Internally lube 1911 mags ?

[rodfac]

I disassemble, where possible, all of my mags at least once a year and lube with a dry lube...Remington for the most part.

The above schedule suffices in my opinion since I do not let my mags drop on on unprotected ground where they can pick up dirt, grass or be damaged by rock etc....I use a tarp when practicing mag changes etc. Nor do I participate in run & gun handgun games of any sort where dropping the mag is essential to be competitive. YMMv Rod

 

[JohnKSa]

We've got more than enough of those to go around, that's for sure.

There are only too many experts when what they disagree with one's personal opinions. When they agree with one's personal opinion then there can never be enough of them.

But we don't have to rely on the opinions of experts, we can also look at manufacturer recommendations. That's pretty much always the best policy anyway. If the manufacturer of your gun has a recommendation on how to maintain magazines, I would follow their recommendation. If they don't specifically say what to do (or not to do), I'd go with the general consensus which is to not oil magazines, rather to leave them dry, or use a dry protectant/lubricant which won't cause residue buildup or attract dirt/dust.

This Larry Vickers? That's the problem with half of these guys. They talk out of both sides of their mouths.

There's more to a gun than just the magazine. One could look at that video and say: "Wow, they dunked that gun in oil to prove it's hard to overlube a gun and they STILL don't recommend oiling magazines." Or, one could ignore the fact that when Vickers put those guns in the "bath" of oil, he left the magazines out and kept them dry to avoid getting oil in them and say that he's being contradictory when he dunks a gun in oil and still recommends against oiling magazines.

I also noted that at the end of the video they point out that the video is intentionally "taking things over the line to prove a point" and not recommended behavior.

So, no, I think it's inaccurate to say that Vickers is talking out of both sides of his mouth when he says to use a lot of lube on the gun but not to oil the magazine.

It's also worthwhile to point out that keeping oil out of magazines isn't due to a fear that they will magically attract dirt and dust out of clean air in the space of time it takes to get them out of a range bag and into the gun at the firing line. It's specifically to prevent magazines that are being carried or sitting for awhile (as in a nightstand gun, for example) from attracting and holding dirt and dust over time.

If you want to lube your magazines for range use, I doubt you'll ever have a problem (although it can happen in guns when shooting especially dirty ammo). On the other hand, if you oil one up and carry it in your pocket for days/weeks before you need to use it, the results could be quite different.

 

[tipoc]

It's also worthwhile to point out that keeping oil out of magazines isn't due to a fear that they will magically attract dirt and dust out of clean air in the space of time it takes to get them out of a range bag and into the gun at the firing line. It's specifically to prevent magazines that are being carried or sitting for awhile (as in a nightstand gun, for example) from attracting and holding dirt and dust over time.

Not lubing mags is also to prevent the oil from migrating, as oil does, to the bullet cases and primer pocket.

I've seen loaded magazines that were kept in a drawer for a few years where the mags were oiled and the oil become stiff and gummed up.

The overall point here is that there is no reason to internally lube magazines. The grease or oil does not keep the mag clean. The movement of the spring in the mag and against the walls of the mag will not wear the spring out due to friction. A dry lube is all that may be needed and even that not usually.

Pay attention to your mags and keep them clean and dry internally and externally. That ain't so hard to do. Periodic maintenance keeps them free of rust inside and out. Rust is a sign that gunk was allowed to build up inside where dirt or congealed oil or grease held moisture in place.

tipoc

 

[bill460]

Rust is a sign that gunk was allowed to build up inside where dirt or congealed oil or grease held moisture in place.

I'm sorry, but this is total nonsense. Oil and grease does NOT, "hold moisture in place". It repels it. And by doing so prevents it from coming into contact with the metal itself. I don't care how dirty it is or isn't. Rust occurs when moisture comes into contact with bare, dry ferrous metal. And oxidation, (read rust), is the result.

This is exactly what grease, oil, and most all petroleum products prevent. This thread has more than run it's course, as far as being useful any longer. It's descended into B.S.

 

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I clean my mags in a sonic cleaner than dip in Ballistol Milk. 10% Ballistol and 90% water. Makes them extremely slick. Some say too slick. They run great. Recently bought a used gun and was having problems with the mags releasing slowly. Took the mags and cleaned them and used the Ballistol and they shot out of the gun.

 

[mikejonestkd]

There are only too many experts when what they disagree with one's personal opinions. When they agree with one's personal opinion then there can never be enough of them.

I completely agree, until this thread I had never even thought to use oil/ lube on the inside of a magazine.

bill460, please find and provide evidence of a manufacturer that recommends lubing a magazine, and I'll be happy to be open to the idea.

 

[tipoc]

I'm sorry, but this is total nonsense. Oil and grease does NOT, "hold moisture in place". It repels it.

I said...

Rust is a sign that gunk was allowed to build up inside where dirt or congealed oil or grease held moisture in place.

Congealed, meaning old semi solid or mostly solid lumps of old grease that has held dirt and powder in place for periods of time. This can allow rust to begin to form. Older congealed grease does not "repel" moisture. It can however hold dirt to itself which can retain any moisture that it comes in contact with.

That of course is not the only cause of rust forming. Most of those cases involve negligence in keeping the mags dry and clean. A bit of cold blue can help if there are deep scratches in the mags before any rust forms.

Mags rarely get rusty unless ignored. That's why lubing them with oil or grease is rare. It just doesn't help. Graphite does help.

I don't pretend to be an expert. I do know what I've seen though.

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

If folks aren't convinced well try a test. do a few mags one way and a equal number differently. Give it a few years and see how things work out.

 

[JohnKSa]

Not lubing mags is also to prevent the oil from migrating, as oil does, to the bullet cases and primer pocket.

Yes, that's another concern, but again, it's not something that's going to be a short term problem when you're loading and shooting at the range. It's only an issue for mags that will be left loaded for some significant period of time.

In other words, oiling mags doesn't cause the kind of issues that a person would expect to encounter at the range where mags are loaded and then fired empty within a few minutes. It has the potential to cause problems in mags that are left loaded for awhile.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

I don't think anyone is advocating squirting oil in magazines.
I'm of the opinion that mag internals DO need maintenance with oil. Mag springs will rust. When they rust, they'll beak. Magazine walls can rust if they come into contact with moisture.
And, old grease/oil does not promote rust.
Just clean them, oil them, and wipe them dry.

 

[bill460]

If folks aren't convinced well try a test. do a few mags one way and a equal number differently. Give it a few years and see how things work out.

I've already done that. In fact, I've "given it" exactly 46 years when I purchased my first semi auto weapon with a detachable magazine back in 1973. (A Colt Gold Cup). I have never had a single issue with dirt "gumming up my magazines".

As I said before, this is simply common sense. Using oil or grease as a rust preventative is almost as old as time itself. What kind, along with how much, and how often it should be applied, as well as cleaned, is all in play.

We have been through much of this nonsense with the AR-15 / M-16 rifle. People were clamoring on about how using too much lubricant in, "the sandbox" would cause rifles to malfunction. The government conducted test after test, and found it to be hogwash. Heavily lubricated M-16's / AR-15's always had fewer stoppages, regardless of conditions. Over the decades I have seen countless firearms malfunction due to a lack of lubricant. I have NEVER seen one do so because of too much.

Yes, oil and grease will hold dust. It won't "attract it". So if you operate your weapon in a dusty environment, you may want to use less, and clean more often. That doesn't mean it's an automatic death sentence for you and the weapon if you choose to use it. Again, this is common sense, nothing more. It's not a Moon shot.

Firearms manufacturers recommend you don't do a lot of things. For example, every single one of them puts a bold faced warning on the owners manual of every centerfire model they sell, warning NOT to use handloaded ammunition. They tell you it's, "dangerous". And that, "it will automatically void your warranty".... Does everyone participating in this thread adhere to that warning? Why not? The manufacturer warns against it.

I have been keeping a light coating of oil on the surfaces of my firearms, (including the inside of my magazines), since I received my first one almost half a century ago. I have never had an issue because of it. I have also used almost nothing but handloaded ammunition in them for almost the same amount of time..... Again, without a single issue.

Until I do, or until I die, I will continue to do so. Perhaps I just like, "living dangerously".

 

[zeke]

"I don't think anyone is advocating squirting oil in magazines.
I'm of the opinion that mag internals DO need maintenance with oil. Mag springs will rust. When they rust, they'll beak. Magazine walls can rust if they come into contact with moisture.
And, old grease/oil does not promote rust.
Just clean them, oil them, and wipe them dry."

Exactly.
Am guessing most people on this subject are defining "oiling the mag" differently. When am done shooting my pistols, say over 100 rounds with lead reloads, the top internal/follower of the mag is filthy. After cleaning/very lightly oiling (then wiping dry), the working of the follower/spring is noticeably better. And use the same synthetic Mobile 1 oil on my mags as i do on guns. After repeated cleanings the mags are noticeably slicker and in no way "dripping" oil. Better functioning firearm in my experience.

Years ago bought inexpensive sig p210 surplus, and several extra mags. Boy am i glad the mags got dissembled/cleaned/oiled/wiped dry. Now there is no rust, and they be worth some money. Have picked upped numerous used semi auto pistols over the years where the mags were pretty rusted, and hard to disassemble.

Yea and years ago the experts laughed at using Mobile 1.

Ask an old Pa redneck how expert is spelled. Exspurt, and we all are one.

 

[bill460]

..... After cleaning/very lightly oiling (then wiping dry), the working of the follower/spring is noticeably better. And use the same synthetic Mobile 1 oil on my mags as i do on guns. After repeated cleanings the mags are noticeably slicker and in no way "dripping" oil. Better functioning firearm in my experience......Yea and years ago the experts laughed at using Mobile 1....

Mobil 1 is an excellent firearms lubricant and rust preventative. I have never had an issue with rust on anything I have ever used it on.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

We have been through much of this nonsense with the AR-15 / M-16 rifle. People were clamoring on about how using too much lubricant in, "the sandbox" would cause rifles to malfunction. The government conducted test after test, and found it to be hogwash. Heavily lubricated M-16's / AR-15's always had fewer stoppages, regardless of conditions.

Please post links to some of those reports. I have loosely followed the evolution of the M16 rifle since I carried one around southeast Asia for a time, and I have not encountered a single report that suggested anything other than that heavy lube leads to stoppages in dusty environments. It has been my understanding that the U.S. Army issues a "DriSlide" type lubricant for use in places such as Iraq (any place that merits the nickname "the sandbox").

 

[bill460]

Please post links to some of those reports.

This information is out there, and has been for years. If you're that interested in reading up on it, do your own leg work. There have been all but countless articles on how AR-15 / M-16 weapons run better wet. They're everywhere. Most likely right here on this forum, if you really want to look for them.

You cannot over lube an AR because of the direct impingement gas system. Any excess lubrication is blown out the ejection port in just a few rounds. So it isn't going to matter if it's a few drops, or a few ounces. After a magazine full , any excess lube will be gone.

Most ALL AR training classes will stress running the weapon wet is far better than running it dry. This is for a reason. They run better. I have found no flaws in those statements. As I said the government ran tests on the M-4, most recently in Afghanistan. They found most of the stoppages that occurred were due to lack of lubrication. Not any inherent problem with the weapon itself.

In combat that can, and does occur. There is zero reason for it to on a civilian range gun, or police patrol rifle. The AR is no different than most weapons in this regard. Most problems are from too little lubrication, rather than too much.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Please post links to some of those reports.

This information is out there, and has been for years. If you're that interested in reading up on it, do your own leg work.

You made the statement that the reports exist. Having made the statement, the burden is on you to back up your statement when asked. Suggesting that I do my own research is a cop-out.

 

[tipoc]

I've already done that. In fact, I've "given it" exactly 46 years when I purchased my first semi auto weapon with a detachable magazine back in 1973. (A Colt Gold Cup). I have never had a single issue with dirt "gumming up my magazines".

As I said before, this is simply common sense. Using oil or grease as a rust preventative is almost as old as time itself. What kind, along with how much, and how often it should be applied, as well as cleaned, is all in play.

Look, that's because you have kept your mags clean. Use a small amount of oil in the mags if you care to. You don't need it but it won't hurt. Keep the mags clean and they won't rust, the springs won't rust and things won't get gunked up. It's when mags aren't cleaned, like any other part of a gun, that corrosion can develop.

tipoc

 

[bill460]

You made the statement that the reports exist. Having made the statement, the burden is on you to back up your statement when asked.

"Burden"? Oh please, spare me. What do you think this is, a courtroom? You're starting to sound like Pelosi. If you do or don't believe it, I couldn't care less either way. Believe what you want. It's not my job to convince you of anything. As they say, Google is your friend.

 

[bill460]

Look, that's because you have kept your mags clean. Use a small amount of oil in the mags if you care to. You don't need it but it won't hurt. Keep the mags clean and they won't rust, the springs won't rust and things won't get gunked up. It's when mags aren't cleaned, like any other part of a gun, that corrosion can develop.

You are trying to associate oil with rust by entering dirt into the equation. If you have an oily or greasy surface, rust will not form, period. Because it can't. Regardless of how much dirt you introduce into it.

Look at these people who live in the rust belt. Many spray the undercarriage of their vehicles with heavy weight oil before Winter. It prevents rusting, even though dust and dirt sticks to it like mad. Fluid Film has an entire product line based on that principal.

After it's applied it turns into a sticky, waxy film that adheres well to all metal surfaces it comes into contact with. It also causes dust and dirt to stick to it like crazy. But it doesn't mater because it is the oily / waxy film that is protecting the metal. The dirt has no effect either way. A oiled magazine is no different from a rust / corrosion / dirt standpoint.

I'm not trying to argue. That's just the way it is. One has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the other. Keep the internals of your magazine lightly oiled, and you will never have rust.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

For a newbie, bill460 has a lot of good points.....