Illegal search at Wal-mart?...
- Thread starter Danno
- Start date
My view on this? If you don't like their policy on checking bags when you leave the store, don't go there. They should not have to write their policies to make you happy while on their property.
Personally, I just show them the bag and reciept. Why anyone would want to turn this into a situtation about their rights being violated I do not know.
Personally, I just show them the bag and reciept. Why anyone would want to turn this into a situtation about their rights being violated I do not know.
"My view on this? If you don't like their policy on checking bags when you leave the store, don't go there. They should not have to write their policies to make you happy while on their property."
My view is I could care less if some sheeple wish to comply with unlawful acts. I will not.
My view is I could care less if some sheeple wish to comply with unlawful acts. I will not.
Yep, I'm a sheeple because I choose to follow the rules that a private party sets down for you to use their land.
Guess what? I support private businesses right to keep CCW's off their land, too. I just choose to never go there.
Private property should be just that, private. You have no need to go on Wal-Mart's land, and even less need to tell them how they should accomidate you while on their land.
Guess what? I support private businesses right to keep CCW's off their land, too. I just choose to never go there.
Private property should be just that, private. You have no need to go on Wal-Mart's land, and even less need to tell them how they should accomidate you while on their land.
jburtonpdx
New member
You said it brother!
As far as I am concerned Wally World gets to make the rules on there property, just like get to in my house! I want to be able to say dont do this or you have to do that to be in my house, Wally World gets to say the same thing in my book.
Wall mart does not get to say that they can unlawfully detain me and search my private chattels (which is what their merchandise becomes after I have paid for it) solely on a whim. If they have probable cause it becomes another matter. Private property does not mean they are immune from the consequences of their actions. I could care less if others are willing to put up with unlawful actions but have nothing but contempt for those who would chastise others for not accepting illegal actions to be perpetrated upon their persons.
jburtonpdx
New member
They also do not get to say that you have to shop there. I would rather the free market economy regulate them then the state. Sure you may be technically correct (I dont know and do not care honestly). If I am in your house and I dont like the rules you lay down, I leave and dont come back. I would expect the same if you were in my house.
I have never seen Target do the reciept thing or Meijer (a wallmart type store in Ohio).
Keep in mind I am talking about the reciept checking thing and or the buzzer at the door going off. I am not talking about being grabbed and held, at that point there is a going to be an attorney involved.
FrankDrebin
Moderator
When did they ever force you to let them search your bag?
Nope. These things are so jacked up that no real since of reliability can be claimed. Radar guns have been proven reliable, and therefore enjoy judicial acceptance. Until the EAS is a whole lot closer to 100 % it will never constitute probable cause. Keep in mind though that an individual in many cases, having been caught removing an EAS tag, to defeat the system, can be charged with a felony.
"When did they ever force you to let them search your bag?"
They never have sucessfully done that to me although the attempt has been made at a best buy (twice) and at a Wall-mart. I refused to comply and left ignoring their threats.
If you don't lie you don't need a good memory, if you don't steal you have nothing to fear from theats to call the police.
As for the private property theory. If you invite me to come to your house and spend my money with newspaper and television ads I might do so. If you decide you can make me empty my pockets when I leave because I "may" have taken something I did not pay for even if you didn't see me do so. I will laugh at you also.
They never have sucessfully done that to me although the attempt has been made at a best buy (twice) and at a Wall-mart. I refused to comply and left ignoring their threats.
If you don't lie you don't need a good memory, if you don't steal you have nothing to fear from theats to call the police.
As for the private property theory. If you invite me to come to your house and spend my money with newspaper and television ads I might do so. If you decide you can make me empty my pockets when I leave because I "may" have taken something I did not pay for even if you didn't see me do so. I will laugh at you also.
FrankDrebin
Moderator
Well, when did they ever TRY to forcibly search your bags by putting their hands on you or otherwise preventing you from leaving?
Anyone that has been to a store in the past 10 years knows that if you set off the buzzer when walking out the door, they are going to look in your bags. Don't like it? Don't go.
Something else that will probably get you riled up. I was in Daytona Beach last week. At their K-Mart, they had a guy that checked everyone's bags and reciepts before they left the store. You handed them the reciept, they looked in your bags, and signed off on the reciept. Again, I had no problem with that, because they had a sign up telling me that was how it was going to be, and I had evry opportunity to leave without buying anything.
Something else that will probably get you riled up. I was in Daytona Beach last week. At their K-Mart, they had a guy that checked everyone's bags and reciepts before they left the store. You handed them the reciept, they looked in your bags, and signed off on the reciept. Again, I had no problem with that, because they had a sign up telling me that was how it was going to be, and I had evry opportunity to leave without buying anything.
Kevin Quinlan
Moderator
They have the same system at the Public Library. It goes off every 15-20 people. It happens so often there they just wave you through.
Kevin
Kevin
Well, when did they ever TRY to forcibly search your bags by putting their hands on you or otherwise preventing you from leaving?
I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or if you just enjoy being obstreperous, but to answer your question to the best of my recollection officer. Approximately June 0f 2003 and December 0f 2004 at Best Buy in K.C. the first time the door checker attempted to block me from leaving through the door and told me that I MUST let him check my bag. I told him that he could either move or one of us could call the police, he chose to move, the second time was a different checker and pretty much followed the same scenario. Now since you are purportedly an LEO you know that his refusal to let me leave was a detention, no matter how brief. Wal-Mart was much simpler, the young man at the garden entrance attempted to stop me until I asked him if he suspected me of shoplifting or was detaining me for some other reason. He immediately stepped to the side and let me pass. Hmmm, you think he has been briefed? In no instance were hands laid upon me or a 42 lawsuit would have resulted. Any other questions?
I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or if you just enjoy being obstreperous, but to answer your question to the best of my recollection officer. Approximately June 0f 2003 and December 0f 2004 at Best Buy in K.C. the first time the door checker attempted to block me from leaving through the door and told me that I MUST let him check my bag. I told him that he could either move or one of us could call the police, he chose to move, the second time was a different checker and pretty much followed the same scenario. Now since you are purportedly an LEO you know that his refusal to let me leave was a detention, no matter how brief. Wal-Mart was much simpler, the young man at the garden entrance attempted to stop me until I asked him if he suspected me of shoplifting or was detaining me for some other reason. He immediately stepped to the side and let me pass. Hmmm, you think he has been briefed? In no instance were hands laid upon me or a 42 lawsuit would have resulted. Any other questions?
Anyone that has been to a store in the past 10 years knows that if you set off the buzzer when walking out the door, they are going to look in your bags. Don't like it? Don't go.
Something else that will probably get you riled up. I was in Daytona Beach last week. At their K-Mart, they had a guy that checked everyone's bags and reciepts before they left the store. You handed them the reciept, they looked in your bags, and signed off on the reciept. Again, I had no problem with that, because they had a sign up telling me that was how it was going to be, and I had evry opportunity to leave without buying anything.
That doesn't rile me one bit, I feel just as free to ignore your suggestion not to go there as I do their signs.
Something else that will probably get you riled up. I was in Daytona Beach last week. At their K-Mart, they had a guy that checked everyone's bags and reciepts before they left the store. You handed them the reciept, they looked in your bags, and signed off on the reciept. Again, I had no problem with that, because they had a sign up telling me that was how it was going to be, and I had evry opportunity to leave without buying anything.
That doesn't rile me one bit, I feel just as free to ignore your suggestion not to go there as I do their signs.
FrankDrebin
Moderator
Yeah; If no one ever detained you to search your bags when you didn't want to be detained, why are you making such an issue out of it? As far as his "refusal to let you leave", that was certainly NOT a detention, since you did not submit and he didn't physically have control of you. And I don't think I'm the one being obtuse. From reading your posts, I believe it would be reasonable to think that you were at some point actually detained by store employees who searched your bags against your wishes. Especially since you keep going on about "unlawful acts" with no apparent understanding of the term. The requests or orders from store employees who ask you to stop, or even TELL you to stop so that they can search your bags, and the resulting search are not "unlawful" unless they try to forcibly detain you. And as has been explained before, even if you are unlawfully detained at some point, which you never were, the resultant search would not be unlawful because you have no 4th amendment protection from store employees not acting as agents of the governement. The only "unlawful" part would be the physical assault needed to detain you against your will, or the resultant "false imprisonment" were you to actually submit, which, according to you, you've never been subjected to, yet allude to throughout your posts. I'm not the one who's been obtuse.
Would you be happier if your local stores dropped their door security measures and gained a reputation as easy marks for theives, then endured such an ongoing shrinkage problem that they shut down the store and moved 20 miles away?
Sometimes it's not all about "you".
Egregiously misinformed
"Wal-Mart was much simpler, the young man at the garden entrance attempted to stop me until I asked him if he suspected me of shoplifting or was detaining me for some other reason. He immediately stepped to the side and let me pass. Hmmm, you think he has been briefed? In no instance were hands laid upon me or a 42 lawsuit would have resulted. Any other questions?"
Yes: What delusions are you under? Besides the one that Wal-Mart checking you bags somehow constitutes "state action" or is otherwise under "color of law?"
Your erroneous assertion about a "42 lawsuit" is, presumably, an inaccurate claim of readiness to file a civil rights lawsuit under 42 USC 1983. As such, they are referred to as "1983 actions."
Additionally, as was stated before, Wal-Mart is not a governmental entity. Ergo, your vaunted civil rights lawsuit is a non-starter. :
"Wal-Mart was much simpler, the young man at the garden entrance attempted to stop me until I asked him if he suspected me of shoplifting or was detaining me for some other reason. He immediately stepped to the side and let me pass. Hmmm, you think he has been briefed? In no instance were hands laid upon me or a 42 lawsuit would have resulted. Any other questions?"
Yes: What delusions are you under? Besides the one that Wal-Mart checking you bags somehow constitutes "state action" or is otherwise under "color of law?"
Your erroneous assertion about a "42 lawsuit" is, presumably, an inaccurate claim of readiness to file a civil rights lawsuit under 42 USC 1983. As such, they are referred to as "1983 actions."
Additionally, as was stated before, Wal-Mart is not a governmental entity. Ergo, your vaunted civil rights lawsuit is a non-starter. :
Since I work both sides of this issue let me say this. If I can prove, with a doubt that you have stolen merchandise, ie. the standard, I saw you steal something, and never lost sight sight of you, or you have been video taped through the complete concealment, and denial of property routine, I will ask you to stop. If you refuse I will stop you. By whatever means are at my disposal.
If the buzzer goes off, and I don't have the evidence of proof, all I can do is ask you to step back inside to resolve the issue. If you politely refuse, you are free to leave. No law prohibits my asking this of you, but it does prohibit me from determining guilt based soley on the EAS.
Now if I ask you to step back inside, and you become unrully, loud, and obnoxious, then you have just changed things to creating a disturbance. If you get in my face, and threaten me, or attempt to intimidate me in a rude, or insolent manner you have just changed the game rules, and ball is my court.
Thus when the bell rings I politely decline to stop, and point out that the cashier needs further training, or the system needs adjusting. But then I don't steal.
If the buzzer goes off, and I don't have the evidence of proof, all I can do is ask you to step back inside to resolve the issue. If you politely refuse, you are free to leave. No law prohibits my asking this of you, but it does prohibit me from determining guilt based soley on the EAS.
Now if I ask you to step back inside, and you become unrully, loud, and obnoxious, then you have just changed things to creating a disturbance. If you get in my face, and threaten me, or attempt to intimidate me in a rude, or insolent manner you have just changed the game rules, and ball is my court.
Thus when the bell rings I politely decline to stop, and point out that the cashier needs further training, or the system needs adjusting. But then I don't steal.