I'm sure this has been discussed a million times, is .40 cal that superior to 9 mm?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not according to my shot timer but maybe my wrists just aren't sensative enough.

I see what you attempted there, nice try. But you don't need to try to emasculate someone for disagreeing. lol, I can tell a Chevrolet Corvette is faster than a Toyota Corolla without having vertigo. You don't need to have "sensitive wrists" to determine that. ;)



And, again. For the most part. Without going into a huge hunt to weights and manufacturers, etc etc. The .40S&W still recoils sharper than most 9mm's.
 
I can tell a Chevrolet Corvette is faster than a Toyota Corolla without having vertigo.

Classic redacto ad absurdum fallacy we're not talking 460 S&W vs 9mm we're talking 350 vs 400 Chevy now let's be realistic and add a little weight to the 400 and make it a 4X4 now it's gonna take a stop watch.

Without going into a huge hunt to weights and manufacturers, etc etc. The .40S&W still recoils sharper than most 9mm's.

OK keep your blinders on and believe what you will for others look at the slides on 9mm vs 40 many manufacturers have figured out if you increase slide mass just a bit it mitigates the difference in recoil and when you put shots on target with a timer you'll find very little difference.
 
The 9-minimeter just has a hard time getting it done.

Yeah, a 9mm pistol is great fun as your weekend range toy for "tacticool" target-shooting drills, but for out on the street, ... ah, well, not so much. :rolleyes:
 
Ballistically they're not to different now, +p+ rounds are a little different, the 40 s&w packs more ft-lbs energy while the 9mm is a little faster fps wise. Check buffalo bores listings. +p rounds are about the same fps wise with the 40 edging out the 9 in energy. Both penetrate about the same. Im a 9mm fan personally but both are great calibers get whatever u are more comfortable with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think that .40 only has a very slight increase in power over the 9mm, however, to me this small gain in power is worth it. I do not own any 9mm handguns and will not unless it is a pocket or deep concealment handgun. I couldn't give a hoot about velocity, whether in rifles or pistols. I like weight and momentum. I think that for a human , the difference would be almost unnoticeable, but once you step up to larger denser creatures, the more powerful rounds are more noticeable. Weight equals penetration in spft medium. However the 9mm has a velocity advantage (in typically encountered loadings) which comes in handy when going against basically anything except soft squishy things. The capacity advantage to some is better, some also like the EASE of accuracy with the lower recoiling pistol. I can only afford 1 or two given pistols at one time. For me both are above the parabellum just because I may one day need to harvest a deer or cow. Actually in my state it is legal to hunt deer with my 1911 so I will do that and I am sure the result would be better with a .40 or .45 , but not that much different
 
Not according to my shot timer but maybe my wrists just aren't sensative

You really can't tell the difference between 9mm and .40 recoil? They feel the exact same to you? I ask because the don't to me. Not that one is worse than the other but they feel different to me.
 
One of the things that irks me a bit is that some 9mm fans today think the 9mm was always what it is now, and don't understand how anyone could choose something else. They never knew the time when 9mms were ALL single stack mag guns (with the exception of the Browning Hi Power). They may know, but I don't think they realize that there was the 9mm, then the 9mm +p, and now 9mm+P+, and how, if the round had been adequate to begin with, the hi pressure versions wouldn't have come about.

Yes. Well, to expand on this a bit.

The whole +P thing became a thing due to expanding bullets, really. Not just in 9mm, but also for other calibers. Let's turn the wheel of history a bit back.

I mean, take the late 19th and early 20th century rounds. They're generally much more modest then modern ones ballistically. As long as you're not spending bullet energy to deform the bullet itself, something like 650-700 fps and 200-220 grains, around a modest 200-ish fpe, is entirely suficient to penetrate sufficiently - around 18"-20" of ballistic gellatin. Many rounds of the period were rather modest (.44 and .45 Webley, .44 Colt, .44 American, .44 Russian, etcetera). The more potent .45 ACP is prone to overpenetrating, by modern standards, with nonexpanding ammo. The high velocity (at the time of it's introduction) 9mm Luger was again more then enough. Remember that at the time, the 9mm Kurz (.380) was quite popular.

Without expanding bullets, adding more powder behind the bullet would make sense to get a flatter trajectory and better range, but within the limits of handgun velocities, not much improved effect on target. However, with the switch to modern bullets, suddenly we require a lot of energy to just deform the bullet (you can get the idea of how much energy is expended doing this using a hammer), and then also push this much larger bullet to the necessary depth. So now you need much more kinetic energy to do the required work, hence +P offerings.

Saying the old 9mm did not work equals to saying that none of the old .36-38 calibers worked. This is obviously untrue, since these calibers were used for a century and something (both by civilians and militaries, and back then SMGs for close combat were a thing) before expanding bullets were even a thing, and .44-45 caliber offerings were "on the table" the whole time. However, a big factor in it's modern day popularity is, aside it's wide acceptance, the fact that the cartridge is energetic enough that it can spare the energy to expand and still penetrate sufficiently, especially if the pressure is jacked up a bit to +P levels. Lower power 9mm and .36-38 calibers do not have this spare power required to work well with expanding ammo and have generally fallen out of favour, with the exception of .38 Special which was considerably jacked up in it's +P specification.

Before the advent of expanding ammo, though, there was no real benefit to the 9mm Luger compared to most other calibers of the size, now it's the "minimum good caliber". Mind you, I've a soft spot for various .45s, but it has to be said that the 9mm sits in a "sweet spot" ballistically speaking. However that came to be only in relatively recent times, with the advances in ammo. There was nothing special about it - it was just another one of the .36-.38 family of cartridges - for a very long time.
 
You really can't tell the difference between 9mm and .40 recoil? They feel the exact same to you? I ask because the don't to me.

Depends a lot on the gun and load, I mean I can feel the difference between 115gr 9mm and 147 too but it doesn't show up on a shot timer.

So you can tell the difference between a 127gr Ranger +p+ thats going 1250 fps from a Barnes 140gr copper bullet thats going 1200 fps?

Can you also tell which ones are the extremes of ES of your 9mm loads can you tell which 127 ranger goes 1235 and which goes 1265?

Feel is perception and there's more to it than just how much recoil is produced by the cartridge especially in an auto loader where slide mass and recoil spring tension have a great deal of effect on the amount of time the recoil impulse is put to your hand.
 
Quote:
Not according to my shot timer but maybe my wrists just aren't sensitive.

You really can't tell the difference between 9mm and .40 recoil? They feel the exact same to you? I ask because the don't to me. Not that one is worse than the other but they feel different to me.

They offer testosterone shots for that ... :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top