Is 9mm enough for Mountain Lion?

Great story Electrod47.

Thanks again for all replies. Sounds like 9mm is considered sufficient if I want to go small, and always carry Bear Spray…..
 
A typical mountain lion is 100-175 lbs. Some get a bit over 200 lbs and the biggest ever recorded was 276 lbs.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=avera...sc=4-23&cvid=5a3819b78c4c478b8397d8aeddc03752

9mm pistols are the most used handgun in the world and are carried by most USA cops to stop human threats that are on average larger.

And even in wilderness settings you're more likely to need your gun for 2 legged predators. Lion and bear attacks are very rare, but not unheard of. It never hurts to be prepared.

I don't live, nor do I commonly hike in lion country, but if I did, I'd carry the same handgun I'd carry into town.
 
Although the same weight or a little lighter, I think of Mountain Lions and other wild animals as being much tougher than the same size human.

I actually suspect that mountain lions look at adult human males and decide we might not be good prey, because we are upright and they assume we have similar strength and defenses (teeth, claws) that they do.

They don’t know how pathetically weak we are, even though, unlike bears, they haven’t figured out that we might have guns.

When humans LOOK like the prey lions are used to—joggers and bicyclists LOOK like prey animals running from them—that triggers their attacks. Hikers alone are more vulnerable as well.

I remember a friend telling a hunting story about going up a valley in Arizona looking for animal sign. Unbeknownst to him, a cougar was tracking him from halfway up the canyon! His hunting buddy spotted it and was keeping an eye on it from above. When my friend bent over to look at something on the ground, the lion tensed as if to start an attack, my friend thinks because at that point he looked like prey. His buddy was about to shout a warning, but instead tripped on a rock. The cougar heard him, looked up startled ( “There are TWO of them!”) and took off.

I talked to the head of Big Game hunting for Arizona Game and Fish and she said wherever there are deer in the State, there are mountain lions. They are all over.
 
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I've run across Mountain Lion a few times. Generally, as mentioned above, they were far more interested in staying (poorly ;)) hidden or keeping their distance, than they were in stalking or getting closer.

A large female stalked my brother and I up a trail in Utah about 15 years ago.
We had no idea until we turned around on a pinnacle, saw her break off and trot across the valley to theretofore unseen cubs, and we came across her tracks on the way back down.
Was it a serious stalk? No idea. But she definitely broke off her intended path to follow closely, and then aborted when we stopped and turned around.

We were quite happy to just observe and investigate. Being armed with elk-worthy rifles didn't hurt, but I don't think either of us considered having to use them. We went back down the same path to avoid disturbing the cubs, but didn't feel that we needed to for our safety.
 
Yes, with the right ammo, 9mm will make a mess out of a mountain lion. Obviously as with any service caliber, shot placement is key.
 
Although the same weight or a little lighter, I think of Mountain Lions and other wild animals as being much tougher than the same size human.
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I am just curious, when you say they are tougher than the same size human, what do you mean?
 
Tougher: unless you hit the brain and immediately shut them down, a lion or other wild animal would require more hits to put down. They are not sissies like most of us….
 
Although the same weight or a little lighter, I think of Mountain Lions and other wild animals as being much tougher than the same size human.
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Fiercer, faster, and even stronger does not equate to being tougher against a high velocity hollow point 9mm. The cat has no special structure to make them “tougher” against such a round, which will tear them up pretty bad.

Take Liberty Civil Defense for example. That 150lb cat is not withstanding the damage it creates. You hit it right (as you need to do with any round) and it will make a mess of the mountain lion in short order.
 
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There is a foothills trail not far from my house that makes for a good walk.I have seen a mountain lion there that was unconcerned with my presence.

I started carrying a 5 shot 44 special.

I'm not interested in hunting lions. If a lion comes within about 10 yds I might get defensive.
I'm not a lion expert. I'm thinking if a lion is huffing and posturing in front of you it likely means "Back off! I have cubs here!"
If a lion wants to eat you,as the trail passes under a rock,the lion will drop onto your back and bite your neck. Maybe. It will be no nonesense,no drama. Likely you won't know the lion is there till its on you.
Those are two different scenarios.

Neither scenario would I want to be helpless. I heard the Zulu and Masai kill African Lions with a short spear up close and personal. I'm thinking that means you gotta be cool.

If a lion is on your back, A big Bowie Knife might discourage him. Sticking him in the flank and dumping some innards might distract him. I'm not sure a Smith 29 would would work better if the lion was on you. (I'd happily take the M-29,though)

9mm? Lion bones are light frame,like human. Nerves and arteries are about the same. Punching a hole in the skull is about the same. IF you can be cool as a Zulu or Masai.

At "Up Close and personal" space,the light little Shield Plus will be on me. I'll have it. At 2 feet range,with at least a dozen 9mm, I can likely cause Mr Lion to re-evaluate the menu. Retreat is all I need.

I don't hunt lions. If I did,I might carry a rifle.

We get lions in town around schools and residential areas . Within the last 5 years,a Sherriff Deputy went to ground with one in a Trailer Park here. She had backup and did not get hurt too bad.

Against a lion,I'm still a mere Human, but with a 9mm, I FEEL like I'm not helpless. I will go for a walk in the foothills. A short spear would do. Just so I'm not helpless.
 
Anything that will stop a human will stop a cat.

Now onto tactics: Anytime a mountain lion acts like house cat - shoot it! Juvenile cats act funny because they're trying to figure out how to kill you. Adult cats are different, if you see one, it could very well be last image your brain processes.
 
Their nervous, circulatory, and pulmonary systems are wireless. Can't disrupt them with bullets.
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You joke, but I have had people tell me similar things about feral hogs (and oddly enough, bear) having different systems than we do, hence are not affected by bullets as we are. I found that very amusing given that hogs are/were used for medical simulations and training of humans because they are so similar to humans.

Here are a couple of examples from another forum where this is mentioned. Here it is thought they have a hyped up nervous system...
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...bout-hogs-nervous-system.543619/#post-6735749

And here is said that they have no nervous system (post 52)...
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...a-sidearm-for-hogs.493217/page-3#post-6140091

Can you imagine how an animal with 4 legs, head, tail, ears, etc. that runs around and finds food to eat, etc. is able to do that without a nervous system?

Anything that will stop a human will stop a cat.
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People often confuse the ability to kill with stopping power and these are not one in the same. A hatchet to the head will usually kill much faster than a virus, but the result is the same...for the afflicted cat. The result might not be the same for the cat's human victim.

So the options are not as equitable as you make it sound. The question really isn't about if, but how fast the cat is stopped. A BB gun can kill a human. A BB gun can kill a mountain lion. Not too many non felon adults are going to carry a BB gun around for self defense against mountain lions, right?

A Barrett M82A1 .50 BMG will get the job done, but ain't nobody carrying one of those around for mountain lion defense in the woods, either. So people gotta figure out something in between that works for them. For most folks, what they carry for defense is going to be somewhere in between a BB gun and a M82A1, taking into account what they can afford, have access to, handle well, shoot well, etc.

I would gladly take a 9mm pistol over my Daisy Powerline pistol for mountain lion defense. A 9mm will work. Maybe I shoot and miss and it runs away. Maybe I wound the cat and it still manages to open me up before it dies. Maybe I shoot the cat and come away unharmed. No way to know how it will turn out until after it happens.
 
People often confuse the ability to kill with stopping power and these are not one in the same.
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Just as people often confuse cartridge and firearms specifications with their ability to be used effectively.

Just so I'm not helpless.
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A personal definition of course. I forget where I heard it, the I have heard it said that you're not "helpless" unless you're stark naked and both feet are nailed to the ground....;)

One of the reasons we seem to have more cougar related incidents these days is natural selection, and the environment change WE have created by restricting or eliminating cougar hunting.

We are now several cat generations down the road without hunting pressure in many areas, and lots of cougars have grown up with little or no fear of man, or dogs.

My state basically ended cougar hunting with dogs, or baiting or trapping them a couple decades ago. The is still a hunting season for cougar, but without dogs or bait, few people bother, these days.

One result of this is that instead of the state making a little bit of money in hunting license fees, the state is now having to hire people (usually with dogs) and pay to have "nuisance cougars" taken out. Last I heard cost was over $2million a year, average, and that was several years ago.
 
Interesting info 44AMP. I have read that Eastern Black bears were initially very aggressive toward early Colonists, until they learned to associate humans with guns and getting shot….
 
Animals, both individually and as a group, do learn, react, and adapt to situations. The better and faster they do it, the more likely they are to survive. Natural selection, at work.

Animals that have been hunted and survive, quickly learn what things constitute a danger. Young learn from older animals, parents, pride, herd, troop, pod, flock, what ever it is. When man enters some new factor into their environment, they learn and adapt.

And, not always in ways we expect or predict.

I've heard, in some areas in Alaska some bears figured out the sound of a shot was a "dinner bell".

Other side of the coin, animals who have learned the sight, sound, scent of man means danger, go out of their way to stay well away from those. Take that away (for any reasons) and over a bit of time, (and not that long in human terms) when man isn't a danger, they don't go out of their way to avoid us. Sometimes, they get curious and get close. When we're not a recognized threat, predators get wondering, we're rather slow, look easy to catch, we might be good to eat.

Nearly all predators are "wired" so that if you act like prey, you ARE prey. And, remember, they are the ones who decide if we act like prey, not us.
 
44 AMP said:
Animals, both individually and as a group, do learn, react, and adapt to situations. The better and faster they do it, the more likely they are to survive. Natural selection, at work.

Animals that have been hunted and survive, quickly learn what things constitute a danger. Young learn from older animals, parents, pride, herd, troop, pod, flock, what ever it is. When man enters some new factor into their environment, they learn and adapt.

And, not always in ways we expect or predict.

I've heard, in some areas in Alaska some bears figured out the sound of a shot was a "dinner bell".

Other side of the coin, animals who have learned the sight, sound, scent of man means danger, go out of their way to stay well away from those. Take that away (for any reasons) and over a bit of time, (and not that long in human terms) when man isn't a danger, they don't go out of their way to avoid us. Sometimes, they get curious and get close. When we're not a recognized threat, predators get wondering, we're rather slow, look easy to catch, we might be good to eat.

Nearly all predators are "wired" so that if you act like prey, you ARE prey. And, remember, they are the ones who decide if we act like prey, not us.
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This applies to human predators as well.
 
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