Inherited a Browning Hipower

How could one be "irresponsible with gun safety," when they intended to shoot someone, and did so? Only a lawyer could dream that up.
 
...not to mention that self-defense use would tend to include a mag loaded into the pistol, thereby rendering the disconnect, and any discussion thereof, totally irrelevant.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
How could one be "irresponsible with gun safety," when they intended to shoot someone, and did so? Only a lawyer could dream that up.
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jonnyc said:
...not to mention that self-defense use would tend to include a mag loaded into the pistol, thereby rendering the disconnect, and any discussion thereof, totally irrelevant.
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1) That's what lawyers do.

2) If you're in court as a defendant in a shooting, nothing is irrelevant.

We all like to think that we are righteous and that we would never shoot someone unless it was justified, but in the real world not all cases are crystal clear, cut-and-dried. Beyond that, not all states offer indemnification against civil lawsuits in the event of a legally-justified shooting. You might not be charged criminally, or you might be charged and acquitted, but in many states you could still be sued in civil court by the [alleged] perp (or his family). If you need proof of the concept -- O.J. Simpson.

If you're in criminal court, the prosecution might or might not be more interested in a conviction than in seeing justice done. That's bad enough. If you're being sued in civil court, the lawyer for the other side has only one agenda -- to paint you in the worst possible light in front of the judge or jury. If doing that includes pointing out that you intentionally disabled a factory-installed safety device -- they'll do it in a heartbeat, and not lose a moment's sleep over it.

It's the same argument that pertains to using handloaded ammunition. Some will argue that if it's a justified shooting, you have nothing to worry about. And, since we would never be involved in a shooting that isn't justified, go ahead and use handloaded ammo/disable that magazine safety.

It's a personal decision, and each of us has to assess how risk averse we are. Personally, I'm very risk averse. I reload for plinking and competition (if I can get my hip fixed enough to be able to compete again), but I only carry factory ammunition. I own a Hi-Power. I would love to try it in competition but the magazine safety complicates showing clear at the end of each stage ... so I don't use it. I regard any firearm I own as potentiually being used for self defense, so I have not removed the magazine safety, and I won't.
 
Erno has a valid point. It could happen that the thing is brought into court, and at the very least that will add an hour to the arguments, a thousand dollars to the defense costs, and half a tree to the paperwork, just because it was brought in.

Maybe it won't be brought in. I'm sure that there have been plenty of little nitpicky points like that that have gone straight under the radar. Maybe something that small and uncertain will be called insignificant and ignored.

I am going to guess that nobody has ever gone to jail or lost a lawsuit for no reason other than he had taken out a magazine disconnect from his browning. Sure, a guy went to jail after he used 10 mm magnum HP rounds to kill a hobo, but that's not relevant to a trigger disconnect. And he was eventually freed on appeal, so it doesn't matter anyway.
 
I know that he complained about FTF using 15 year old Ammo about 10 years ago that I suspect was due to old reloads.
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What has the gun been doing in the 10 years or so, since then??

Used once in a while with no issues? cleaned occasionally? or did it maybe spend a decade alone in a dresser drawer with its last oil slowly turning to glue??

My Dad hadn't touched his Govt Model for at least the last decade of his life, I think. After he passed we found it in his top dresser drawer, magazine loaded with 7rnds of ball ammo, chamber empty. When I let the slide run forward after checking the chamber, it slowly crept forward and stopped about half way closed. It shut when I bumped it, the oil he left on it had turned thick.

SO give it a good cleaning and include the firing pin channel. Old oil turned to sludge in there can cause misfires even with good ammo.

Buy another spring, but if after proper clean and lube the gun runs ok, there's no need to change it out. And you'll have the new one on hand IF the day ever comes that you do need it. Get a spare extractor, too. Better to have it and never need it than need it and not have it.
 
Old oil turned to sludge in there can cause misfires even with good ammo. Buy another spring, but if after a proper clean and lube, the gun runs OK, there's no need to change it out, and you'll have the new one on hand IF the day ever comes that you do need it.
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Good advice here. Rod
 
Just a cpl add'l thoughts...Stephen Camp suggests that early Hi-Powers (any one but a Mklll) should not be shot extensively with +P ammunition. IIRC, he also used an 18.5 lb. recoil spring in his personal carry Hi-Power, to lessen the effects of higher pressure ammunition.

Camp's web site, still up since his death, makes plain some of the distinctions and expands on ammunition choices including target pictures with various brands from 15 yds and off a rest.

Personally, while I like and often carry my pair of Hi-Powers, I do find the force needed to rack their slides considerably heavier than most pistols. The .40, especially, is a bit tough to manage. Too, I find that I can't control a safe, one-handed, decock on either pistol. Their mainsprings are just too heavy for me. YMMv but be careful if you're in the habit of single-handed decocking your pistol.

Lastly, while all guns are a law unto themselves, my 9mm Hi-Power much prefers 124 gr bullets to the lighter 115's. And this goes for all brands of commercially available ammunition tried to date. For good groups and ocular cranial 3"x5" silhouette shots well past 15 yds, my guns (including several Sig and Glock 9mm's besides the afore mentioned "Practical" Hi-Power), do extremely well with American Eagle 124 gr FMJ's. I'd be interested in other members experience in that regard.

Best regards, Rod
 
Sorry for your loss. I have three of my father's guns that I will never part with. Regarding your Hi Power, I agree that it's a great defensive arm; I own a MKIII Practical. And, I totally understand your thoughts about using it defensively. However, I would mention that if any of us ever use a firearm defensively, there's the chance that it could be held up for years and possibly never returned. I would typically only carry something or have something as my "night stand" gun that has zero emotional value to me. Just my opinion... why risk, even remotely, something of such sentimental value being mishandled or even permanently confisicated?
 
I would not forgo the carry of a pistol I had the utmost confidence in for fear the police will hold it as evidence in a shooting situation, in fact that is the time I would want that very pistol. It is silly to leave a nice reliable pistol in the safe and carry something that may be of lesser reliability. As for “emotional value” I would quietly thank my benefactor for placing that weapon in my hands.
 
Certainly everyone's choice with what they carry, for sure. And, I agree that I wouldn't choose a less reliable pistol to carry. But, just my own personal choice, I have plastic wonders (e.g. Glock 19, Walther P99, Sig P365) that are perfectly reliable and proven designs that will hit whatever they are aimed at, but have zero emotional value to me that I carry. Of course, the Hi Power is an outstanding design in its own right, proven countless times over in the hands of militaries, police, and civilians since the 1930's.

Again to each his own... just my own thoughts on the topic.
 
I too have my choice of “plastic” pistols which are my current choice. With the way things have played out just looking to add something else to the mix.

This is not a need but a want as a way to honor my father.


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Hopefully you will never have to use that pistol in a defensible situation , it would leave you with a different feeling . Take good care of it , shoot it often , it's best leaving a smile on your face . Be Well.

Chris
 
The last gun I bought last year was a bone-stock BHP MKII that I found in a Cabelas Gun Library in Lone Tree, CO. This is my 2nd BHP and it “could use” sights & trigger work, but honestly it shoots great just the way it is. Including the MK III I already have, I could always shoot BHP’s well, and I’m sad & a little peeved that these are discontinued (for now but hopefully not for long). I don’t know how long it sat in that Gun Library there before I got it but I’m really glad I didn’t snooze & lose on this one.
 
cw308 said:
Hopefully you will never have to use that pistol in a defensible situation , it would leave you with a different feeling . Take good care of it , shoot it often , it's best leaving a smile on your face . Be Well.

Chris
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I’ve always liked it and remember when my Dad bought it. I understand what you are saying about using it for more than punching paper but that’s what he bought it for if it ever comes down to that. I pray it never will.


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Scottcc said:
Did I miss something? Does the OP mean failure to feed, or failure to fire?
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Best of memory is failure to feed. I was the last to clean it about 10 years ago and haven’t been able to get to the range with it lately. I will give it another good clean and new ammo and see what happens. There is a good chance every thing works fine. If not I might be back with questions.


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