Illegal Aliens: Misc. News Stories

President Bush - the greatest leader of our time - described these Minutemen as "vigilantes" March 25, 2005 Washington). Condoleezza Rice - the poster child for 2008 added "My country will not tolerate illegal actions by the Minutemen vigilantes". (March 11, 2005 - Mexico City) At least they're on the same page.

It's pretty clear the Minutemen should leave border protection to the professionals. President Bush and his team have proposed a "reasonable solution" to the immigration problem. I don't know why Congress is dragging their feet on implementing it - it's just so "reasonable". Google it, you'll be amazed at how often he and his brother Jeb have "reasonable solutions".
 
As usual, Leif ignores that which is inconvenient to his leftist/Democrat/socialist worldview, to wit:
Mexico may not be the official enemy of the U.S Government, but it sure as hell is the enemy of We The People. If it is not stopped, unchecked illegal immigration will destroy this nation, plain and simple.
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I rest my case.
 
I guess I am confused. Leif are you defending the Government of this great country selling out its citzens position for.....people who are not citizens to enter the country illegally?

If the story is true (and I am not assuming it is) but, if it is true. then I think the U.S. Governments actions are treasonous. The Government has a duty to protect we the people from all threats, both foriegn and domestic. Right?

Giving information to aid people to more easily break the law is not aiding and abetting? Now I am really confused.

And, we are still a ways from civil war but, civil unrest is on the horizon.
 
2ndamd, I haven't even addressed the article itself as yet, other than to note that the posted link does not (and still does not) work (2nd Amendment, thanks for providing the working link), so I haven't attacked or defended anything about the Federal government's position with respect to this issue within this thread as yet. I merely spent a few posts trying to move the thread away from rhetorical nonesense about wars when no such state of hostilities actually exists or is likely to exist. It might be fun to play with words like 'treason' and 'enemies of the people,' but that doesn't make it correct or useful. When such a state of hostility actually exists between the governments of the United States and Mexico, then I'll stand corrected, but until such time, rambling on about 'enemies of the people' is just what I said it was - trite flamebait. Apparently in steelheart's eyes, that makes me a socialist, so thank you Mr. McCarthy. :rolleyes:

Turning to the article itself, I'm unsure what to make of it. The original article contains little substantive information beyond leaked statements from purported members of the Border Patrol and self-fulfilling paranoia from the Minutemen (basically, "see, the Mexican authorities always show up where we plan to go, so the US government must be telling them where we are"). I gather from the original article not that the United States is informing on the Minutemen to the Mexican government generally and in advance of action, but rather that they inform the Mexican government if and when the Minutemen are involved in the interdiction or death of Mexican nationals, which is a very different scenario from that presented or implied by any of the subsequent comments.

Part of the problem here lies in the fact that the article relies upon and links to documents of the Mexican government that are in Spanish, which I cannot read. If somebody who reads Spanish would like to post a translation of those documents, then maybe some of the confusion could be clarified.

Also, does anybody have any other confirmation of this story, or other links?
 
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Mexico always has been and will continue to be a thorn in the side of the US as long as we let them.Its a well known fact that had Germany offered enough during WWII,Mexico would have invaded from the south.I doubt their incompetent military could have done much but nevertheless,they would have done it for the right amount of $$$$$.
 
Te Anau, what does any of that have to do with your statements regarding the supposed desireability of a civil war within the United States or its having things happen to it like what happened to the Soviet Union (I'm still not quite sure what that means)?

Not to mention, what does any of that have to do with the article that is the topic of this thread?

Also, I think that you're thinking about the Zimmermann telegram incident during the First World War, not the Second. Mexico actually was allied to the United States during the Second World War, IIRC, although not heavily involved in military operations.
 
I did not call you a Socialist. Others have but not me.

Thank you for pointing out that the link was not working.

I guess I am still confused. I am not assuming the article is true and accurate. But, ponder the implications if this is happening. The U.S. Government is aiding and abetting people from a foriegn land to invade this country illegally by helping them stay clear of capture by the country's citizenry. If true. How would you define such and action?

Would it be treasonous? Perhaps some could define it that way.

Would it be illegal? Perhaps. I think many/most would say "Yes. It is illegal".

Would it be irresponsible for the US Gov to help people from a foriegn land to more easily enter into the country illegally? I can not think of a person I know that would not say "Yes it is very irresponsible. And needs to be addressed and corrected." Unless you would throw your name into the hat of someone that would not feel such an action is irresponsible.

I am one that opts for Treason. Since we are in the middle of a war I feel the Governments responsibility to We the People is to protect our boarders in a time of war. And, not to let people enter more easily/illegally.

Civil unrest is assured.......already exist if you think of the minutemen as vigilantes. Is that not a form of civil unrest? The citizens do not trust their gov. to protect their boarders. So the citizens take action to defend this country from illegals.
 
2ndamd, I apologize. I realize that you did not call me a socialist, but my writing seems to imply that, when I had steelheart's post in mind. I'll change that shortly. :o

My point was that regardless of whether these particular actions of the United States government should be treated as "treasonous" or not, the article is not clear as to what exactly those actions are, and my inability to read Spanish prevents me from verifying what exactly the information posted by the Mexican government actually has to say. So, rather than jump to a conclusion bound to elicit strong emotions even though that conclusion ultimately may prove to be wrong, I am awaiting clarification, verification, and translation with respect to this particular issue/report.
 
Gee, it almost sounds as if "The Government" is aiding and abetting the enemy...
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Maybe we should re-evaluate...
Perhaps our "government is the enemy? :(
Excuse my ignorance, but what are the minutemen? Vigilantes?
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By definition they are in fact "vigilantes"...
In reality they are volunteers who have organized to "Watch" the Mexican border and report illegals to the Border Patrol... They have been very effective in slowing the influx of the intruders and especially effective in bringing the "problem" to the fore... The Liberal media notwithstanding.

When the media does make a report on the "Minutemen" it is generally from the premise that they are fanatical citizens acting illegally, or at least immorally, and they call them Vigilantes as if that was a bad thing...

Vigilance is a virtue, and volunteerism is the American way. :)
 
The thread entitled: "US Govt tells Mex of Minuteman strength and deployment," has been merged with the main Illegal Aliens: Misc. thread.

widgetman, you have a PM.
 
But vigilance and vigilantism aren't the same. Being vigilant would involve reporting of the illegals, or making a citizens arrest, which I'd support. Hopefully, that's what the "minutemen" are doing. Unfortunately, I'm picking up a dread suspicion that they're an illegal band of radicals, patroling the border for Mexicans to kill. I sorely hope I'm mistaken on this, for in such a scenario, they'd be an American Al-Queda. Outlaw radicals, searching for foreign devils to attack, in the name of America, like the extremist muslims view and commit unto us in Iraq. Something infinitely more sinister than the illegals themselves. Someone please tell me this is not the case.
 
Unfortunately, I'm picking up a dread suspicion that they're an illegal band of radicals, patroling the border for Mexicans to kill.
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razorburn, I think that might be taking it a bit too far.

I will say, though, that a bunch of civilians, armed or unarmed, running around the border thinking that the country is in a state of war with the country that shares that border strikes me as a recipe for disaster. Nothing good can come of that.
 
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Mexico could hardly be called an ally of the United States------EVER!

"President Roosevelt was sufficiently concerned about the possibility of a German-
Mexican rapprochement to call a joint session of Congress in May, 1940. At the
conference he warned that, in the event of a war, Mexico might fall under German
influence. As he reminded his listeners, ?Tampico is only two and a quarter hours
away [by air] from Saint Louis, Kansas City and Omaha.?
 
Te Anau, from what source is your quotation taken?

Furthermore, what does it have to do at all with either the article in question or the subsequent points that you made within this thread, other than involve Mexico?
 
Te Anau, that was an interesting paper, thanks for the link. Out of curiousity, did you actually read the entire paper? :confused:

What the paper demonstrates is not so much a consistent pattern of enmity maintained by Mexico against the United States, but rather a calculating promotion of self-interest by an independent nation (otherwise known as Realpolitik or "looking out for Numero Uno"), which pretty much charactized all of the parties involved and frankly is what countries do. How exactly are you going to fault the government of Mexico for looking out for itself and its economic interests, especially when (as the paper documents) their rival to the north had taken to punishing it for its economic policies?

Furthermore, what the paper does not demonstrate is that Mexico posed any serious military risk to the United States at the time. I found the discussion of Hoover's exaggerated reports concerning possible Axis activities and threats originating in Mexico quite telling and not all that dissimilar from some of the more histrionic perspectives that inform debate about this issue today. That FDR used this to his advantage is, again, not entirely unexpected; how many times have we heard the 'War on Terror' used to excuse all sorts of government programs of dubious wisdom or legality?

And, again, what does this have to do with the issue at hand or the points that you have made within this thread? To say that the governments of the US and Mexico haven't always been on the best of terms, or haven't always trusted each other, or haven't played diplomatic and economic games with each other isn't particularly enlightening. However, if that is the measure of an enemy, then pretty much every government in the entire world should be perceived as our enemies. This is why precision in language is important, and the application of labels like 'enemy' with too great haste and emotion are unhelpful at the very least.

For example, I quote Pointer's post above:
Perhaps our "government is the enemy?
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In what way is that even a remotely helpful statement?

You still haven't answered my question as to what possible benefit you feel would be derived from another civil war within this country, but I suppose that should be a different thread.
 
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I firmly believe that the wedge being driven into American society by the first group of "immigrants" to come to the US with the full expectation that WE adapt to THEIR ways as opposed to their adapting to the "American" way will dissolve into a situation not unlike that of the Balkans.A civil war may follow,as Americans will be literally forced to adapt to the "New Mexico" that our politicians will have allowed to evolve within our own borders.It is well known that there are groups in Mexico and the US whos sole goal is the reconquest of the "lost" northern territories which just so happen to be New Mexico,California,Arizona,Texas and parts of Colorado.I believe the name for this new country as they see it will be Aztlan.
 
Umm, you still haven't addressed either how your historical examples bear on the subject at all or why you would actively wish for a civil war. You stated that you hoped this would lead to another American civil war, so why would you want such a thing to happen?

And again, how is any of this relevant in any specific sense, other than wide-ranging ideological rambling about Mexico, to the article about the US government ostensibly supplying information about the Minutemen to the Mexican government? Let's drop the shotgun for the .22 and get back to the topic at hand.
 
You stated that you hoped this would lead to another American civil war, so why would you want such a thing to happen?
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When American citizens lose the states Ive mentioned and its finally clear to everyone that they are lost,it will hopefully cause a national uprising that will reclaim those states and expel the Mexicans who have stolen it from us.I dont know how much clearer I can be.Mexico will cause a "war" of one kind or another on our southern border.Its already happening daily right now.Dont you watch or read any news? The US government should be supporting the Minutemen who have the guts to do what it wont......patrol our southern border! Instead,they report positions to the Mexican government so that Mexico can put reports out to its citizens where not too illegally cross this week? How does that secure our southern border?
 
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