Is 5 rounds enough?
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Brian Williams
New member
If I thought 5 rounds was enough I would not carry a couple of speed strips or speed loaders for my revo's nor would I have bought the full cap mags for my Glock. I appreciate your concern that I might think that 5 is all I would ever need, no way, but it is 5 more than I ever hope to have to use.
I feel that in my neighborhood if I start walking around with a arsenal on me the kids would figure it out real quick. I have a pretty good rapore <sp> with most of the kids around here and they , many who do not have Dads around like my daddy hugs, keep me in the know about who is doing what around, which gets passed on to the local constabulatory.
I feel that in my neighborhood if I start walking around with a arsenal on me the kids would figure it out real quick. I have a pretty good rapore <sp> with most of the kids around here and they , many who do not have Dads around like my daddy hugs, keep me in the know about who is doing what around, which gets passed on to the local constabulatory.
Robert Foote
New member
Uncle Jeff Said It...
...he once said something to the effect that it was better to have a first class man with a third rate gun (and no doubt that's what he would consider a 5 round snubby to be) than a third rate man with a first class gun.
Too many of these interchanges hinge on guns, bullets, & junk when the real issues are much more about people and their competencies, mental and physical. All guns are just bullet launchers and a minor part of the equation.
I've said enough.
...he once said something to the effect that it was better to have a first class man with a third rate gun (and no doubt that's what he would consider a 5 round snubby to be) than a third rate man with a first class gun.
Too many of these interchanges hinge on guns, bullets, & junk when the real issues are much more about people and their competencies, mental and physical. All guns are just bullet launchers and a minor part of the equation.
I've said enough.
I didn't say anything about cost. My 642 is a compromise; there are better guns and there are worse guns for self-defense, but at least that little sucker is always with me.
Robert Foote hit the proverbial nail on the head with his paraphrasing of Jeff Cooper. That just about says it all.
DAL
Robert Foote hit the proverbial nail on the head with his paraphrasing of Jeff Cooper. That just about says it all.
DAL
StuckintheUK
New member
meat,
Assuming the 3 muggers were just after your wallet, how about just chucking it over to them? Chances are you have then 'dismantled' the situation far better then any firearm could. Failing that you just bought some extra time/ distance while they check out there "takings", a greater advantage than any amount of spare ammo. Just my opinion.
the blind lefty
New member
yes,5 is enough unless your a blood,or a cryp/crip(whatever). one guy speaks to the advantage of the auto,and while it has a few,it can't fire when grabbed.
the reason is deep seated in why some people like revolvers and some don't.after alot of range time and security work i prefer revolvers for self defense.
imagine a time when 3 guys comming at you kept comming when you shot the big one in the middle(?).the auto is a better combat/battle weapon.the revolver is for when a crackhead absorbs the first shot and attempts to grapple.
my ideal gun is a short barrelled,all SS,fixed sighted,caliber of consideration(357 or 45 colt), single finger groove handled,revolver. 6-7 shot 357,5 shot 45.
be a realist.if several guys keep comming at you under fire,you've been a bad boy.they are probably hit men,and you probably screwed their boss.mistaken identity?-that's fate my friend.
the reason is deep seated in why some people like revolvers and some don't.after alot of range time and security work i prefer revolvers for self defense.
imagine a time when 3 guys comming at you kept comming when you shot the big one in the middle(?).the auto is a better combat/battle weapon.the revolver is for when a crackhead absorbs the first shot and attempts to grapple.
my ideal gun is a short barrelled,all SS,fixed sighted,caliber of consideration(357 or 45 colt), single finger groove handled,revolver. 6-7 shot 357,5 shot 45.
be a realist.if several guys keep comming at you under fire,you've been a bad boy.they are probably hit men,and you probably screwed their boss.mistaken identity?-that's fate my friend.
5 shots in most situations should be sufficient. In the case mentioned, 3 muggers possibly armed, it would probably be enough as by the time you have shot the second one down, the third guy is usually running away. In most cases just pulling the gun is sufficient. It not shooting the first one usually breaks their confidence.
However, for the sake of argument, if each one of the 3 is intent upon killing you, and has the intestinal fortitude to stand and fire no matter what, then you are facing 3 assassins, not muggers, and no matter what gun you have you are in serious trouble, unless you are very quick and very accurate with your gun. For those who fear that situation or who may be in it, they should by all means, carry a weapon with greater firepower, and possibly a back-up weapon, and possibly a bullet-proof vest.
However, for the sake of argument, if each one of the 3 is intent upon killing you, and has the intestinal fortitude to stand and fire no matter what, then you are facing 3 assassins, not muggers, and no matter what gun you have you are in serious trouble, unless you are very quick and very accurate with your gun. For those who fear that situation or who may be in it, they should by all means, carry a weapon with greater firepower, and possibly a back-up weapon, and possibly a bullet-proof vest.
the blind lefty
New member
frankly,i think if your bent on"what if",the industry is making guns light enough to carry both an airweight revolver,and a polymer framed auto.i just don't like to be getting to the point of skipping moist towelettes,for a magazine of bullets.the concealed weapon of the average consumer is along the lines of say a leatherman. freedom of movement/comfort vs. carrying a box of tools around the mall/zoo/park.
the one thing i remember is that we're all on the same side. if one day we're in a bank together when it's robbed,i don't want you looking over and smirk"told ya so",when you hull out your H&K SMG,and rapelling gear.
the one thing i remember is that we're all on the same side. if one day we're in a bank together when it's robbed,i don't want you looking over and smirk"told ya so",when you hull out your H&K SMG,and rapelling gear.
the blind lefty
New member
P.S:that wasn't aimed at you scotjute.we see eye to eye because i was born in texas(san antonio).my parents moved us to ohio when i was very young.now that i'm 35 i've contemplated going home,as i have alot of family there.
Dunno if this plows any new ground, but a J-frame in the pocket beat the hell out of a Glock 20 in the glove box. It is a matter of tradeoffs, convenience vs. effectiveness. BUT... if you leave your Wunder9 or Thunder40 on the bedside table even 10 or 15% of the time because it's too hot, or you're only popping down to the grocery, or out to the mailbox, then the J-frame is vastly superior.
There are no handguns available that are absolutely guaranteed to guard us against any conceivable circumstance. Y'know, the "Suppose you piss off the local Hell's Angels, then what, huh? See?? Car15 under a coat is the ONLY way to go...". Some small consolation for us Chief's Specialists.... 99.99% of the time, no need to draw down. 98% of the time we draw down, no shots fired. 99% (or some high number) of the time, 3 shots or fewer are fired. Let's do the math.....99.99998% of the time, my snubbie is plenty. Works for me.
There are no handguns available that are absolutely guaranteed to guard us against any conceivable circumstance. Y'know, the "Suppose you piss off the local Hell's Angels, then what, huh? See?? Car15 under a coat is the ONLY way to go...". Some small consolation for us Chief's Specialists.... 99.99% of the time, no need to draw down. 98% of the time we draw down, no shots fired. 99% (or some high number) of the time, 3 shots or fewer are fired. Let's do the math.....99.99998% of the time, my snubbie is plenty. Works for me.
deputy tom
New member
guess what?
Robert Foote hit the proverbial nail on the head with his paraphrasing of Jeff Cooper. That just about says it all.
DAL
I read in some gun publication(American Handgunner?) that Jeff Cooper carries a J-Frame daily.No flame,just what I read.tom.
Robert Foote hit the proverbial nail on the head with his paraphrasing of Jeff Cooper. That just about says it all.
DAL
I read in some gun publication(American Handgunner?) that Jeff Cooper carries a J-Frame daily.No flame,just what I read.tom.
bushjumper
Inactive
is 5 rounds enough?
I've recently been asking myself that exact same question. See, I have a Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum. I like it because it is small, light, and reliable.
However, I am leary of the fact that it is a 5 shot revolver.
I actually JUST sold it, and I loved that gun, but...it was only five shots, and the darn rubber grips printed when I carried it. I think if it wasn't for the grip system and the fact that non-printing concealable grips for it are not readily available, I would have kept it. But, now, I'll be carrying either a Delta Elite in 10mm or a Colt Commercial in .45.
I've recently been asking myself that exact same question. See, I have a Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum. I like it because it is small, light, and reliable.
However, I am leary of the fact that it is a 5 shot revolver.
I actually JUST sold it, and I loved that gun, but...it was only five shots, and the darn rubber grips printed when I carried it. I think if it wasn't for the grip system and the fact that non-printing concealable grips for it are not readily available, I would have kept it. But, now, I'll be carrying either a Delta Elite in 10mm or a Colt Commercial in .45.
Vladimir_Berkov
New member
I honestly can't think of a situation that a 5-shot snub with speedloaders couldn't solve but a semi-auto with a 6-17 round mag could.
A handgun is a mediocre weapon at best, whether it is a snub .38 or a Desert Eagle. If a .38 snub is no good against multiple assailants, then is a Glock 19 any good against an assailant with a shotgun or rifle? I guess the logical solution is to carry a longarm at all times. Picking a carry gun is all about compromise. There IS no gun that will solve all problems, and the likelyhood of a problem arrising that a you would survive if you had a high-cap semi-auto but would not if only armed with a J-frame, is VERY, VERY slight.
A handgun is a mediocre weapon at best, whether it is a snub .38 or a Desert Eagle. If a .38 snub is no good against multiple assailants, then is a Glock 19 any good against an assailant with a shotgun or rifle? I guess the logical solution is to carry a longarm at all times. Picking a carry gun is all about compromise. There IS no gun that will solve all problems, and the likelyhood of a problem arrising that a you would survive if you had a high-cap semi-auto but would not if only armed with a J-frame, is VERY, VERY slight.
There's another phenomena at work here, as well, I think ...
Intellectually, I know that the average number of rounds fired in L/E recorded gunfights went up from between 2-3 (I dislike decimals in statistics) when revolvers were predominantly carried, to 4-5 rounds after the transition to semi-autos. Most reviews seem to indicate the reason for the increase wasn't an increase in violence, but an increase in the number of rounds fired because more rounds were available ... spray & pray, to use the crude term ...
So, while I know that 5 rounds should be sufficient, I still sometimes lean toward the higher capacity weapons for off duty carry. Particularly when I'm traveling farther away from home, for whatever reason ...
The lure of extra rounds is somehow reassuring, sometimes, isn't it? Doesn't mean it's realistic ... but it's that way sometimes ...
For me, anway ...
Intellectually, I know that the average number of rounds fired in L/E recorded gunfights went up from between 2-3 (I dislike decimals in statistics) when revolvers were predominantly carried, to 4-5 rounds after the transition to semi-autos. Most reviews seem to indicate the reason for the increase wasn't an increase in violence, but an increase in the number of rounds fired because more rounds were available ... spray & pray, to use the crude term ...
So, while I know that 5 rounds should be sufficient, I still sometimes lean toward the higher capacity weapons for off duty carry. Particularly when I'm traveling farther away from home, for whatever reason ...
The lure of extra rounds is somehow reassuring, sometimes, isn't it? Doesn't mean it's realistic ... but it's that way sometimes ...
For me, anway ...
I talked to an officer from the LA area. He was in an armed confrontation off duty. I forget the details, but he was armed with his 5 shot 38 special.
Initially there was only one suspect. Then two other suspects joined in (after the shooting started!) They didn't run off like most would ASSUME (Pray for).
The officer expended his 5 rounds and ended up using the gun as a club. He had a spare reload, but there was no time to reload because of the close quarters. He said he NEEDED more rounds IN THE GUN! As he told the story he was very emotional. He almost lost his life!
Now he always has a full size auto with him & spare magazines. Did he make mistakes? Yes. One mistake was engaging with a 5 shot weapon (the officer's own opinion, not mine).
My opinion:
High crime areas= Carry full / medium size auto of your choice.
Low crime areas= 5 rounds of 38 special is bare minimum.
Initially there was only one suspect. Then two other suspects joined in (after the shooting started!) They didn't run off like most would ASSUME (Pray for).
The officer expended his 5 rounds and ended up using the gun as a club. He had a spare reload, but there was no time to reload because of the close quarters. He said he NEEDED more rounds IN THE GUN! As he told the story he was very emotional. He almost lost his life!
Now he always has a full size auto with him & spare magazines. Did he make mistakes? Yes. One mistake was engaging with a 5 shot weapon (the officer's own opinion, not mine).
My opinion:
High crime areas= Carry full / medium size auto of your choice.
Low crime areas= 5 rounds of 38 special is bare minimum.
Just a thought or two on Jato's episode. Law-enforcement is a bit more exacting than self-defense. In the over-whelming majority of armed confrontations that citizens will normally encounter, a 5-shot revolver would be sufficient. The biggest item is usually just having a gun present.
Agree though that if you're confronted with 3 or more armed bad guys who are willing to stand their ground and shoot it out, a 5-shot revolver is a bit lacking. Frankly, a 6-shot revolver would still be lacking, as would a semi-auto. In my opinion, short of carrying an Uzi and wearing body armor, weaponry alone is not normally going to be sufficient to overcome 3-to-1 odds in a close encounter shoot-out with what amounts to determined assassins.
Glad to hear the officer came out alive and in one piece out of that incident.
Agree though that if you're confronted with 3 or more armed bad guys who are willing to stand their ground and shoot it out, a 5-shot revolver is a bit lacking. Frankly, a 6-shot revolver would still be lacking, as would a semi-auto. In my opinion, short of carrying an Uzi and wearing body armor, weaponry alone is not normally going to be sufficient to overcome 3-to-1 odds in a close encounter shoot-out with what amounts to determined assassins.
Glad to hear the officer came out alive and in one piece out of that incident.
Any gun is better than no gun.
I'm a big proponent of the "always gun" idea. I think Jim Cirillo spoke of it. The .38 snub (or equivalent) should always be on you, and a Serious Fighting Handgun (TM) should be strapped on as needed.
Not every CCW can conceal a full-size handgun. But I would feel a lot better with a Glock 26/27 or a Kahr than a 5-shot snubby. Heck, if someone made a 5-shot auto in a serious caliber, I'd prefer that to the snubby.
I'm a big proponent of the "always gun" idea. I think Jim Cirillo spoke of it. The .38 snub (or equivalent) should always be on you, and a Serious Fighting Handgun (TM) should be strapped on as needed.
Not every CCW can conceal a full-size handgun. But I would feel a lot better with a Glock 26/27 or a Kahr than a 5-shot snubby. Heck, if someone made a 5-shot auto in a serious caliber, I'd prefer that to the snubby.
Great idea! I'll just make sure to bring Jerry Miculek along everywhere I go... the only thing better than a CCW is a CCPerson. "Say hello to my little friend! Wait... anyone got a pact timer and some bowling pins?!?"
Personally, I carry a .45 with 7+1. I would prefer to carry more... cause I'm a spaz. However, it's a good trade off in capacity vs. big holes. I'm still a spaz, though. I'm probably best served by curing my spazasicty than by upgrading to a .44MAG snubby handcannon or a 9mm bullet hose.
Still... if all I had was a .38, a .380, a .22 or even just a lighter and a can of hair spray, I'd rather have that than just taking on the bad guy with harsh language and the stench of me soiling myself.
KEN CHAVEZ
New member
Every time this question comes up I can think of only one answer.
If you don't feel comfortable that a particular gun will save your life then don't use it. Buy a gun that YOU feel certain will defend your life. For me I feel comfortable with my five round, J-Frame, but remember it's my life, and my daughters life that I am defending not yours. It's up to YOU to defend your own life, and no one else, so pick what YOU feel comfortable with.
If you don't feel comfortable that a particular gun will save your life then don't use it. Buy a gun that YOU feel certain will defend your life. For me I feel comfortable with my five round, J-Frame, but remember it's my life, and my daughters life that I am defending not yours. It's up to YOU to defend your own life, and no one else, so pick what YOU feel comfortable with.