Is 30 Carbine the Round of the Future?

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Yeah, you are right, thanks for pointing that out. I am posting in on breaks in between loading some .38 Specials and cleaning some guns for tonights shooting session. And, math is not one of my strong suits. For that matter, I don't know if I really have any strong suits.

"Apparently facts don't exactly fit your's either"


See, this is what I am talking about. When you dare to question the .30 Carbine, the replies are usually venomous.

FWIW: that load I referenced earlier (that is no longer published by Alliant) showed the .357 110 grain at 2100 fps. I never got that out of my handguns (I got that and more out of my Marlin lever action), but I did come very close to 2000 fps. Again, this is no longer a published load, so it is sort of a red herring, but, it was published at the time the other thread took place.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with owning and enjoying the .30 Carbine. But the thread title was: Is .30 Carbine the Round of the Future. Again, I say no. And my bad math skills aside, I think it is clear that the round is mediocre at best. SIMILAR to a .357 handgun. Now a .357 handgun is a very desirable thing. But, when you put something with similar ballistics into a 5 pound, 35 inch long platform.............

.30 M1 Carbines are a lot of fun. Let's leave it at that.
 
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The .30 Carbine in THE sacred cow of the shooting world.
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Certainly one of them. US military cartridges and rifles in general tend to get that treatment. In some cases like the .308 I'd say it's deserved. In others, maybe not so much.
 
Even I'LL say...

This subject has been "beaten to death". You'll not change my mind about buying another M1 Carbine. It works well for the purpose it was designed (personal defense work for ranges out to 100 yards).

The .30 Carbine, properly loaded, has a 110 grain bullet that leaves the 18" barrel at 1990 fps, generating 967 fpe. At 100 yards, it is still stepping along at 1592 fps and churning out 619 foot pounds of energy. Brassfetchers ballistic testing illustrates how well the .30 Carbine performs with soft point ammunition.

I don't care how well the M4 AR-15 works out to 300 or 400 yards. This is immaterial. If I wanted to shoot at those ranges, I would use either a .30-'06 Springfield or a .308 Winchester in the appropriate rifle. I have no need for the 5.56 x 45, regardless of popularity. While I have nothing against it, frankly it bores me. There's no need for it when I have a larger (308./30-'06) rifle cartridge available.

In a house-to-house or house clearing (personal defense) role within 100 yards. The .30 Carbine is more than adequate in this role. It will outperform the handgun out to the distance of a football field. That's enough power and accuracy for what it necessary to secure the home front as well as a number of other mid-range applications.

The .30 Carbine meets, and exceeds HD/PD and Varminting needs and the .22 "zoomenshooter" would be entirely vestigial in my arsenal. I can find no earthly use for it.

If you like the cartridge, enjoy it. Remember that it is best served when shooting in an 18" Carbine length barrel.

Good luck in your decision.
 
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.30Carbine =Last Deer?

If new law in In.stands,I'll take my last deer Nov.2016.My Carbine,a Winchester,started in Oct.'43, and to 75yds.is very humane and efficient!v
 
Definitely dead for military use.
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Agree - and it's obsolete for 90% of most other uses, short of collectability, Sunday afternoon plinking, or the occasional sniping on a groundhog or coyote.
 
Things are always changing... The Army is considering bring back large numbers of the M14 for use in Afghanistan. The M4 that the average troops are using, just does not have the range and knock down power needed in the open terrain that most are fighting in now.
 
The CCW / PDW aspect of the 30 Carbine was and is intriguing; especially in a Hague Convention / UN Convention way. Not a Signatory / Only Partial Signatory.

Change out the FMJ Round Nose to another "Compliant Form" think 5.45 x 39 7N6 type and you have an interesting CCW possibility. Again we need to seperate the round from the gun that fires it. This is something that could be shoveled into an AR or equivelent platform. But with this round most everyone equates the ammo with the platform.
 
*sigh* Another damned AR.

"Hey, Kids! Just when you think the AR market couldn't stand an addition to it's already glutted niche, we'll introduce yet another useless clone"! :eek: :rolleyes:

The cartridge is already in a light rifle (yes, light rifle) that's *gasp* :eek: even lighter than an AR of similar size!

Come on, let's "reinvent the wheel" and add even more weight!

What a stellar idea! :rolleyes:
 
Things are always changing ... * * * The M4 that the average troops are using, just does not have the range and knock down power needed in the open terrain that most are fighting in now.
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Dudenal, ... seriously? :eek:

I hope you're not suggesting the U.S. Military is going to dump a well-established 5.56mm weapon for one chambered for the more underpowered and much less accurate 30 Carbine? Hmmmm? :rolleyes:
 
As I posted on page 1, I'm fond of the M1 Carbine platform for a HD weapon even though I have many different platforms and calibers to choose from. While I have 3 ARs, I'm not that fond of 'Barbie® of rifles' in 5.56 for HD (you can dress them any way you want) because of their bulk and both their flash and blast. Further, my wife and other women I've trained to shoot, all prefer a weapon the size of a Ruger Mini or M1 Carbine over the more bulky AR. So, for my uses the 30 Carbine rd and platform works better, however, YMMV.

That said, the OP was talking about the caliber in a new carbine, not the M1 Carine platform and while the 30 Carbine caliber works decently, I'd favor a different caliber in a carbine that was much like the M1 Carbine but different. I'd favor a carbine in 357mag. Yes, not a 300 BO but the larger, 38 caliber bullet that can produce slightly higher velocities at higher bullet weights than the 300 BO, the 357mag.

In fact, one was already produced but in 44mag instead; the Ruger Deerfield Carbine. Yes, Ruger chambered it in 44mag and it only had a 4rd rotary mag, much like the 10/22's. However, if Ruger could come up with a 20rd mag that fed the rimmed 357mag cartridge reliably, I think it would be an instant winner as a shorter range (200yd) SD/HD carbine. Consider a comparison of the ballistics of both the 30 Carbine and 357mag in similar sized, 18" barreled carbines.

M1 Carbine shooting the 30 Carbine:
110grn, .308" bullet @ 1,940fps producing 919ft/lbs of Muzzle Energy in an 18" Barrel.

Ruger Mini357 Carbine shooting the 357mag:
158grn, .357" bullet @ 1,977fps producing 1,371ft/lbs of Muzzle Energy in an 18" Barrel.

At the 357mag carbine velocity levels I used above from my 20" Rossi Carbine levergun, the .357" bullet of the 357mag produces a larger hole, is 40% heavier, and produces 50% more muzzle energy than the 110grn 30 Carbine rd from a similar length barrel. Further, in my 24" Rossi 357mag levergun, I shoot Zero brand 158grn JSP bullets very accurately at 200 and even out to 300 yds.

Further, one should note that Buffalo Bore sells their 158grn 'Heavy 357mag' loads they claim produce 2,153fps and 1,626ft/lbs of Muzzle Energy from an 18" Marlin levergun. Using those significantly higher numbers, their 158grn, 357mag load again produces a larger hole, is still 40% heavier, butd produces a staggering 75% more muzzle energy than the 110grn 30 Carbine rd from a similar length barrel. It should be noted that, 357mag bullets are currently available in weights from 110grns to 200grns and all were designed to be loaded in '357mag cylinder length' loads.

As far as down range performance; the ballistic coefficients of the two calibers compare favorably as the 110grn RN 30 Carbine is .286 and the 158grn JSP 357mag is .302 so longer range velocities will degrade about the same. Further, I shoot my 158grn 357mag loads at steel plates at as far as 300yds with surprising accuracy, much farther than even my new AO M1 Carbine is capable of shooting with any decent accuracy.

So, for my money, I'd vote for Ruger to develop a 20rd mag for their Ruger Deerfield Carbine and re-introduce it chambered in 357mag. I for one would buy it the first day it was offered.
 
You're right, Steve. My question is: How many .357 Magnum self-loaders will we see being built?

*crickets*

I didn't think so. :eek: ;) :D

By the way, I own a Rossi Model 92 lever-action 20" barreled Carbine and it shoots just fine!

Cheers
 
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