If you shoot a home intruder...

Guys keep one thing in mind here.

Reading what to do, or knowing what to do is all fine.

But doing it after you just put a couple of rounds into a guy who is now dead in your house, perhaps with your family inside with you, that is a different thing.

If you have never experience what "going into shock" means then you know what I am talking about. The adrenaline can help you fight it off for awhile and maybe the situation, having family who needs you right then, that might help. But some folks, they finish calling 911, hang up and sit down to wait for the cops, and quietly just zone out and become incapable of reason or correct action. Heck you could actually die just from going into shock. That's where the term "scared to death" comes from.

I suggest you really understand just how important it is for you to recognize how important it is for you not to allow yourself to fall into a state of shock.
 
From experience I can say what I felt as it was happening to the best of my memory.

I witnessed a really bad accident and everything that could be done was being done as we all waited for an ambulance. A guy said I should sit down so I did.

As soon as I sat down my mind just started to stop thinking. You know how a really complex machine might have a dozen or more switches and gauges and a specific order to start and stop it ?

It was like someone was performing a shutdown sequence on my mind. All I know is I woke up in the hospital, I remember nothing in between. I don't know if I passed out, or if I was questioned, or anything at all really. So be ready cause it sure can happen and adrenaline is only good for so long.

Short, shallow breaths, dry mouth, a dislocated feeling, that's about all the warning you will get, ohh, and someone suggesting that you sit down.
 
While its been covered a bit previously, I will add... Cover the W's and the one H.

Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How.

Who?

"I live here, he ( the guy injured) broke in"

What?

"I live here, and was (watching TV or surfing the internet, etc)"

When?

"After it happened I pulled my cell phone from my pocket and called 911 for help, here, let me confirm the time I called 911 for you on my phone. I called as soon as it was over"

Where?

"I live here (alone, with family, wife or kids, or this is my work, etc)"

Why?

"He forced his way in by (insert here, he kicked in the door, or broke the window and crawled in) and since he did so, I was in fear. I was in the (insert room) and then I wound out in the (insert room) when it was over"

How?

" I (shot, stabbed, etc) him with this, and I saw his weapon (fall under him, roll off, or picked up by another)"

Then say, I am shook up, I need to get myself together, and I think its best to speak with a lawyer...

What does this do?

It shows you are initially being co-operative to law enfrocement. It also shows you are trying to show WHY you did what you did, as well as how, and what may have happened to the person who broke in your home's weapon, or the evidence of a weapon.


As far as calling 911 and then a lawyer, here you wont typically have that chance. The telecommunicater will do their best to keep you online until law enforcement arrive, while trying to relay your communications to the responding officers.

Many folks say dont talk to law enforcement... I say bull... You have to give basic information, because the responding law enforcement are responding to not only a home invasion, but if you defended yourself, a possible murder, and they will, at least initially treat it as such. Self defense, depending on your views, is an excusible homicide. The responding officers will treat it as a homicide (or at least they should) and then go from there. Your (as a victim) statements, albeit brief, should point out that you are a victim, and why, and your incredibly brief actions.

Glenn E. Meyer said:
I don't know about your lawyer - but you will get an answering service in the middle of the night - unless you have a personal number that said lawyer will pick up.
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And when you get the answering machine, and you are asked questions as to why there is a dead person there, and you are here doing (whatever you said to 911) you may have a long night until your lawyer checks his messages...

Once you give a brief statement, you will be understandably shook up, and need time to compose yourself and hopefully speak with a lawyer. This time to compose yourself and speak with a lawyer can vary from being secured by another officer, to being cuffed and placed in a car, or in the extreme case, possibly held overnight. Afterwards, when you are questioned you will be given your rights, and asked if you want a lawyer, (possibly they may ask you to sign a statement that you wave your rights) then from there its up to the officers and their respective viewpoints after your initial statement and the evidence.

Think for a moment...If you were a police officer responding, what would you think? Would you prefer a brief statement, or would you (as a police officer) want to be met immediatly with "I want my lawyer before I make any statement."

By the time your lawyer arrives, some of the evidence may have already been moved or even destroyed...
 
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I watched a great video a few years back by a criminal defense attorney speaking on this topic. He proved that there is literally nothing you can say to the police that will help you in any way. Any and all information you give to the police will only be used to build a case against you. The scene speaks for itself. If the prosecution decides to prosecute you based on an erroneous interpretation of the evidence, it is not your expertise to contradict the interpretation. That is your attorney's job. You will do nothing but screw yourself over and weaken your defense. Keep your mouth shut. I'm paraphrasing, but here is the jist of what he recommended:

If you are in fear for your life, there is no choice but to shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. Dial 911, but do not answer whatever questions the dispatcher is asking.

1. My name is (your name) and I just shot an intruder in my home because I was in fear for my life and that of my family.

2. The intruder is down. everyone else is safe. Please dispatch emergency personnel immediately to (your address).

3. Please advise the police that I am a (brief description of yourself) and that I am placing the gun down away from my person. My (other family members) are here and I will have them wait (safe location in the home). Everyone is unarmed and safe.

At this point, the dispatcher is going to try and get you to elaborate. Do not give any more information for any reason. Politely tell him/her that you are hanging up now and will wait for the police to arrive, and thank them for their help. If you don't want to hang up, answer any of her questions with, "I wish I could be more helpful, but I will need to speak with my attorney before saying anything further."

When the police arrive, here is the information the police require:

1. Tell them who you are, where the rest of your family is, and that no one else is injured.
2. Tell them where the perp is, if it isn't obvious.
3. Tell them where the firearm is.
4. Tell them you feared for your life and that of your family.

It does not matter what information the cops are asking for, or any other questions they might have. Give them the above information, and the above information only. Do not give any other information for any reason.

The police will continue to ask questions, and pressure you to elaborate. Reply to any and all of their questions with "I wish I could be more helpful, but I will need to speak with my attorney before saying anything further." It doesn't matter how many additional questions the cops ask, just respond to each one with the exact same phrase. They will get the message. Also... you are going downtown. Whether you are smart, and keep your mouth shut, or you try and talk the cops heads off about how you're a law abiding citizen to keep from going downtown.

Make sure your family knows this as well. Drill and practice the police interrogation scenario with them, because you will not be in a state of mind to think on your feet if you end up in this situation. Never, EVER speak to the police. Your attorney is your voice.
 
Posted by coachteet: I watched a great video a few years back by a criminal defense attorney speaking on this topic. He proved that there is literally nothing you can say to the police that will help you in any way. Any and all information you give to the police will only be used to build a case against you. The scene speaks for itself. If the prosecution decides to prosecute you based on an erroneous interpretation of the evidence, it is not your expertise to contradict the interpretation. That is your attorney's job. You will do nothing but screw yourself over and weaken your defense. Keep your mouth shut.
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As Frank Ettin has already taken the trouble to explain in one of the links in Post 11, the advice in that widely distributed video was not intended for self defense cases.

The advice applies when it is the duty of the state to prove that you did the deed.

In a self defense case, you must necessarily admit to having done the deed, and you must produce evidence that you were lawfully justified in having done so.

The evidence at the scene and witnesses may disappear forever if they are not pointed, out, and since very few shootings in the out of doors do involve self defense, there is no reason to expect arriving officers to look for it.

In a home intrusion the evidence may be obvious, but relying on inapplicable advice in a self defense case that occurs elsewhere could seal one's fate.

In a home invasion, the evidence may be obvious, but perhaps not all of it. Should there be no evidence of breakage I would probably want to point out where the person shot came in, and I would certainly want to point out whether I knew of any others who had fled.

And frankly, I question the advantage of saying "I feared for my life,"
 
dajowi said:
...Since you're innocent until proven guilty, best to say nothing or as little as possible.
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Understand that when you claim self defense, the presumption of innocence is turned on its head. You will necessarily admit that you intentionally shot someone. That would ordinarily be what the prosecutor would have to prove, but you will be admitting it. Your defense against criminal liability for you intentional act of extreme violence against another human will be that it was legally justified.
 
Making a claim of self-defense means you will have to show evidence of the crime committed against you -- the one that made it necessary for you to shoot.

If the responding officers do not hear about that crime, they won't investigate it or look for evidence that it happened.

Without evidence of the crime committed against you, you'll have a much harder time defending your use of deadly force. "Self-defense" falls down as a claim if there wasn't anything for you to defend against.

Be a good witness. Tell the arriving officers there was a crime committed against you. Point out evidence and witnesses. Then shut up.

pax
 
Kraigwy mentioned something I thought was interesting...getting insurance.

Can you GET insurance to cover your legal fees in case you are involved in a shooting? This could be very beneficial.
 
Dale,

You don't want insurance. You do want help with your legal bills.

The difference between the two is this: insurance pays out only after you are acquitted, and only if you go to trial and are found not guilty on every charge including minor ones. It does not pay any fees you accrue if your case does not go to trial. It will not pay if you are found guilty of a minor charge or if you accept a good plea bargain.

If you successfully navigate the tricky legal waters before trial, you should be able to keep your case out of court in the first place. Not going to trial is usually a much better outcome financially, socially, and emotionally. By educating yourself before your event, and by hiring a good lawyer and some specialists (such as a private investigator to give your lawyer the ammunition he or she needs to make your case to the prosecutor not to press charges) immediately after your event, you improve your chances of avoiding trial or facing prosecution in the first place. But insurance won't help you cover those pre-trial costs if you successfully avoid trial.

What you should look for instead is a plan that:

1) Offers some immediate money to your lawyer to get your legal defense moving in the right direction right away. Criminal attorneys do not offer their services in advance of payment, so if you don't have $10k or so sitting around ready to use, you want to look for a plan that takes care of that.

2) Provides some form of specialized, expert assistance to your lawyer, because justified self-defense is a very narrow field. Most criminal defense attorneys will go through an entire career without ever seeing a truly justified self defense; although self defense claims are very common, justified claims by people who are truly innocent are extremely rare, and need to be treated quite differently than the more usual types of claims.

3) Offers financial benefits that do not require your case going to trial, because the best outcomes involve pursuading the prosecutor not to press forward in the first place. Going to trial with a not-guilty outcome is second-best, not the ideal plan. And even getting that second best outcome requires a big up front financial investment that you might not be able to swing without help.

My recommendation is joining ACLDN -- www.armedcitizensnetwork.org. The disclaimer is that the founder of ACLDN (Marty Hayes) is a close personal friend and neighbor of mine, and my mentor in the world of firearms instruction, so I'm biased. On the other hand, after knowing him personally for the past 14 years and seeing up close how he does business over the years, I can tell you I have complete faith in his integrity and ability to do the things he promises to do through ACLDN. That's not something I can say for most of the other insurance and non-insurance options that are out there.

pax
 
Thanks Pax...

Thank you Pax....
I'm not a resident of the metro OK City or OKC area.
I just recall a few points of the high profile criminal investigation.

I just checked the media animated simulation of the documented events but the website link did not work. :mad:

CF
 
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First off as a police officer I fully expect to be taken into custody, if for no other reason but for questioning. As a former Private Investigator I know it would not be wise on my part to make any statements except my name, and that my attorney will be handling my affairs from here on. After my call to law enforcement which will include a brief statement that I was in fear of my life or the life of a loved one (which will most likely be recorded) my next call is to my attorney. Remember that law enforcement is not necessarily your friend in this situation but your attorney (who works for you) is. I will cooperate with the responding officers as much as possible in as safe a manner as possible. Far too many good guys have been mistakenly shot by responding officers for simple things such as bringing your hands up to surrender with the gun in your hand. This action may be misread by an officer already nervous and on high alert. Don't get me wrong, most of my friends wear a badge and carry a gun but when my freedom is at stake they have a job to do and so does my attorney.
 
Thanks Pax!

I did not realize the in's and out's. Your info is a real eye opener for me and something I admit I should check out rather than sit here with my head in the sand and my fingers crossed.
 
The police returned the next day and arrested the home owner because his life was not being threatened when the shot was fired. I can't remember the exact charges but it is something along the lines of discharging a firearm in city limits.
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Not surprising.
If the need arises to draw my weapon and the perp takes off, I'm certainly not discharging my firearm in any direction. That's pretty stupid IMO.
 
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