I'm sure this has been discussed a million times, is .40 cal that superior to 9 mm?

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but they are so close any difference is in the head of the shooter or they are shooting anemic 9mm loads.
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Hmmm... I've been shooting and carrying Winchester Ranger T 127gr +p+ for several years now. MDPD carried the same load.

Still recoils with a difference of night and day in favor of 9mm in comparison to .40S&W.


That depends a lot on the gun
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While you aren't wrong, you're also not exactly right either. Guns built around .40S&W such as the USP, SIG P229, and arguably the Smith and Wesson M&P series.. They do handle .40S&W better than other manufacturers.

Then again... That same platform in 9mm, does so even better.
 
Discussing the effectiveness of one handgun cartridge over another kept the gun rags in business for years.
"...didn't do what the F.B.I. wanted it to do..." The FBI went to the .40 to try and overcome the lack of training/practice evident from the Miami shootout in 1986. Mostly the gross tactical error of tangling with rifle armed bad guys with a hand gun. Even an inaccurate over priced Mini-14 beats buckshot, a .357 and a 9mm every time.
Whole thing is a Ford vs Chevy thing anyway.
I'm kind of partial to F-150's. But only because I bought one after driving a long box Samurai for 15 years. Should have waited to get the 4 wheel drive though. 2WD pick-ups are hopeless on snow/slush covered roads.
 
Having both and using real targets to judge [woodchucks ,feral dogs ] the 40 is significantly better than the 9mm !!
Yes bullet placement is still very important ! Recoil ? Not with a HKP7 M10 :p
If I understand correctly going back to the 9mm was due mostly to cops shooting better with the 9 because of higher recoil.
Use what you can handle best ! Gun and cartridge ! :rolleyes:
 
I'm sure this has been discussed a million times, is .40 cal that superior to 9 mm?
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Yes, but not to the 10mm from which it is derived.

Arguably the .40 is about equal to the .45acp, but if given a choice between only those two, I'd go with the .45 because it's inherently a more accurate round, other relevant factors being equal.

Do you have that friend that swears that the 9mm is an inferior load, that if you don't hit a vital organ you're in trouble? Could it really be that much of a difference?
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Yes, and some of those friends are cops. They want every advantage that a heavier, larger diameter bullet offers.
 
The best advice is to shoot the largest caliber you can control in the platform that meets your needs. For instance, there are actually some all steel .40 S&W pistols that actually recoil less than some ultra light 9mm plastic pistols.
 
I think you hit the discussion on the head agt, the friend in question has several friends who are law enforcement officers! My thing is this, if you are faced with a threat in your home, when you draw a gun, half will run, if you fire the gun and miss, half of those will run, if you hit, a large percentage of those will be incapacitated, let's say less than 10% that are still coming will get the rest of the magazine and I don't believe they'll be asking what caliber you're shooting! Probably not a good thing to be assuming!
 
I'd say that the .40 is superior, more bullet wts to choose from...larger diameter bullet should one of the current boutique JHP's fail to open, good magazine capacity, light framed and easily concealed pistols...what's not to like? But you'll find there are an equal number of guy who prefer the 9mm....who's to say they're wrong.

For the reloader, it's a toss I'd say...my .40 brass comes from a number of LEO friends, but I could do as well at a public range picking up 9mm. Easy to find either in other words...tho the 9 is marginally cheaper to reload.

All said and done, I'll take a good .45! LOL and no offense meant to those who picked an inferior caliber.

Best Regards, Rod
 
In my opinion it's all personal preference.

I go with 9MM because all I use it for is plinking and the ammo is a little cheaper. I think they're both plenty effective.

I do keep a box of 20 pdx 9mm rounds as a back up to my primary home defense weapon. I would trust either round with my life, I care more about the firearm I'm using to defend it.
 
My opinion has always been that 45, 40, and 9mm are all equally suitable for personal protection provided premium self defense ammunition is used and the user puts in sufficient mental and physical training.

Making a choice comes down to what factors weigh heaviest for you ie capacity, recoil, power, cost of ammo etc.
 
There's 12 gauge, and there's high-power rifle calibers.

And handgun stuff... if you're shooting squirrels or you're desperate.
 
9 v 40

Agree.

Use what you handle the best.
It is not the number of shots but where they hit.
Your "target" could be firing back after your first pull of the trigger.
More rounds is not better, it's the one firing the gun he/she shoots better.

IMHO, I favor the 45acp/1911 as I shoot it with both accuracy and speed.
 
Defense, in my view is a combination of speed or " how quickly" you can put 3 rds on a target " tactically accurate " ....so center chest ( or roughly nipple to nipple - and down about 11" forming a rectangle about 8" X 11" ).....

And every shot placed in that rectangle is " tactically accurate"....

So to me, the key issue is about shot placement ...and a common standard for speed, is can you draw and fire 3 shots - all tactically accurate - in no more than 3 sec..../ and whether it's a 9mm, .40 or .45acp for the most part is irrelevent..../ can you do it with your carry gun or not ....and if you can do it with a 9mm, a .40 S&W or a .45 acp - then you'll be fine with whichever caliber you choose.your choice.

A lot of shooters find the snappy recoil of 180 gr .40 S&W difficult to control within that 3 sec drill - especially in small or light guns.......and with all of the high quality defense ammo made now in 9mm.....it makes a 9mm very effective...../ but it still comes down to the shooter and whether they can draw and put 3 shots on target in under 3 sec......

Ask your neighbor to go to the range and test his, or her, skill.....and then decide what you want to carry ( I've recently switched my primary carry gun to a full sized 1911 in 9mm ...over the .45acp i've carried for yrs --- because in my mid 60's now, i'm not as good with a .45 acp as I used to be...).....and 10 + 1 of 9mm, with 3 shots to center chest, from a draw, in about 2.5 sec is just fine !
 
Do you have that friend that swears that the 9mm is an inferior load, that if you don't hit a vital organ you're in trouble? Could it really be that much of a difference?
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My question is, has this friend ever been shot with a 9mm and can personally attest to it's inferiority? :p
 
Yes, and some of those friends are cops. They want every advantage that a heavier, larger diameter bullet offers.
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To be fair, the simple virtue of being a boy in blue does not make you any type of expert on guns or ballistics.

It is a known fact that a large majority of officers never have to fire their service weapon in the line of duty.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...ypd_annual_firearms_discharge_report_2012.pdf
^ 1 in 755 officers in NYC fired his/her weapon in 2012.
 
I have a Kel-Tec P11 for "deep concealment" but also have carried my Glock 20 and Ruger GP 100.

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement... Did I mention shot placement?

There you are.
 
Signing in for the latest caliber war

My frequently-given caveats: I'm not a gunsmith, competitive shooter, LEO, or ballistics expert. I'm a pencil-pusher who likes to shoot, but am perfectly capable of reading reports.

Yes, I have a couple of friends who assured me that if I was going to carry a gun, it just had to be "in a caliber beginning with a four." Anything less would undoubtedly get me killed if I ever had to draw it. . . .

I think we'd all agree that handguns are a compromise. As a buddy of mine likes to say, "if I had no choice but to go to a gunfight, I'd bring a rifle. And friends. With rifles." So we pick the compromises with which we can live. I like the .45 better than either the 9mm or the .40 in terms of its ballistic performance. I find the recoil impulse rather mild in full-sized pistols, both steel and polymer. I don't want to carry a full-sized pistol, though, and I like having more than ~6 shots on hand.

Is the .40 ballistically superior to the 9mm? Yeah, probably. I think it is at least marginally better. I still carry a 9mm, though. I think it is a "sufficient caliber for carry," and made my choice based on many things largely unrelated to ballistic performance. Recoil, ammo costs, reloading issues, etc.
 
I've read 9mm vs. .45 in articles dating since the 1950s. Today its 9mm vs. 40 vs.45. In the days of only FMJ ammo for autopistols I was convinced that you were foolish to choose a 9mm. Today, I'm not so certain.

I'm still not a big fan of the 9mm Luger, but I no longer consider it inadequate, with the right ammo.

NOTHING works 100% of the time. And, I admit some of the .45 guys actually believe the hype about their chosen round, but a lot of us know what a .45 will do, and what it won't. Some of the bias probably comes from the fact that we won WWI and WWII with the .45, facing guys with 9mms. Therefore, our .45 has to be the better choice, right? Well, yes, I thought so, but not for that reason.

One of the things that irks me a bit is that some 9mm fans today think the 9mm was always what it is now, and don't understand how anyone could choose something else. They never knew the time when 9mms were ALL single stack mag guns (with the exception of the Browning Hi Power). They may know, but I don't think they realize that there was the 9mm, then the 9mm +p, and now 9mm+P+, and how, if the round had been adequate to begin with, the hi pressure versions wouldn't have come about.

Historically speaking (and from my point of view) this didn't happen because the 9mm round was improved, and then people chose it, it happened because people were choosing 9mm and finding out they wanted (or needed) something that worked a little better.

I find it somewhat ironic that while the 9mm has been "uploaded" over the last several decades, the .357 Magnum has been downloaded.

Someone saying how the best 9mm loads equal the .357 from a 4" barrel is not, to me praise for the 9mm, its a sad comment on how far the .357 has fallen.

The 9mm Silvertip that "failed" the FBI in Miami met every requirement then in place for performance. And it still "failed". The FBI chose to use that failure as their scapegoat. The decided to go with the 10mm instead.

Sadly, the 10mm ammo, and the guns then existing, were too hot, and too big for a significant portion of the FBI to maintain their quals with.

The first step taken to correct this was a reduced 10mm load, and the search for a different gun. While this search is going on, S&W created the .40S&W. A round which met the FBI performance specs, AND fitted into a 9mm frame size gun. I won't say it was a match made in Heaven, but it worked pretty well for the FBI, and what works for the FBI is adopted by a lot of police.

The main drawback, as I see it, is that the .40S&W is at max capability to get the desired performance. It is, quite literally a bomb in a small package. If you look at the number of (verifiable) Ka-booms during development of certain guns, you'll probably find the majority of them were in .40S&W.

Recoil? Everyone is different, and different guns feel different. You may find a significant difference between the calibers, I don't, really.

Use whatever you can shoot best, because only hits count, and only hits in the right place WORK. .22 through .45 this holds true.
 
Spats & 44, on point. Good posts.

The marginal differences between 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP are what keeps me away from caliber debates.

I mainly carry 9mm because it's more ammo on tap. Everything is marginal. The only thing I do note, is that .40S&W is snappier than 9mm and .45ACP.

My heart is with .45ACP but my logic for concealed carry is with 9mm.
 
Still recoils with a difference of night and day in favor of 9mm in comparison to .40S&W.
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Not according to my shot timer but maybe my wrists just aren't sensative enough.



Guns built around .40S&W such as the USP, SIG P229, and arguably the Smith and Wesson M&P series..
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Not sure about the USP or M&Ps and while that may be true of early P229s the later ones don't have as much material at the back of the slide making the 40 slide a bit heavier slowing down the recoil impulse.

The only thing I do note, is that .40S&W is snappier than 9mm and .45ACP.
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Sure if you shoot a 45 in a 41oz 1911 and the 40 and 9mm in a 26oz G19/G23.
However my 21.5 oz Kahr CW45 is every bit as much recoil as my 21.5oz PPS and even a little more if I shoot 230s from the 45.

while my FN FNS 40 that weighs about an ounce more than the same 9mm makes it real hard to tell if your shooting 180s from a 40 or 147s from a 9mm.
 
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