IRS being hung on it's own petard...

You guys can joke and belittle this stuff all you want and it doesn't make it false. Humor is fine, but its a defensive reaction to something that stirs you inside that you don't WANT to believe is possible, so deny it and crack a joke instead. Feel better now? :D
 
One proof that so-called psychics (e.g. "Miss Cleo") are a sham is that they aren't getting rich on the stock market.

A similar proof suggests itself for "income taxes are illegal" and "allodial title." Those people with the most to gain by using your loopholes, don't.

-z
 
Edward-
I may be belittling the statement, but don't take it personally. After all, you are the one who put it out for examination.

I don't disagree that Income Taxes are wholly illegal. They've never been ratified into law. But when you start expanding that to include ALL REALTORS in a Code of Silence, I just have to laugh....I'm sorry. Most of these guys would take EACH Other's lungs for a sale; let alone work together to hold info back from you.

This is the stuff of Urban Legend. We take a bit of the facts, mix with a large dollup of "And Then's" and, before you know it, the US Government is about to announce that it's debt has been called and all US land is now owned by a foreign bank. (That IS, essentially, what you claimed.)

Please think before you post this kinda stuff.
Rich
 
Actually Rich, my joke about it statement was more to Bluesman than you and was intended on the light side as evidenced by the smiley. I didn't take it personally, but did smell the air of disbelief, and honestly its a little frustrating to hear such talk from self professed freedomeers, who can hear snippets of the truth and yet reject it outright, without so much as even considering it or doing any homework on the subject.

Happens all the time here on TFL. We'll fight for our gunrights and freedoms, we believe in the Constitution, and by the way, where is it legal to carry my gun? :rolleyes:

I think you're jumping to unfounded conclusions by calling this stuff urban legend. Thats based on what? An assumption of extremist propaganda? Without any homework to back it up? C'mon. You have to be smarter than that. I did a search for Allodial title and came up with a zillion hits to read. Why don't you guys do some reading on the issue and then come back to poke holes in it instead of just dismissing it out of hand (because it might put you at odds with the current system?) out of fear? Please include the term "Land Patent" with your search because it would apply to the land and not just the house.

Nobody WANTS to be at odds with the gubmint. But I have yet to be dubunked on the issue. Just feel good off the cuff statements implying that I'm overboard/ obviously wrong on the issue. I'm not being argumentitive and don't want to be. But how about addressing the issue beyond 'I can't believe it, never heard of it so it must be false'?

Standing by... :)

PS..

it's debt has been called and all US land is now owned by a foreign bank. (That IS, essentially, what you claimed.)

That is exactly what I meant, and the way that I understand it. Want the book?
 
If people knew that jewelery was marked up 1000%, the jewelrey market would crash. (Master Jeweler for friend). Your 1000 dollar ring you bought your wife cost the jeweler around 100 bucks max.

My wife is a graduate gemologist, and her family is heavily in the jewelry business. My father-in-law is a lapidary, and my mother-in-law is a jeweler...between them, they run two jewelry stores. I can tell you for a fact that nobody marks up jewelry 1000%. Without going into trade secrets, I can assure you that the actual markup on most items is much less than that, and even the most favorable markup on low-ticket items doesn't even come close to half the margin you claim.
 
Sorry Marko, didn't mean to step on your toes (or any jeweler present) with that analogy. I'm certainly no jeweler, but one of our close friends is and my wife does his books, inventory, ordering and other tasks for him and it is so at least in this one shop. Maybe I based my anology on the exception to the rule here. I'm sure the markup isn't 1000% on every single item...but alot IS.

She brought the mans inventory home with her to count and reorder a couple times (racks upon racks of diamonds & gems in little containers in safe rack drawers) and I got a huge eye opener by asking her questions about them.

I just assumed it was the same across the board for most jewelers. Sorry.
 
I've heard from a friend that his father was paid in gold bullion(don't know how that works), and therefore didn't have to pay taxes. Someone shed light on this?

I'm inclined to talk to a tax lawyer about the "in leiu of W-4" thing. I'd imagine he'd be interested in making some money on this.
 
Edward429451
It's section 3402n of the tax code. The caveat that most people do not realize is that filling out the W-4 form IS THE PERMISSION SLIP FOR THEM TO DO IT, or rather for your employer to do it which leaves the gubmint blameless in the whole thing. The tax code is based on self assemt and voluntary compliance. If you assess yourself and fill out the W-4 in compliance and error, thats your problem and not theirs, get it?

Yep; when you fill out and sign a W-4, and file a 1040, you are entering into a contract with the IRS. The problem of course is that employers are bound by regulation to have you sign it, or presto - no job.

Say, I am familiar with allodial Titles - what is the title and author/publisher of the book? A similar subject is the Warranty Deed Title for private motor vehicles; this is a glorified lease. The Certificate of Origin - the exclusive title of ownership goes to the State when you apply for a vehicle registration.

Here is an example of the process - in this case Nevada;

"NRS 361.900 Application for establishment of allodial title; calculation of payment required; issuance of certificate.

7. The homeowner shall pay the installments directly to the state treasurer and shall continue to pay the current property taxes directly to the county during the period for which the installment payments are made."

http://nevadatreasurer.gov/specialprograms/allodial/NRS.html
 
Edward-

I'm not picking on you, but you insist on hunting this dog, so here goes.

I'll admit that my knowledge of Allodial Title was sketchy and dates back to my own years researching Individual Sovereignty. So, I've circled back on my research.

First a bit of history:
Allodial Title came into existence after the Treaty of Paris (Revolutionary War) when all lands were granted to the people of the US, free of encumbrances....Allodial Title.

The first issue is Federal land....since all un-deeded land in 1776 essentially became the property of the Federal Government, your predecessors "bought it" from the Feds....complete with restrictions as to its "ownership". You might be able to petition the Courts, your Title Company and Bureau of Land Management to provide you a number for buy-out of all liens. You'd then have Allodial Title....to the land only; not the buildings or improvements. Of course, from a practical matter, you'd never notice a difference.

The second issue is local property taxes which apply to the land AND improvements. Unlike the illegal Income Tax, local jurisdictions began to levy taxes on real estate and other property to pay for highways, sanitation, schools, defense and the like. Conceptually, these are hardly unreasonable taxes, though we might each argue locally over the way monies are spent.

So, today when you buy a house or a car, it's subject to an ongoing Tax Lien to pay for these items. Bloated? Possibly. Reasonable in concept? Absolutely. Legal? You betcha. (Again, unlike the federal Income tax.)

Now, on to your "little known secret": Protecting your home from taxes and receiving an Allodial Title:
- There's much talk of this by Personal Sovereignty groups, so I really don't understand why the information is housed in one, single $300 book....the name and author of which you haven't provided. Fear not, I think there may actually be a SECOND Book at deep discount! Somebody's already getting rich on my previous idea! http://www.livetaxfree.com/trueland.htm

Except for Nevada (will return to that in a second), here's what you do:
1) Pay off all personal mortgages and liens on your property.
2) Research the Court records to find EVERY, SINGLE debt owed by your community for which you, as property owner are partially responsible.
3) Seek out each of the owners of those debts (presumably every individual Bond Holder of the local Sewer, Water or Bridge Bond, for instance).
4) Get them to sign a Release of just your portion of that debt, in return for negotiated prepayment from you.
5) Go to the Tax Assessor, present your evidence, and petition (through the Courts, if necessary) for Allodial Title.

You're free and clear.....or are you? All you've done is to prepay the legal taxes that you've accumulated thus far. There is some question as to whether you might be liable for new community debts going forward. Be that as it may, the purpose of Allodial Title is to protect your home from foreclosure; not a loophole to get you out of your tax liability.

Allodial Title scams have been around for a long time; hand-in-hand with Lichtenstein trusts (I once had one for liability reasons), Cayman Island Accounts and statements of Individual Sovereignty...they truly are money makers: for the lawyers.

Nevada's 1997 law provides a clear departure. In Nevada, you can achieve Allodial Title Dreams by prepaying about 5 years of property taxes (5% of assessed value) on your single family residence....AFTER paying off all mortgages and liens. Whether this action frees you from Federal "ownership" of the land is unknown to me....to my knowledge, TX was the only State that did not hand title of all lands to the Feds.

In short, the benefits of Allodial Title are basically Urban Legend; spread by those with a whiff of information and a hint of a secret book that will get you there. Claims that every realtor in the nation conspires to keep the information from the general public are, ummmm.....grossly exaggerated.

Have I done enough of your homework for you? ;)
Rich
 
Its called "Allodial and Patent Land Property Titles", Author unknown, Published by Prosperity Publishers c/o 17011Beach Blvd #900, Hunington Beach CA.,92647


So basically, we were sold out from the inception of the country. Makes perfect sense in a sick way. They've adulterated it incrementally with regulations and restrictions just like everything else. People don't realize it so buy into it. I should've known.

OK someone tell them to change the words of the song..."This land is my lease, this land is your lease... :mad:

And those landowners who have long held the real allodial titles...eminent domain will catch up with them one by one. Sounds like we were born into slavery to put it bluntly.

I wouldn't have a problem with property taxes even if an A. title holder. Upkeep & improvements in the community in which we live is reasonable. So where is the advantage in being a property owner at all anymore? Sure your (rent) payment would (maybe) be lower, but would be offset if not exceeded by the property taxes that you'd buy into. What a crock this country is. Freedom indeed. :rolleyes:

Yeah Rich, thats enough. Between you & LAK, I understand that there's little to no hope for the people of America. I stand down from my soapbox now.

If everything including property ownership is an illusion, wherein does the hopes and dreams of the people lie? Subjecation to the State isn't freedom or a life. Apparently, freedom is off planet. Did they slip when they let us have guns? Or just the logistical problem of collecting them way back then so wait until they're ready, like now or real soon. OK the State owns my rifles, let them come get them. Nothing else to lose but life and I look forward to life off planet. Feel free to poke holes in my no hope theory (beyond God) now! :D

Is life so dear or peace so sweet so as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Hmmm?
 
It's pretty bleak, Edward.....but not completely black yet.

This is the History of Civilzation and Government. Any time you have more than two or three people sharing resources, a governing body becomes desired and necessary (to avoid vote by brute force).

There is not a government (or any other bureaucracy) in the history of this planet that hasn't sought to perpetuate it's own existence....that's a natural law. But freedom is immutable as to quantity....there is a fixed quantity of it, and it can neither be created or destroyed; only transferred. Government grows by the transfer of individual freedoms to the collective.....and People would rather give up rights than current comforts of conformity. It's pure math.....right up to the date that people recognize they've given far more than they're getting. And so the Life Cycle of Civilization and Government repeats itself.

To my mind the real danger comes when we start believing that a natural (though ugly) cycle is somehow being scripted, in advance, by Dark Overlords; Handlers; Illuminati. At that point, your claims become too shrill to carry past your own ears and your effectiveness is negated.

Back to the Illegal Federal Income Tax. People need to know about it....calmly. It hits them where they most notice.

A great column on fighting the Good fight, from a True Outlaw who Knows:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/columns/wolfe050315.html
Rich
 
We need to get out of reactive mode. We need to stop caroming around like a smacked pool ball every time bad news strikes us. We need to "keep our eyes on the prize" and have a strategy that moves us toward our long-term objectives.

Interesting and light spirited article, but what is the prize or objective? Correcting the system to be as it should? With a standing army in place? MJTF would make short work of any wacked out disillusioned freedom thinkers and spraying it on the media would then reinforce their agenda towards the general public. I'm not sure what it is that I as a citizen can do to help our country. I do not believe that writing congresscritters does any good. I did that for a stint.

Getting out of reactive mode means to me to get proactive. But where to start and with what resources? They've got the (budgeteers) watching the flow of money, and seemingly tweak the economy to become more expensive so the people do not have any extra money to do anything.

Starve the beast by not paying taxes? If it was a collective effort, it would have a serious impact for sure, but so many people are so scared of the gubmint that they will lay down their spirit of resistance in an effort to pursue their peaceful dreams.

I was tax free for awhile. Did all the certified mailtag with them, never got any reasonable answers, only threats. Eventually they put a 56K judgement on my credit, which I laughed at until my wife wanted to buy a house. So in an effort to think of others beyond myself and what I knew to be right, I let her take over communication with the IRS and work it all out so they'd remove the lein and we could buy a home. She did it, we had kept all pertinant papers/receipts, and went to their offices and went through it all, a total audit. It turned out that even by the IRS guidelines, we still didnt owe them any money, they just wanted us in their system. The lein is gone now and we're locked back into the system. But why buy a home now? It don't seem worth it.

Rich, you say you believe the tax system is fraudulant. Do you still pay? I'm guessing yes. Why if you know it to be fraudulant?

This lady who got a favorable ruling...How's that help me & you? I'm totally open for suggestions.
 
OK someone tell them to change the words of the song..."This land is my lease, this land is your lease...
I don't think that Woody Guthrie will be able to comply with your request. ;)
 
alloidial title

http://www.protectyourstuff.com/property.htm

Generally, this exemption is provided for property which is used exclusively for "religious, charitable, health, welfare, fraternal, or educational purposes".

If you understand the concept of property use and enjoyment versus property ownership, then you already understand the asset protection and judgement proofing benefits of giving property away

To all,

There is a guy who has taken this $300 book and has condensed it down to about forty or fifty pages. He sells HIS COPY for $29.95. At least that's what I paid the book vendor at a gun show in Portland Oregon for that information. I then gave the info to my BIL, who had never heard of it, even though he is a RE developer in Texas for more than twenty years. It was news to him. Here is a web site that does just that and you too can buy their 'package' for a mere $695:

http://www.icresource.com/en/corp/atlp.html

THE ALLODIAL TITLE will give you a free and clear piece of land that neither the state nor the federal government can seize or tax. Here is the NEVADA state code that covers this:

http://nevadatreasurer.gov/specialprograms/allodial/NRS.html

Allodial Title Program
NRS 361.900

NRS 361.900 Application for establishment of allodial title; calculation of payment required; issuance of certificate.

1. A person who owns and occupies a single-family dwelling, its appurtenances and the land on which it is located, free and clear of all encumbrances, except any unpaid assessment for a public improvement, may apply to the county assessor to establish allodial title to the dwelling, its appurtenances and the land on which it is located. One or more persons who own such a home in any form of joint ownership may apply for the allodial title jointly if the dwelling is occupied by each person included in the application. The application must be made on a form prescribed by the state treasurer. The county assessor may require that the application be accompanied by a nonrefundable processing fee of not more than $25. If collected, the fee must be deposited in the county general fund and used to pay any expenses incurred by the county in carrying out the provisions of NRS 361.900 to 361.920, inclusive.

NRS 361.905 Duties of state treasurer and county assessor upon issuance of certificate; payment of taxes; deficiencies.

1. Immediately upon the issuance of a certificate of allodial title, the state treasurer shall transmit a copy of the certificate to the county assessor of the county in which the property is located.

2. Upon receipt of such a certificate, the county assessor shall make a notation on the tax roll and collect no further taxes from the allodial titleholder for the property, unless the allodial title is relinquished by the homeowner or his heirs.

You DO have to pay a one time 'assesment' on your property. In Nevada it's $5 for every $100 value, but you only pay it ONCE. Other states 'assesment fee' may be larger or smaller.

AGAIN, most people don't know AND like everyone here DON'T BELIEVE it to be true. It is. But getting your given state to recognize that there is such a thing as an Allodial title may take some doing, as MOST STATES do NOT want to see their citizens property dropped from the tax roles, especially if it's going to be in the family FOR GENERATIONS.
 
Rich, you say you believe the tax system is fraudulant. Do you still pay? I'm guessing yes. Why if you know it to be fraudulant?
Because that's just the beginning of what our Congress Critters do that is fraudulent; because, at a time when I could have renounced citizenship and walked away with every penny from the rightful sale of my business, I toured around a bit and came to the conclusion that the US is still, hands down, the best place in the world; because I am no use, at this point in time, in jail as Cannon Fodder.

Look, even without a government, Life Is Not Fair....but we get the cards we're dealt and play 'em, even with the casino taking a heavy rake. It's all about the Good Fight, Edward. We'll both be gone soon enough...what we did to change things while here is all that matters.

And, by the way, writing those letters DOES matter.
Rich
 
Rich, what you're saying makes just too damn much sense from a practical aspect, and I think I see the wisdom in your words but is it a flawed way of thinking ultimately? Wouldn't that make us a Compromising Sam as that web page you linked discusses?

Its a rock & a hard place thing.

Any frustration with the system is directed back upon us citizens for voting the critters in and letting it continue. Yet people continue to compromise for a little peace or security. And at this point in time, any resistance to them actually helps their agenda and timetable. No wonder people are starting to go off in the courtrooms and shoot deputies on their land and whatnot. They feel pushed to the wall, fight or flight kicks in and there is no flight anymore. I'm led to believe that that Nichols guy was probably a good guy, pushed too far. (Pure speculation with almost no details of his alleged crimes.)

So Allodial titles are much like the tax issue. Not urban legend, but silenced & denied for the benefit of the State. Its SOOO unbelievable, that its hard to fathom such a big conspiracy on such a big scale, I give you that.

It's so far fetched that it gives credence to the Christian doctrine as being feasible. No man is smart enough to implement a worldwide conspiracy. But with demonic help...I could see it and it would explain a lot. I have my flame suit on, so go for it. :D

Wallew, thanks for the more detailed info than I was able to provide. All of us people with tidbits of the truth can't be wrong, it goes against reason, wether some of them are in it for the money only or not.
 
Wouldn't that make us a Compromising Sam as that web page you linked discusses?
Yes and no, depending on your personal line in the sand and your personal limits to reaction. Life is compromise.....we regularly run into people that have no right on Earth to breathe our personal air, but we don't necessarily take action....is that "compromise"? I don't like mosquito bites.....but I won't scratch 'em raw. :)

I'm led to believe that that Nichols guy was probably a good guy, pushed too far.
I don't agree; but then I don't think he was a pre-meditated serial killer type. He had a problem with his rage and his urges, to the point of kidnap and two day torture of his girlfriend.....still, he MADE THE CHOICE to repeatedly rape and torture her and kill four innocent people. See the comment about "line in the sand" above. Yours is not mine; his, according to any civilized human being, was WAY WRONG.....it would have happened in an anarchy.


"Allodial title" is fiction if you think of it in a legal sense (except to the extent NV has resurrected it). There is no such legal term....look it up. It is a term of philosophic description, which says that you own your land, beholden to no man or government. Basically, that you are a sovereign unto yourself; obligated as to nothing to your community.....it DOESN'T WORK, even in a commune.

It's so far fetched that it gives credence to the Christian doctrine as being feasible. No man is smart enough to implement a worldwide conspiracy.
Check your sources. Check your interps of Revelations; Check your teachers. This is a life cycle of civilizations that has gone round for thousands of years....always back to the place it started. That hardly looks like the Devil Winning.

But I'll not fault you if that's the Enemy you choose to identify. I identify the man who would look away from eroding freedoms, in hopes of being kept safe.

That said, religious debates on TFL are pretty much frowned upon, as are Abortion debates. Far too much time for Staff to follow.
Rich
 
I've been looking at Nevada law. Near as I can tell, allodial title means that the money you pay, plus the interest or other income earned on that money will be adequate to pay all future tax liability of the property for a period equal to the life expectancy of the youngest titleholder of the property.

In other words, you put enough money into an account held by the State government that the State Treasurer can use the interest on the account to pay your taxes for you.

Can a math whiz figure this out for me: Say I pay $2000 a year in taxes. How much money would I have to give the State government to generate $2000 dollars a year for the next 60 years at a normal interest rate?

Also, I note in Nevada Law that property held under allodial title is still subject to civil and criminal forfeiture.

LawDog
 
I can't speak for the specific markup on jewelry, but my best friend works for a Jewelry and Loan store (pawn shop). Their main business is jewelry, and they get approximately 75% of it new. They always sell it for 25-50% of what the retail stores sell it for, and they always make a profit. While the markup may not be near 1000%, retail jewlery stores are not hurting on that aspect.
 
Back
Top