1st off the wrong ammo then you go bang'n it with a hammer no less.. if you got the bolt open it to the possion where the bot was to slide open...then at that point you should have slid a solid dwell into the case from the muzzel end an mashed it open that way.. i wouldn't be blaming Remingtons products in this case, fault may be wrong ammo related here .. wether you like Rem... or not .
I'm so ticked off right now! (Remington 700 Bolt Handle Broke!)
- Thread starter mathman
- Start date
- Status
BusGunner007
New member
kscoyotehunter:
Send it to hdrifles and when you get it back --- shoot it!
Send it to hdrifles and when you get it back --- shoot it!
So the bolt HANDLE is the portion that has broken. That is NOT the way you put it in your first post. The bolt handle is a cast piece, but, if beating on it (I'm sorry..."tapping on it lightly") with a hammer....with or without a block of wood....the solder joint should have broken before the handle itself. It does sound to me as if you beat the cr*p out of it.
I'm still wondering as to the condition of the cartridge case, when extracted. As well, in what condition is the bolt itself (not the handle)....especially the locking lugs ? Was the cartridge case split or the head separated ? It is important to know what caused the bolt to become "stuck", in the first place. This did not just happen by itself - there very likely is a cartridge - related cause.
It now seems that what actually happened is that the rifle exhibited "sticky bolt" syndrome. That is, after firing, the bolt was VERY difficult to rotate to the unlocked position. If so, this is ALWAYS caused by the ammo. In fact, it is a clear indication of an over-pressure situation. Evidently, the cartridges, at least the last one of the 10 fired, were loaded too hot for the 700 action.
I see the bolt handle issue...and the stuck bolt issue as two different matters. I do NOT think that the bolt handle would have broken if you had extracted the stuck case from the rifle in the correct way....with a dowel, from the muzzle. IF the true problem was, in fact, that the bolt was very difficult to unlock....then breaking the bolt handle is YOUR fault. the hot-loaded cartridge is not your fault....but neither is it Remington's. But, it IS your responsibility. So, sorry, but I think that blaming Remington, when you very possibly abused the rifle, is dishonest at best. Is that what really happened ? Did you screw up and beat on the bolt out of frustration...until it broke....and now you are trying to blame Remington ???
Obviously, you do NOT owe anyone here any explanations...it's your rifle. But, you did ask for advice. Proper advice can't be given without accurate information.
I'm still wondering as to the condition of the cartridge case, when extracted. As well, in what condition is the bolt itself (not the handle)....especially the locking lugs ? Was the cartridge case split or the head separated ? It is important to know what caused the bolt to become "stuck", in the first place. This did not just happen by itself - there very likely is a cartridge - related cause.
It now seems that what actually happened is that the rifle exhibited "sticky bolt" syndrome. That is, after firing, the bolt was VERY difficult to rotate to the unlocked position. If so, this is ALWAYS caused by the ammo. In fact, it is a clear indication of an over-pressure situation. Evidently, the cartridges, at least the last one of the 10 fired, were loaded too hot for the 700 action.
I see the bolt handle issue...and the stuck bolt issue as two different matters. I do NOT think that the bolt handle would have broken if you had extracted the stuck case from the rifle in the correct way....with a dowel, from the muzzle. IF the true problem was, in fact, that the bolt was very difficult to unlock....then breaking the bolt handle is YOUR fault. the hot-loaded cartridge is not your fault....but neither is it Remington's. But, it IS your responsibility. So, sorry, but I think that blaming Remington, when you very possibly abused the rifle, is dishonest at best. Is that what really happened ? Did you screw up and beat on the bolt out of frustration...until it broke....and now you are trying to blame Remington ???
Obviously, you do NOT owe anyone here any explanations...it's your rifle. But, you did ask for advice. Proper advice can't be given without accurate information.
Last edited:
This reminds me of this old thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186575 
Mathman remember what you told me it was a shooter! Sure it has failed you now but it can be fixed. So its all good atleast your not stuck waiting months to get Bretta/Sako/Tika to do something
Alot of guns have failed on people from what I see. I dont know a single person that owns a gun that hasnt complianed atleast once about how there gun failed them. Guns fail people, the question is how many per 1,000 for example to be fair. After all if only 10 of one gun are made and the 9 failed it saying "9" doesnt seem as bad as "900" out of a million if you forget to mention the million 
Math if you get a picture I would love to see how it broke.
Dimitri
Mathman remember what you told me it was a shooter! Sure it has failed you now but it can be fixed. So its all good atleast your not stuck waiting months to get Bretta/Sako/Tika to do something
Alot of guns have failed on people from what I see. I dont know a single person that owns a gun that hasnt complianed atleast once about how there gun failed them
. Guns fail people, the question is how many per 1,000 for example to be fair. After all if only 10 of one gun are made and the 9 failed it saying "9" doesnt seem as bad as "900" out of a million if you forget to mention the million Math if you get a picture I would love to see how it broke.
Dimitri
Well, I will send the gun in for repair and hopefully they will fix it for free...then I'm going to sell the damn thing. I don't think that I was ever in any kind of danger, but once the bolt handle broke off, I sure was done shooting that gun for the day...what if I was hunting? Anyway, safe to say that this has left a bad taste in my mouth and I will probably never buy a Remington 700 again. I'm not saying that they are POS and all of that, but I don't buy the same model of any gun that gives me problems.
I am wondering if this same shell was shot through a Winchester (or Savage) what the results might have been...would the Winchester (or Savage) have extracted the case? Please know that I am not trying to start a Win vs Rem vs Savage debate, just honest questions.
I don't understand. You are going to ditch a product that has been thoroughly tested and successfully used for decades because of a problem most likely caused by the ammo?
To me that is like getting a bad tank of gas in your Hummer and then refusing to buy another Hummer.
I am wondering if this same shell was shot through a Winchester (or Savage) what the results might have been...would the Winchester (or Savage) have extracted the case? Please know that I am not trying to start a Win vs Rem vs Savage debate, just honest questions.
I don't understand. You are going to ditch a product that has been thoroughly tested and successfully used for decades because of a problem most likely caused by the ammo?
To me that is like getting a bad tank of gas in your Hummer and then refusing to buy another Hummer.
Sounds like your ammo got baked in the sun, creating abnormally high pressures and further thermally stretching the case. After the case and rifle cooled down, the bolt opened fairly easily.
Did you shoot your ten shots rapidly with the rifle in the sun? If so, the tight headspace of a fine rifle, combined with the vagaries of military ammo and heat probably caused the bolt to bind.
That's not to say that any investment cast parts can't be flawed, but if you couldn't open the bolt without rapping on it, there seems to be an ammo problem. I've never experienced that kind of problem in 50 years of shooting centerfires, mostly Remington and Savage. Of course, I stop shooting my rifles when it's uncomfortable to keep my hand on the rear of the barrel.
Picher
Did you shoot your ten shots rapidly with the rifle in the sun? If so, the tight headspace of a fine rifle, combined with the vagaries of military ammo and heat probably caused the bolt to bind.
That's not to say that any investment cast parts can't be flawed, but if you couldn't open the bolt without rapping on it, there seems to be an ammo problem. I've never experienced that kind of problem in 50 years of shooting centerfires, mostly Remington and Savage. Of course, I stop shooting my rifles when it's uncomfortable to keep my hand on the rear of the barrel.
Picher
I assure you that I didn't beat on it...and the cartridge was fine (nothing out of the ordinary to me). I have slept now and have calmed down a bit...I stated earlier that I wasn't bashing Remington...but I am (was) upset. It was very cool yesterday morning in the high desert, so the ammo didn't bake in the sun...probably just an overcharged round.
Iowa Cornfed
New member
If it was an "over charged round" then see Olaf's post #8 and THANK Remington!
In any case, I am glad that you are OK, mathman. That is the matter of REAL importance here.
As you said, it probably was an overcharged round that caused the "sticky bolt". You say that you didn't "beat up" the bolt...to get it open - OK, I'll take your word for it. To be fair, it certainly IS possible that the bolt handle happened to be defective....because the solder joint should have let go, well before the handle simply broke. But, the handle (a cast part) may have had a hairline crack in ....commonly referred to as a casting occlusion. If the bolt functions fine....slides back and forth in the receiver, locks and unlocks without binding, etc.....then it APPEARS that there is no permanent damage to the receiver or locking lugs. I would examine the bolt body and the lugs VERY closely, though, to be sure. Perhaps Remington will repair the bolt handle (replace it, actually) on warranty. I hope that they do.
But, I wouldn't simply condemn the rifle. We milsurp Mauser people are very used to "sticky bolt". Fortunately, in the case of the Mausers, the bolt handle is welded on - as part of the bolt body - and very robust. That is a weakness in the Remington bolt design, to be sure. It is not necessarily true that milsurp (7.62 NATO) ammo should not be used in the 700. I've had two rifles, exactly like yours (700 ADL's -in .308)...and together, both have seen a couple of thousand rounds of milsurp ammo. I always used the Australian ADI ammo, or, failing that, the South African ammo. Never had one problem with either....or the rifles...and both were quite accurate in my rifles (with the Aussie having a slight edge). Probably, the majority of the Santa Barbara ammo is OK. The combination of case dimensions that are perhaps, at the maximum limit of the spec'd tolerances...and the over- hot load, are what directly caused this problem. I would also examine the cartridge case in question closely, because I believe that there must be some signs of over-pressure (if not incipient case failure...then a cratered primer, embossed bolt face (on the head of the case), etc.). As to what to do with the rest of the Santa Barbara ammo...I don't believe that I would shoot it, until you are sure that the remainder of rounds are safe (an obvious suggestion, which I know that you've already thought of). If you handload, or have a friend that does, you could pull some bullets, then weigh some of the charges. This will give a good idea of the variances, if enough charges are weighed. Reject the high and low extremes (especially the high)...and average the rest....then reload the cartridges. It might be wise to back down the charge weight by a grain or so. Then, you would have ammo that you could be pretty sure is safe to shoot in the rifle. Of course, if you are not a handloader, this suggestion is moot.
Another possibility, which is NOT scientific...and NOT entirely reliable... is to shake each cartridge, listening carefully for variantions in the sound and feel. This will ONLY work in a very quiet place....and IF you have a good ear and sensitive touch. It will NOT allow the charges to be matched - and certainly will NOT allow variations in charge weights of less than several grains to be detected, but it could aid in "spotting" any more over-loaded cartridges. The real danger is that, if the first few rounds you shake are over-loaded....then the standard for detecting overloaded ones will be off. Whatever you do, be VERY careful.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. Good luck with this....and be careful.
As you said, it probably was an overcharged round that caused the "sticky bolt". You say that you didn't "beat up" the bolt...to get it open - OK, I'll take your word for it. To be fair, it certainly IS possible that the bolt handle happened to be defective....because the solder joint should have let go, well before the handle simply broke. But, the handle (a cast part) may have had a hairline crack in ....commonly referred to as a casting occlusion. If the bolt functions fine....slides back and forth in the receiver, locks and unlocks without binding, etc.....then it APPEARS that there is no permanent damage to the receiver or locking lugs. I would examine the bolt body and the lugs VERY closely, though, to be sure. Perhaps Remington will repair the bolt handle (replace it, actually) on warranty. I hope that they do.
But, I wouldn't simply condemn the rifle. We milsurp Mauser people are very used to "sticky bolt". Fortunately, in the case of the Mausers, the bolt handle is welded on - as part of the bolt body - and very robust. That is a weakness in the Remington bolt design, to be sure. It is not necessarily true that milsurp (7.62 NATO) ammo should not be used in the 700. I've had two rifles, exactly like yours (700 ADL's -in .308)...and together, both have seen a couple of thousand rounds of milsurp ammo. I always used the Australian ADI ammo, or, failing that, the South African ammo. Never had one problem with either....or the rifles...and both were quite accurate in my rifles (with the Aussie having a slight edge). Probably, the majority of the Santa Barbara ammo is OK. The combination of case dimensions that are perhaps, at the maximum limit of the spec'd tolerances...and the over- hot load, are what directly caused this problem. I would also examine the cartridge case in question closely, because I believe that there must be some signs of over-pressure (if not incipient case failure...then a cratered primer, embossed bolt face (on the head of the case), etc.). As to what to do with the rest of the Santa Barbara ammo...I don't believe that I would shoot it, until you are sure that the remainder of rounds are safe (an obvious suggestion, which I know that you've already thought of). If you handload, or have a friend that does, you could pull some bullets, then weigh some of the charges. This will give a good idea of the variances, if enough charges are weighed. Reject the high and low extremes (especially the high)...and average the rest....then reload the cartridges. It might be wise to back down the charge weight by a grain or so. Then, you would have ammo that you could be pretty sure is safe to shoot in the rifle. Of course, if you are not a handloader, this suggestion is moot.
Another possibility, which is NOT scientific...and NOT entirely reliable... is to shake each cartridge, listening carefully for variantions in the sound and feel. This will ONLY work in a very quiet place....and IF you have a good ear and sensitive touch. It will NOT allow the charges to be matched - and certainly will NOT allow variations in charge weights of less than several grains to be detected, but it could aid in "spotting" any more over-loaded cartridges. The real danger is that, if the first few rounds you shake are over-loaded....then the standard for detecting overloaded ones will be off. Whatever you do, be VERY careful.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. Good luck with this....and be careful.
I've recently been sold on Winchester pre-'68 actions. They appear to be very robust and I like the controlled feed as well as the beefy extractor (which is part of the controlled feed, I know, I know). The more I look at Remington from an engineer's perspective, the more I'd change the action.
The bolt handle is probably a casting. If there were significant microvoids then it would be relatively easy to break as you describe, but I'm still surprised. Can you take photos of the two individual [broken, mating] surfaces?
The bolt handle is probably a casting. If there were significant microvoids then it would be relatively easy to break as you describe, but I'm still surprised. Can you take photos of the two individual [broken, mating] surfaces?
Mathman,
wow that was pretty badly broken
See if you know anyone that can weld it back its in a non-critical area of the rifle so your not going to damage the heat treating I dont belive.
I think when you went to push it to get it to open you cracked the bolt on a fault or something. There is a good moral to this though. Had that be a M70 Winchester or the like that round that you shot might have over loaded and it might have been worse for you. The Push Feed design supports the round better giving you more safety.
If the bolt sezes up on a Push Feed on a Claw type bolt action the bolt will have probrobly gave up. Nevermind that the claw type handles the gas of a over charged case even worse
Godbless the Pushfeed system
Dimitri
wow that was pretty badly broken
See if you know anyone that can weld it back
its in a non-critical area of the rifle so your not going to damage the heat treating I dont belive. I think when you went to push it to get it to open you cracked the bolt on a fault or something. There is a good moral to this though. Had that be a M70 Winchester or the like that round that you shot might have over loaded and it might have been worse for you. The Push Feed design supports the round better giving you more safety.
If the bolt sezes up on a Push Feed on a Claw type bolt action the bolt will have probrobly gave up. Nevermind that the claw type handles the gas of a over charged case even worse
Godbless the Pushfeed system
Dimitri
I checked out a Savage today and I really liked it. I don't claim to know much about them, but it 'seemed' to be very well made and the extractor is beefier than the Remington's Extractor. I know some have said that they are ugly as sin, but frankly, the Remington ADL Synthetic that I own is no better looking.
I'll be looking at Savage, Winchester and Ruger for my next hunting rifle.
I'll be looking at Savage, Winchester and Ruger for my next hunting rifle.
bgoldhunter
New member
The picture didn't come up too clear for me, but looks like you can send it to hdrifles (link in my first post) and they can take care of it for you. I also agree that it was most likely caused by the ammo, a sticky bolt is a sure sign.
As far as a new rifle, well... I do prefer Winchesters myself. Don't get too hung up on the pre-64 stuff if you are just looking for a shooter, because it will cost you. The new rifles are either CRF or a CRPF hybrid, and I have had good luck with both.
The Savages I have been around have been great rifles, and my buddy's 12FVSS has me looking for one as well. The tupperware stock will need replacing IMO.
If you get a Ruger, set aside 70 bucks or so for a new trigger. The factory triggers are not adjustable and terrible. A Timney (and a B&C stock) has my MKII .270 driving tacks.
As far as a new rifle, well... I do prefer Winchesters myself. Don't get too hung up on the pre-64 stuff if you are just looking for a shooter, because it will cost you. The new rifles are either CRF or a CRPF hybrid, and I have had good luck with both.
The Savages I have been around have been great rifles, and my buddy's 12FVSS has me looking for one as well. The tupperware stock will need replacing IMO.
If you get a Ruger, set aside 70 bucks or so for a new trigger. The factory triggers are not adjustable and terrible. A Timney (and a B&C stock) has my MKII .270 driving tacks.
First off, good thing you are okay! That's what matters, broken gun or not.
Now, I will tell you that I have seen a Ruger 77 stick tight using mil-surp 7.62 ammo. Watched a guy come up to the line, take a coupe of shots, fiddle with the screws on the scope rings, then fire another shot, which did not seem unusual, and there was no lifting the bolt. Don't remember what kind of ammo he was shooting in it at the time, but it was definitely mil-surp 7.62, NOT commercial .308.
Me, personally, I'd refrain from using much 7.62 in a sporting .308, just as I don't use 5.56 in my .223 chambered AR. Well, I have, just enough to see that it was hot ammo, way hotter than my heavy match ammo which isn't putty-tat stuff either.
Good luck on your search for a different bolt action to replace your Remington. They should make your 700 good for you though.
Now, I will tell you that I have seen a Ruger 77 stick tight using mil-surp 7.62 ammo. Watched a guy come up to the line, take a coupe of shots, fiddle with the screws on the scope rings, then fire another shot, which did not seem unusual, and there was no lifting the bolt. Don't remember what kind of ammo he was shooting in it at the time, but it was definitely mil-surp 7.62, NOT commercial .308.
Me, personally, I'd refrain from using much 7.62 in a sporting .308, just as I don't use 5.56 in my .223 chambered AR. Well, I have, just enough to see that it was hot ammo, way hotter than my heavy match ammo which isn't putty-tat stuff either.
Good luck on your search for a different bolt action to replace your Remington. They should make your 700 good for you though.
Here is my analysis of your photograph:
The M700 bolt body is a screw machined part from bar stock steel, to which is attached the separate piece that forms the bolt handle.
The bolt handle is an investment cast steel part, and is joined to the bolt body by furnace brazing or silver soldering (cannot tell by color alone here).
It it's obvious that the brazed joint has failed. What's also interesting is that the fractured portion of the bolt handle also has what appears to be two different grain structures. This implies that a crack existed in the bolt handle PRIOR to the final failure when you "tapped" on the bolt handle.
I think we have a case of a latent flaw in the bolt handle, coupled with a classic handle brazing failure.
Send it to Remington. They will fix it.
- Status