If you shoot a home intruder...

I live in Lousiana; the police practically hand out medals of achievement for shooting home intruders.
I know it's not like that in other states.
Texas; shoot first, questions later.
Massachusetts; you better have six witnesses that swear you had no choice.
Check your state laws and the attitude of law enforcement.

Don't forget possible civil suits. Criminals have sued and won damages for being shot while doing their "work".
 
Not reporting a shooting right away, dragging the bodies from where they were shot and shooting them as they lay wounded on the floor are all bad things to do.
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All quite true.

And yet it was a case where

1) The intruders were definitely thieves, possibly worse;

2) The original shooting could have been justifiable;

3) The intruders were not "the wife or G/F ex, or better new boyfriend"; and

4) The homeowner was definitely not "just fine" when the police arrived.

Note, too, that MN has a very strong Castle Doctrine in the black-letter law (which is as far as most people ever look). Their case law is a little more nuanced than the black-letter law would indicate.

In any case, this isn't an area where we can say, "Well, all you have to do is [blah blah blah]."

In order to have a realistic hope of being "just fine" -- no matter who the dead body in your living room belongs to! -- you actually need to know what the law is, in advance; you need to make a conscious attempt to stay on the right side of the law both before and during the event; you have to avoid doing stupid things after the event; and you have to present the facts in such a way that others understand and agree with what you did.

pax
 
Lot of silly comments here.

Since we all don't live in the same neighborhood, a correct answer would be to consult with an attorney in your area.

If you're really concerned you might want to think about getting insurance to cover a defense situation.
 
Yes, 50 states ranging from very pro-RKBA/Castle Doctrine ones to those that are not,plus Federal jurisdiction. +1 to what Kraigwy said.
 
I think it all depends on your locality. And what cops show up at your door.
They used to say here, if you shoot someone in the yard, drag them inside.
But they never said how to explain the large blood trail in the door.
You have to understand that not all cops are that 'observant'.
Frequently in many jurisdictions there is a district attorney hearing and evidence is taken.
Then they evaluate and determine what they will do.
Here, they are grossly overloaded with cases. And they all have political ambitions.
So if you don't have a lot of publicity, you may have no problem.
dc

Oh, yeah, 'scuse me. Consult an attorney in your jurisdiction.
 
It depends on local law, and how the police and DA interpret them. It can really vary from county to county even though state laws are the same.

Where I live you have a right to defend yourself and family if you feel threatened. It does not have to be inside your home, but proving you were threatened inside the home is easier to justify.

In my county if someone enters your home by force, even if unarmed, they are considered a threat and you will not have any issues. Outdoors, in the streets you still have the same rights, but it may take more time and investigating for local police to be convinced you were threatened. Especially if there are few reliable witnesses to back up your side.

Once an intruder leaves, you are not justified in pursuing, even if they are leaving with your property or money. I understand that is justifiable use of force in a few places.
 
Are you automatically going to be arrested?
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No. In the state of OK the police may not arrest a person who has shot another person in a home invasion shooting unless police have probable cause the shooter has broken the law.

Title 21. Crimes and Punishments

Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 53 - Manufacture, Sale, and Wearing of Weapons
Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971
Section 1289.25 - Physical or Deadly Force Against Intruder
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __

.....................................................................................................

G. A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, but the law enforcement agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
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[/QUOTE]

The vast majority of home invasion shootings in OK are not prosecuted. Our former prosecutor declined to prosecute one "stand your ground" killing and two home invasion killings in a 18 month period.

This lady was not prosecuted. LEOs bought her a shotgun to replace the one taken as evidence.

http://newsok.com/blanchard-woman-shoots-kills-intruder/article/3636876
 
dlb435 said:
live in Lousiana; the police practically hand out medals of achievement for shooting home intruders.
I know it's not like that in other states.
Texas; shoot first, questions later.
Massachusetts; you better have six witnesses that swear you had no choice.
Check your state laws and the attitude of law enforcement....
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Do you have any actual evidence to support your preposterous comments?
 
OK City Ok area incident; update....

Do any forum members know of any updates or new details about the small business owner(who claimed to be a active duty USAF veteran) that was convicted for shooting 2 armed teen robbers a few years ago?
It was discussed on gun forums a lot but I'm not sure of the end result.
Did he walk? Was the conviction over-turned? I do not live in OK City so I'm out of that news loop.

ClydeFrog
 
ClydeFrog said:
Do any forum members know of any updates or new details about the small business owner(who claimed to be a active duty USAF veteran) that was convicted for shooting 2 armed teen robbers a few years ago?...
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You could try helping us out with a name.

The only one who comes to mind is Jerome Ersland. He was convicted of first degree murder and is in prison serving a life sentence. I understand he filed an appeal, which is apparently in process. He has also just recently been charged with having contraband in prison.
 
jager.30-06 said:
google castle doctrine. LEO told me keep your attention on the perp, he might get back up. call 911 and keep it short and sweet" someone has been shot, here is my adress, i need police and paramedics here now." hang up the phone. if possible ( if the guy is dead, or ran off) put your weapon down, identify yourself as the resident and comply with all orders. remember to communicate clearly " I was in fear of my life. and that of my family". no, you will not automatically be arrested as long as it wasn't your mother-in-law lol, or someone you have any sort of relation to or with. do not tell the 911 operator "i just killed a guy"..."I blew that fools head off" etc etc. remember you are recorded when you call 911 so don't say anything that could be used against you later...he also said advised me not to watch the guy die then call police, u have the obligation to have help on the way, I can't speak for everyone on this forum but I hope to never have to take a mans life, I will if need be but do not relish the idea like some internet badasses. But if he is still a threat, by all means shoot again!
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I completely agree with you on this one buddy. Thats why I have a .44 Magnum ready to protect my family and home. Usuallt after making contact with a perp with one of those rounds, a followup shot isnt necessaey but if so, that will do the trick.

Whar most people dont understand is that its your obligation to seek medical help for the perp. Even though they would have taken your life, it shouldnt be your intention to take theirs.. even though they deserve it. In todays day and age, using a firearm is a big deal and society will definitely judge you and you must defend yourself. First against the perp and additionally against the legal system designed to punish the good citizen, You!

I agree with calling 911 and letting them know to send ambulance and police and youll wait for them, goodbye. Then call attprney and get advice, or better yet.. call your attorney before it even happens so you already have the advice you need for if and when it does occur. Then if you get taken in, the only call they get is to assist you with the bs.
 
Thanks FE....

Yes, that is the same guy....
He shot a young hold up man(or as the NYPD calls them; stick-up kids :rolleyes: ). I think the convicted felon also shot at another teen who fled his drug store/pharmacy.
To my limited knowledge, the pharmacist/business owner stood over the wounded teen & shot him repeatedly.

ClydeFrog
 
Call 911, then an attorney. He will advise you as to what to say and do.
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Better ask your wife or someone else to call the attorny as the 911 operator will probably keep you on the line until the first responders get there.
 
First, don't shoot anyone unless you have no other way to save your life. When you pull that trigger, you are changing your life forever, too.

Call 911 and report it immediately, then avoid getting shot by the responding officers. Preserve the scene (especially if there are other weapons present), and do what you can to get witnesses to stay or at least obtain contact info.

"It is, what it is": The real world is messy, and the law generally recognizes that. Getting caught in a lie or trying to "spin" the story is worse than having made a mistake, or being in a less than "perfect" scenario. Do not tamper with evidence or attempt to alter anything.

Make a common-sense statement to the authorities (suspect descriptions, what happened in general terms, etc.). After the basic statement, request an attorney be present before more questioning. Expect to go to the police station or even get arrested. Cooperate but don't get drawn into any games (good cop, bad cop, statements to avoid getting arrested, etc.). The detectives are experienced and you are no match for them. They are not your friends, but they are not your enemies, either. Be honest, but keep your mouth shut until you have discussed your case with your lawyer.

Try to get a quick call out to loved ones, and, without going into detail, tell them you've been involved in a shooting, that you're OK, and not to speak to the press. Tell them not to believe everything they hear in the media about the incident.

The rest you'll figure out as you go (statements, depositions, getting sued, etc.).
 
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One thing that has not been mentioned here, is you live the rest of your life with that decision. I hope you think about it a lot beforehand and be sure of how you will handle it. If you need to, I hope you do so without hesitation. Just be sure!
 
I know I need to get an updated book of statutes. Mine is from 2004. You could try and google the statutes here in OK to find out both parts of the stand your ground or castle doctrine.
 
You defend your life
You defend your family
You defend your propery

You get arrested & prosecuted


That is just sad, that it has turned this way in America,
Where criminals have more say & rights than you
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The problem here is that you are assuming the shooter is necessarily the good guy, that the shootee is necessarily the bad guy, and that such information is clearly obvious to law enforcement.

After a crime occurs and law enforcement arrives, they are often faced with a myriad of information, some of it conflicting, some of it potentially evening appearing to be admissions of laws broken by the purported good guy or desbribed by witnesses. Sometimes the story given by the purported good guy doesn't match the evidence.

That the purported good guy gets arrested as has to go through the whole legal process is called "due process."

As noted in OK, you won't necessarily get arrested. I would not count on not getting arrested. In fact, I would go ahead and assume that you will likely be arrested until which time you make bail or the cops figure out that you aren't the bad guy. Hopefully, that will be resolved quickly.
 
Every year the local gun club gets together with the DA, prosecuting and defense attorneys, firearms experts and others and holds a public symposium on the use of lethal force. These events are well attended.

Law enforcement and defense attorneys have a slightly different point of view when it comes to what the shooter should say after the incident. One thing the defense attorney said that the police didn't refute was that there are many people in jail because they spoke without the presence of an attorney.

Since you're innocent until proven guilty, best to say nothing or as little as possible.
 
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