make their argument, calling into question everything else they claim.

brickeyee,

It couldn't be that bad. My percentage number was right next to a description of the silencer length in inches as well as a photo. Are you going to say next that my silencer is actually longer than I claimed or that my photo is manipulated to show something that is not there? Or are you talking about someone else's claims?

Shooting with a muffler is just as nice as driving with a muffler in my opinion. Silencers do more to enhance my shooting experience than any other device I have used.

I noticed that more attention is being paid to percentage of length claims than the assassin crap and special exemption claims. Why is this?

Ranb
 
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Isn't it true that some of the new sound suppressors found on the precision sniper rifles help with accuracy?

Just something I had heard maybe nothing true about it.
 
Wow, i'm dizzy from all this.....Did anyone mention that a truly suppressed weapon uses sub-sonic ammo?? Is there sub-sonic ammo readily available at everyone's LGS?? If your gonna spend all that money on a can, then how much more is the ammo gonna cost?? Can one safely re-load their own sub-sonic ammo??

Did anyone mention that a muffler or silencer only suppresses muzzle noise? Even when using subsonic ammo you still get bullet flight, impact and action noise.

I do not know what an LGS is, but I have seen in stores or online subsonic 22CB, 22lr, 38 special, 44 special, 44 russian, 32 acp, 25 acp, 9mm, 380 auto, 40 S&W, 45 GAP, 45acp, 45 long colt, 300 whisper, 300blk and 44-40. I have not seen the 50GI available anywhere yet, but I am sure it is out there.

Loading anything else to subsonic speeds is simply a matter of using less powder and shooting over a chrony to check the speed. If using with a silencer there is also the matter of ensuring a proper twist is used to prevent excessive bullet yaw which can cause baffle strikes or inaccuracy. Many reloaders use a heavier bullet to reduce power loss as velocity is limited to about 1100 fps to stay subsonic. This also requires a faster twist than is required for smaller/shorter supersonic bullets.

The largest commercial case I have loaded to subsonic speeds is the 308, and it is a simple matter. With fast burning pistol powder, standard deviations are kept low enough.

One has to be careful that a squib load does not leave a bullet lodged in the barrel leading to another round being fired in the blocked barrel. The only time I had this happen to me was with a 9mm makarov that was loaded to normal (subsonic) velocities. The ejection port noise was loud enough to convince me that nothing was wrong. The next round also lodged in the bore and I watched the pistol fly apart as I felt a blast of hot gases around my hands. I was cut on the face and thumb by pieces of brass, but no burns. The pistol went back together normally, but I will not shoot it again until it is checked out by a gunsmith that knows these guns.

Subsonic ammo generally cost more than the usual stuff. But to the hand loader, it can be cheaper as less powder is used and the brass lasts longer. Unfortunately heavier bullets generally cost more.

Ranb
 
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I have heard claims that increasing barrel tension or weight with a properly mounted silencer will improve accuracy slightly. But until I hear it from an experience benchrest/target shooter or a professional marksman, I have no good reason to believe it. I have not seen any improvement in my groups since shooting suppressed.

I have seen accuracy degradation due to baffle strikes though. My 9mm can unscrewed a bit and drooped causing baffles strikes which made the bullets miss a four foot target at 25 yards. When I tried cast bullets without the gas checks in my 510 whisper, they yawed 90 degrees within 25 yards and dented the last two baffles and the end cap. The solution was to ensure the can stays screwed on tight and to use the right ammo. Basic marksmanship rules that I did not adhere to at the time.

Ranb
 
Wow! All this rant for a simple question... "Is a silencer worth having"?

Simple answer from me.... "YES"!

Ruger 22/45 (249.99). Pac-lite 4.5" upper (299.99). YHM Mite suppressor (229.99) Tax Stamp (200.00)

Shooting that thing..... Priceless...... ;)
 

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chadstrickland said:
Isn't it true that some of the new sound suppressors found on the precision sniper rifles help with accuracy?

Just something I had heard maybe nothing true about it.

I don't see why that would be. There is no contact between projectile and baffles. If anything, turbulence within the suppressor could throw accurcy off a bit. One could compensate by adjusting zero, but then if he shoots unsuppressed, his zero would potentially change again.
 
Seen those new Ruger 22/45? They come with Picatinny rail on top and below the barrel, and are threaded 1/2x28. Just begging for optics, laser, and suppressor....................
 
I have shot suppressed ar15s before and didn't have to change the zero. Although we where using a aimpoint and that is not a precision optic.

I believe the argument was based around the fact that some suppressors are used to separate the gas away from the bullet as soon as it exits the barrel. I suppose acting like a target crown on a barrel only the suppressor is supposed to be better. Idk could be just hype because cans are cool :)
 
Well, for Self Defense I want them to hear it, crap themselves and outrun it.:):p
 
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Sharpsdressed Man said:
But, for most, there IS a LEGAL way, and it isn't that hard. Quit saying it is. Just say you don't want to, for whatever reason you have at hand.
For some, depending on where they live, CLEO sign-off is a non-starter. That means they have to pay extra to go the trust route. Is it always hard? No, but it's not always easy either, and it can certainly cost more and be more trouble than your post implies.
Some of you just don't WANT to accept sound suppressors, facts be damned.
The fact is, some folks are actually quite interested in suppressors but have looked into purchasing them and found the hassle and cost to be excessive.

I realize that some people clearly believe that this is all about bias and that if folks knew the facts they would have a suppressor. That's certainly the case for some, but it's not the whole story. Some folks know the facts and have simply made a well-informed decision not to buy a suppressor. Is it really that hard to believe that different people might make different decisions based on the same facts?
Isn't it true that some of the new sound suppressors found on the precision sniper rifles help with accuracy?
I've heard arguments in both directions on this one. I think it's safe to say that a properly made and installed suppressor shouldn't hurt accuracy by virtue of being a suppressor. Because it effectively adds extra weight and probably extra length to the barrel, it will affect barrel harmonics which could have either a helpful or hurtful effect. However, that's a function of the added weight/length, not of anything directly related to the actual operation of the suppressor. In other words, hanging ANYTHING off the muzzle can help or hurt merely by changing the barrel harmonics so it's not fair to attribute that type of result to the suppressor.
I noticed that more attention is being paid to percentage of length claims than the assassin crap and special exemption claims. Why is this?
First of all, I would think you would be happy that no one is giving any credibility to the talk about assassins. It's inevitable that internet discussions generate some "noise". It's a good thing when the rest of the participants ignore it and focus on facts instead.

As far as the "special exemption" claims, while the terminology may not be spot-on, it's certainly true that the CLEO sign-off route requires that the purchaser get special permission before the purchase can proceed. In many areas that process is NOT accurately defined as a simple rubber-stamp process.

Ok, back to the percentage length/cost, etc. I think if you go back and re-read the thread it will all become clear. Someone tried to compare mufflers to handgun suppressors and I pointed out that from a practical standpoint, mufflers and suppressors were VERY different. I also pointed out some reasons why that was true--namely that mufflers didn't typically double the length or cost of a typical car, nor did they change its handling characteristics.

You responded with a post, apparently rebutting my assertions about the effects on length, handling & cost but using incorrect calculations in the process. Then when the glaring error was pointed out, you pretended that it didn't mean anything because the pictures showed the truth. It's sort of an odd situation because if you MEANT the pictures to show the truth then why did the figures attempt to tell a different story entirely? And if you meant the post to be a rebuttal to my comment, how does it make sense to essentially claim at this point that the pictures prove it wasn't really a rebuttal at all? I think you'll have to admit it's a somewhat odd and contradictory situation and one that's bound to draw some comments.
 
Then when the glaring error was pointed out, you pretended that it didn't mean anything because the pictures showed the truth. It's sort of an odd situation because if you MEANT the pictures to show the truth then why did the figures attempt to tell a different story entirely?

I meant to say that attaching a silencer added a certain percentage of length when I actually wrote that it increased the length by a percentage. It was a simple grammar error.

I would have to be really stupid to show a photo that depicts a nearly doubling of the length, list the increased length in inches and then purposely try to say the length figure and photo were in error with a bogus percentage figure. I think you protest way too much.

Ranb
 
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As far as the "special exemption" claims, while the terminology may not be spot-on, it's certainly true that the CLEO sign-off route requires that the purchaser get special permission before the purchase can proceed. In many areas that process is NOT accurately defined as a simple rubber-stamp process.

I described what the ATF does as a rubber stamp. As long as the ATF gets the forms filled out correctly, it is pretty much a sure thing that they get approved. There is no need to go the CLEO sign-off route as long as trusts are accepted by the ATF. I spent $40 for a trust; this is a big savings over the CLEO route as they charged me $20 for fingerprints each time.

My terminology was not spot on either, but you seem unwilling to accept my photos as evidence of added length and instead stubbornly go on and on about my grammar and math.

Ranb
 
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I meant to say that attaching a silencer added a certain percentage of length when I actually wrote that it increased the length by a percentage. It was a simple grammar error.


Added or increased, you got the numbers wrong and presented a very misleading picture.

You posted the percentage of the length the silencer is, not the additional length or increase in length percentage.

It is a typical math error.
 
Are we saying that dimension defines function? That because a device is larger, smaller, increases overall weight, affects the technique of the user, it no longer can be defined as the purpose of its function? Weird. If that is the case, then how does that apply with other devices and their diversity of form with similar function?
 
Hey, reticle...

You just made me drool all over myself, especially the pic of the HK pistol. NICE!!!!!!!

I personally have no need for a suppressor. That being said, I'm saving up for one. Why?

Almost eliminates muzzle whip.
REALLY reduces felt recoil.
Noise reduction--of course!!!

And the BIGGEST reason to buy a suppressor?

Because I can! Because YOU can!!!

They're just durned KEWL!!!!!:D:D
 
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