hksigwalther
New member
Next to the High Power, I think the CZ is the next most copied in 9mm.
In search of a full-size 9mm handgun
- Thread starter etron
- Start date
brookstexas
New member
Dont get an HK or SIG!
Unless money is no object. If you are looking for a reliable and accurate range gun look at a CZ75. Mine cost less than $350 nib with a 15 & 10 rnd mag. It is as/more accurate than my HK, Glock 19 & Beretta!
BT
Unless money is no object. If you are looking for a reliable and accurate range gun look at a CZ75. Mine cost less than $350 nib with a 15 & 10 rnd mag. It is as/more accurate than my HK, Glock 19 & Beretta!
BT
Since no one has mentioned it, let me suggest the Ruger P 95. It's in the same price league as the CZ and in my opinion just as reliable as any other 9 mm pistol. Probably not as accurate as a Sig but it's half the price. IMHO it's the most overlooked pistol out there and doesn't get the respect it deserves.
cz and hk
Your question was what do CZs and HKs offer that the P228 doesn't.
The CZ is a larger, steel framed handgun. It will shoot just as accurately as a P228, and is in my opinion significantly more comfortable and controllable. In addition to being significantly less expensive, a CZ 85 Combat would give you completely ambidextrous controls, and a choice between a double and single action trigger. If you like a single action pull, you can leave it cocked and locked; if you like the heavier double action pull on the first shot, you can carefully lower the hammer. The metal work on the P228 is probably better finished, and the P228 is a well-designed firearm, but I still prefer the CZs because of their ergonomics/grip comfort, balance, accuracy, rugged design, etc. For some reason, alloy framed Sigs have never balanced well in my hand.
I personally like HK P7s much more than Sigs. If you look at a P7, you don't see levers, knobs, and switches everywhere. The engineering is remarkable. The P7s are very streamlined and relatively compact. Because they have fixed barrels, they should be more accurate than both the Sigs and the CZs, (except the Sig P210). The metalwork and craftsmanship of the P7s is incredible. Functionally, P7s are very easy to shoot ........ you should try one. The German GSG9 counter terrorism team uses/has used the P7 M8. The pistol is small, quick into action, supremely accurate, and fast with multiple shots. It has also been used by a number of law enforcement agencies in the U.S. The main problem with the P7 is the price, roughly two to three times the price of competing handguns. If price is not a concern for a home defense/carry/combat firearm, one of my top choices in 9mm would easily be the P7.
Your question was what do CZs and HKs offer that the P228 doesn't.
The CZ is a larger, steel framed handgun. It will shoot just as accurately as a P228, and is in my opinion significantly more comfortable and controllable. In addition to being significantly less expensive, a CZ 85 Combat would give you completely ambidextrous controls, and a choice between a double and single action trigger. If you like a single action pull, you can leave it cocked and locked; if you like the heavier double action pull on the first shot, you can carefully lower the hammer. The metal work on the P228 is probably better finished, and the P228 is a well-designed firearm, but I still prefer the CZs because of their ergonomics/grip comfort, balance, accuracy, rugged design, etc. For some reason, alloy framed Sigs have never balanced well in my hand.
I personally like HK P7s much more than Sigs. If you look at a P7, you don't see levers, knobs, and switches everywhere. The engineering is remarkable. The P7s are very streamlined and relatively compact. Because they have fixed barrels, they should be more accurate than both the Sigs and the CZs, (except the Sig P210). The metalwork and craftsmanship of the P7s is incredible. Functionally, P7s are very easy to shoot ........ you should try one. The German GSG9 counter terrorism team uses/has used the P7 M8. The pistol is small, quick into action, supremely accurate, and fast with multiple shots. It has also been used by a number of law enforcement agencies in the U.S. The main problem with the P7 is the price, roughly two to three times the price of competing handguns. If price is not a concern for a home defense/carry/combat firearm, one of my top choices in 9mm would easily be the P7.
Thanks for the suggestion about the HK P7. I went and looked at it on the HK website. Here's a picture of it:
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/Pages/p7m13_lrg.html
It looks alot smaller than the p228--too small. The HK USP9 Compact model looks interesting though, it looks about the same size as the p228.
I can't find the CZ website (I did a www.google.com search).
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/Pages/p7m13_lrg.html
It looks alot smaller than the p228--too small. The HK USP9 Compact model looks interesting though, it looks about the same size as the p228.
I can't find the CZ website (I did a www.google.com search).
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does size matter?
The specs for the
HK P7M8 are about 6.8" length, 5.10" height, 1.14" width, 4.13" barrel, and 1.7 lbs
P228 are about 7.1" length, 5.4" height, 1.15" width, 3.9" barrel, and 28.1 oz.
Glock 19 are 6.85" length, 5" height, 1.18" width, 4.02" barrel, and 20 oz.
Don't let the picture fool you ............. the P7M8 may be relatively compact, but it's still large enough to serve as a law enforcement and tactical team duty weapon. Actually, your picture shows the P7M13, which has a slightly longer and wider grip to accommodate five extra rounds. The M8 has a grip that is marginally smaller in circumference and length. M13s are now only sold to law enforcement and military personnel, unless you find one that's been floating around in a distributor's/shop's inventory.
For surgical accuracy requiring multiple hits with 9mm rounds, I'd take the P7M8 or M13 first, then CZ85 Combat, then P228, then Beretta, then Glock 19. (I'm leaving out the Hi-Power because I assumed that you weren't looking at pure single-action autos.)
There are plenty of reasons to abandon the P7 between the high price and the funky squeeze cocking mechanism. Engineering, machining, component quality, functionality, accuracy, and reliability are not reasons to abandon the P7. In all of these respects, the P7 is one of the best made production handguns in the cosmos ...... er ....... world. And SIZE is definitely not a good reason to walk away from the P7 ...........
You really should handle a P7 in person, and probably rent one at a range. You actually should compare the feel of firing a P7 against a P228, Glock 19, and CZ85 ............... Anyway, this is all personal preference, and any choice you make is a good one.
The specs for the
HK P7M8 are about 6.8" length, 5.10" height, 1.14" width, 4.13" barrel, and 1.7 lbs
P228 are about 7.1" length, 5.4" height, 1.15" width, 3.9" barrel, and 28.1 oz.
Glock 19 are 6.85" length, 5" height, 1.18" width, 4.02" barrel, and 20 oz.
Don't let the picture fool you ............. the P7M8 may be relatively compact, but it's still large enough to serve as a law enforcement and tactical team duty weapon. Actually, your picture shows the P7M13, which has a slightly longer and wider grip to accommodate five extra rounds. The M8 has a grip that is marginally smaller in circumference and length. M13s are now only sold to law enforcement and military personnel, unless you find one that's been floating around in a distributor's/shop's inventory.
For surgical accuracy requiring multiple hits with 9mm rounds, I'd take the P7M8 or M13 first, then CZ85 Combat, then P228, then Beretta, then Glock 19. (I'm leaving out the Hi-Power because I assumed that you weren't looking at pure single-action autos.)
There are plenty of reasons to abandon the P7 between the high price and the funky squeeze cocking mechanism. Engineering, machining, component quality, functionality, accuracy, and reliability are not reasons to abandon the P7. In all of these respects, the P7 is one of the best made production handguns in the cosmos ...... er ....... world. And SIZE is definitely not a good reason to walk away from the P7 ...........
You really should handle a P7 in person, and probably rent one at a range. You actually should compare the feel of firing a P7 against a P228, Glock 19, and CZ85 ............... Anyway, this is all personal preference, and any choice you make is a good one.
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Ok well last night I put 100 rounds through an HK USP9. It felt really good to shoot; almost as good as the p226.
The thing I love about the HK USP9 are the controls. They are much better than the controls on the Sig p226.
After firing both the HK USP9 and the Sig p226 and the glock 17, I definately am going to eliminate the glock 17. It didn't feel nearly as good to shoot as either of the other two, plus I don't like the trigger system with a lack of DA/SA.
But my decision between the HK USP9 and Sig p226 I don't know yet. If the Sig p226 had the controls of the HK USP9, I'd know which gun to get!
The thing I love about the HK USP9 are the controls. They are much better than the controls on the Sig p226.
After firing both the HK USP9 and the Sig p226 and the glock 17, I definately am going to eliminate the glock 17. It didn't feel nearly as good to shoot as either of the other two, plus I don't like the trigger system with a lack of DA/SA.
But my decision between the HK USP9 and Sig p226 I don't know yet. If the Sig p226 had the controls of the HK USP9, I'd know which gun to get!
If you liked the HK so much, you really should try the P99. The P99 has the lever control mag release like the HK. Plus it has different sized backstraps to fit your hand. 4 different front sights to adjust elevation for your specific ammo. The durable Tenifer finish (as seen on Glocks) and is just an all around great pistol.
P99
P99
etron, so price is no object? This leaves me thinking of two choices. What are they? The Sig P210 and the Walther P88 are the best two service pistols I know of. I have never fired a P210 but I have read rave revues about it by writers and posters. I have a Walther P88 and every other D/A pistol I have fired pales before it. Want something exotic? See if you can find a Browning BDM; it is slightly less accurate than my P88 but a great pistol. Regards, Richard
the walther p88 and sig p210 sound like exceptionally fine pistols. but i don't think they meet my criteria of a modern combat handgun. example, the p210 only holds 8 rounds.
i think right now i'm just gonna have to spend some time shooting the sig p226 and the hk usp9 to see which one i like better. (i'm going to pass on the CZ75B, walther p99, berreta 92fs, and glock 17).
so which would you take between the sig p226 and the hk usp9?
and which would you take between the sig p228 and the hk usp9 compact?
i think right now i'm just gonna have to spend some time shooting the sig p226 and the hk usp9 to see which one i like better. (i'm going to pass on the CZ75B, walther p99, berreta 92fs, and glock 17).
so which would you take between the sig p226 and the hk usp9?
and which would you take between the sig p228 and the hk usp9 compact?
etron, the Walther P88 holds 15 rounds of 9mm. In my books that makes it a full sized service pistol. Also, if given the choices of a Sig p226 vs HK USP9 and Sig p228 vs HK USP9 I would opt for the Sig P228. Why? It feels great in my hand, I shoot it well, and it has a great trigger. Why not the HK USP9? They have never felt right in my hand and I find their controls unnecessarily complex. One mans thoughts. Regards, Richard