Increasing hostility to Men & Women in Blue?

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Kimio

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With recents events that include a number of accidental shootings (the accidental shooting of a couple that was driving the same car as an active shooter in California IIRC for example), the shooting in Ferguson and a number of others, there appears to be a great deal of heat being generated against LEO's in general.

I know several people that look at LEO's and think that they all uniformed thugs, looking for an excuse to either arrest you or pull their gun on you. Obviously this is far from the truth IMO, as I've met a great deal of awesome LEO's over the years. There are of course bad ones, but I wonder if this is at all due to the way the police are handleing situations these days.

When my uncle was still a state trooper for Illinois, it didn't seem like we had nearly as many problems with the public raging at LEO's. I don't recall there being as many "police shootouts" growing up either, then again, it could just be that the media has been keeping an eye on it more.

So what exactly changed if anything at all? Is this a training issue for LEO's or is it society overreacting and the media fanning the flames of emotion too much?
 
One obvious thing is the advent of the cell phone with a camera. People are recording police intervention in the worst light. The police are not perfect but it definitely changes the idea of when in doubt, always believe the LEO.

JIMHO...

...bug
 
To me it seems they use swat teams and no knock warrants when it is not necessary. Like for civil matters and traffic warrants. They also need to double check to make sure not to raid the wrong address. Hearsay from an informant should not be grounds for a no knock warrant. Please don't think I am "cop bashing". The only real problem I've ever had with law enforcement has been as a trucker in California at truck weigh stations. The CHP will cite you for something, anything or nothing. They are using commercial truck compliance to fund their bankrupt state economy. I don't care if they see this post as I am retired now.
 
There used to be a time when news organizations could digest and then report, those days are over. They're all in competition to analyze every police shooting before the competition does, and certainly before the facts are out. And they all rely on the web as a means of generating advertising revenue, that means even more of a rush to put the most attractive narrative out there.
 
I think public perception of cops in most places is probably higher than it was back in the '70s. It was pretty bad back then.

Lots of things contribute to conflicts between cops and the public. The fact that simply being a cop tends to attract individuals who are bullys and control freaks plays a part. Now, that is not to say that all cops (or even the majority) are bullys and control freaks. But, it only takes a few on each police force to cause a bad perception.

On the other side are the civilians with easy access to "publish" any wrong or perceived wrong. That just wasn't available in times past so many instances of brutality, arrogance, etc. just weren't publicly known.

Then, to make matters worse, is the general decline in attitudes towards right and wrong. In years past, it was common place for a man to rob someone and leave him unharmed. Today, a robber will shoot or harm his victim just because he feels like it. There is no reverence for human life anymore. I'm sure that this attitude among the criminal element has caused police to react "less gently" than they would have if they had some degree of confidence that the arrestee would not offer violent resistance.
 
Seems to me that this whole discussion comes to the same bottom line each time. Cops are very much like people in that if you gather up a bunch of them, you'll see the spectrum. Sworn officers, however, are in a position of authority and with such a position, a higher standard of conduct is expected. Should it be? I don't have that answer.

When I was a kid, cops were the good guys, always.

When I was a teenager & began shooting at the local Sportsman's Club, I shot with many cops and the cops were always the first one to tell you that most cops hardly shoot, are bad at it and know squat about guns and marksmanship. They had me believing for sure that the average cop was a train wreck when it came to skilled shooting and only mediocre at best when it came to safe & confident gun handling. Cops told me this -- so at MUST be true! :p

When September 11th happened, cops were the textbook definition of "heroes." It was the first time in my life (that I recall) where a common word got redefined right before my eyes. We grew up believing that pro athletes were heroes, but after 2001, you were an insensitive jerk for suggesting that.

I have a good buddy who was a bail bondsman for years and he threw parties and invited dang near every cop within 50 miles. It was business, really, bring all these guys over for food & music & fun and they sent more business in his direction. With these parties, I met many cops. And I met the spectrum. I met terrific guys who were friendly and outgoing, I would describe them as normal. And I met a number of the others, they never cracked a smile, never seemed to enjoy themselves and they had no interest in chatting with anyone except other cops. I've met those cops in other settings also and frankly, I don't like being around them.

And yeah... it seems obvious to me that it's like gathering up a bunch of people. Most of 'em are good, some of them are BLAH, some of them are worse than that, and you might find one who's a genuinely awful soul that just does bad things. But by the numbers, the really bad ones are awfully rare.

Like most American males, I've also been pulled over while exceeding the speed limit a number of times. :p And I've been ticketed many of them, and as I got a little older, I've been let off with a warning even more times. And I know that some folks have had bad roadside experiences with LE, but in 26 years of wreaking havoc on the streets, I can't recall dealing with a single officer that was obnoxious or otherwise acting in any sort of corrupt manner. I have very little doubt that my conduct toward them has had a pretty big part in my personal experiences.

I'm over 40, got a clean record and keeping it that way is right near the top of my "to-do" list all the time. So my perception of cops remains -- these are good people who are held to a higher standard and when one of them stumbles, it makes like 10,000 of them look awful. :(
 
As someone with several family members and friends who put on a badge every day, I know that for 99%(my estimation) are good men and women in a job that is put under microscope and each and every move of theirs is highly examined. More so than probably all others combined. I have heard many times some variation of "Cops are held to a higher standard than the public, but the public forgets they are pulled from within the same pool..."
 
So what exactly changed if anything at all? Is this a training issue for LEO's or is it society overreacting and the media fanning the flames of emotion too much?
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One thing has certainly changed: You did not see cops wearing the same kit that soldiers did, riding in APC's, a generation ago .....

Perception is important. If you dress up like a soldier, and arm yourself like one, folks will percieve you as one...... and maybe not one on their side .....

A revisiting of the Peelian Principles would be in order for those that think the answer is more tacticool firepower.

...... when "Law Enforcement Officers" return to being "Peace Officers" ...... maybe they (and the Public) will stop seeing things in an "Us" and "Them" light ......
 
It's the result of several factors. Many of them are generational.

The first is that we have more technology, which can lead to greater accountability. The downside is that we have people deliberately baiting law enforcement into saying the wrong thing on camera. That doesn't exactly breed goodwill or cooperation from either side.

The second is the perceived militarization of the police. To some extent, this is necessary. Criminals have gotten more brazen and aggressive. The downside to that is figuring out where to draw the line. Not every warrant or protest necessitates an APC and a full squad in riot gear.

The third is a gradual change in training and philosophy. We can gripe all we want about how little cops train with their weapons: the budget and time aren't there. Many of the guys showing up at academy these days have never touched a gun in their lives.

And yes, there's some general snottiness and antagonism towards law enforcement in general because of the bad actions of a few individuals. Sometimes it's not even that. We seem to have a culture that despises cops and impedes their ability to work while complaining they don't do enough.
 
Kimio said:
So what exactly changed if anything at all? Is this a training issue for LEO's or is it society overreacting and the media fanning the flames of emotion too much?
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IMHO, it's both a training issue and a reflection of the decline of our civilization.

On the training issue, too many police academies are teaching their rookies to demand "compliance" at all costs. They teach the recruits to demand respect, even as they act in ways undeserving of respect and while they show no respect for the citizens with whom they are interacting. Like today's school administrators, they don't want to think and their bosses don't want them to think. Zero tolerance, zero thought becomes the order of the day. Do as I say or get tasered (or worse).

On top of that, too many rookies today are only too happy to buy into that "YOU WILL RESPECT MY AW-THAW-RIH-TAY" schtick. Maybe it's a product of watching too much television, but the first response seems too often to be to reach for the baton or the taser or the gun rather than try to talk a situation out.

Looking at the decline of civilization aspect, one could argue that a declining civilization simply has less respect for the law, and thus for the enforcers of the law. And there is perhaps some validity to that, but I think the flip side is that in a declining civilization the enforcers of the law tend, as a group, to devolve into oppressors rather than public servants.
 
Looking at the decline of civilization aspect, one could argue that a declining civilization simply has less respect for the law,
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It was easier to have a respect for the law when there were only 10 of them ..... at this point, there are so many laws that not only can they not be followed, they can't possibly be impartially enforced .....

IIRC, our own esteemed Lawdog has remarked that there are 11 felonies in the State of Texas alone dealing with the possesion, sale and transportation of oysters .......
 
I still keep his post talking about "Reasonable gun control" with me at all times, to include the comic version.

priceless and timeless.

On topic. I have to agree, I also feel that society and even more so, my particular generation, simply don't care, nor have any real inclination to respect others, let alone the law.
 
The biggest problem I see is the police are almost never held accountable when they screw up. "Qualified Immunity! Sucks to be you."

I'm a law abiding citizen, and I fear the police more than I do common criminals. Truth be told, I don't see much difference except the police are better organized.
 
The biggest problem I see is the police are almost never held accountable when they screw up. "Qualified Immunity! Sucks to be you."

I'm a law abiding citizen, and I fear the police more than I do common criminals. Truth be told, I don't see much difference except the police are better organized.
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Pretty much.

The real messed up part, is anytime I see a cop or police car, my stomach drops, I get scared even though I'm doing nothing wrong.

Anyone see the musician that was arrested in the NYC subway, even though what he was doing was legal? Story has been going around a bit, where I live.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/20/subway-musician-arrest-_n_6017854.html
Pretty much shows why there's increased 'hostility' towards officers.

Police trespassing on property, then shooting the owner's dog(s).
Police beating people while prone, or even cuffed and restrained.
Police abusing their power.
There's some significant problems going on.
 
You forgot nearly killing a baby with a stun grenade, then refusing to pay his medical bills. (The sheriff laughed about that one on a news interview)
 
ThesNazud said:
As someone with several family members and friends who put on a badge every day, I know that for 99%(my estimation) are good men and women in a job that is put under microscope and each and every move of theirs is highly examined. More so than probably all others combined. I have heard many times some variation of "Cops are held to a higher standard than the public, but the public forgets they are pulled from within the same pool..."
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The 'higher standard' is usually expected because LEO's are sworn to protect and serve, not punish and abuse.

Also many of them skirt around the law i.e. speeding, or become immune to other charges up to murder in some cases (whether its justified or not).
 
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