If you had to choose......Golden Saber 124 gr +P or 147 gr non+P

Hornady Critical Duty 135gr JHP +P....

Is it to late to add the new Hornady 135gr JHP +P? The specs/ballistics are very impressive but it has a limited # of real street shootings unlike the Speer Gold Dot or Golden Saber 9x19mm rounds.
I'd also say the bonded Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P JHP looks great for duty/defense roles. It's on sale BTW; www.discountammosales.com .
;)
The Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ JHP is another top LE duty round in 9x19mm. It's for sale at www.SGAmmo.com along with the newer bonded type +P T series Ranger load(another pistol round I'd spend $ for).

ClydeFrog
 
All handguns are defensive weapons that are massively compromised and always weapons of last resort.

Choose whatever HP bullet you like. They're pretty much all the same in real life. Youtube videos of geeks shooting denim covered Jello would argue against this of course.
 
The BFD crowd & the What's the Diff Gang...

I disagree to a point about the "hey, so what" crowd or the BFD remarks.

You don't have to be a "morgue monster" or "Jello Junkie" but if you plan to carry or deploy 9x19mm rounds for concealed carry or duty(armed security, PI, protective service, corrections) then it's important to make a smart pick.

Or at the least a choice you could explain in a formal criminal investigation or civil suit if required.
Use of force incidents don't have Hollywood endings where every point or issue is resolved & no one has any other problems/legal disputes.

CF
 
Originally Posted by secret_agent_man
There appear to be two common semiautomatic handgun rounds of note. The 115 grain +P+ 9mm Illinois State Police load, and the 230 grain .45 Caliber ACP round. Anything in between is just so much useless flotsam swilling around in a toilet bowl full of turds.
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Uh. Nope. Unless that is some excellent satire. Triggers is a fun show though!

.40 Speer Gold Dot 180 grain penetrates more and expands to almost the same diameter as .45 Gold Dot 230 grain
- source: tnoutdoors9, YouTube
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I would also add the the .40S&W is now the most common LEO round in America, right between the typical 9mm and .45acp loads.
 
All handguns are defensive weapons that are massively compromised and always weapons of last resort.

Choose whatever HP bullet you like. They're pretty much all the same in real life. Youtube videos of geeks shooting denim covered Jello would argue against this of course.
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Essentially every expert and LEO disagrees with both of your conclusions. Handguns are the first defense (after avoidance) of most LEOs and they carry 9mm, .40S&W or .45acp rather than, say, the much lighter .380acp because of 100 years of field experience. There is a vast difference in terminal knock-down factors of the various rounds, both in theory and in practice. Consider a .22LR HP v. a large bore magnum JHP -- you can't possibly consider them to deliver equivalent stopping power.
 
ak2323 said:
All handguns are defensive weapons that are massively compromised and always weapons of last resort.

Choose whatever HP bullet you like. They're pretty much all the same in real life. Youtube videos of geeks shooting denim covered Jello would argue against this of course.
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Respectfully, some of those "geeks" like tnoutdoors9 spend a lot of their time and money trying to help the shooting community choose quality products, and a lot of us appreciate it.

Most likely, hollowpoint selection won't make a difference. But it might. And might could mean my life. So I will do extensive research on my carry rounds. To each their own.
 
Use Both.

Carry two 9's. Load 124s in one gun, load 147s in the other. Try using both guns on the BG(s) and let us know what works better. If you're limited to 1 gun then 'Ducth Load' the magazine; 1st rd is a 124, 2nd rd is a 147, 3rd rd is a 124, 4th rd is a 147 ect ect ect...
 
There is a vast difference in terminal knock-down factors
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Oy vey. [resists urge to explain basic physics w/r/t 'knock down'...]

Consider a .22LR HP v. a large bore magnum JHP -- you can't possibly consider them to deliver equivalent stopping power.
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I certainly can. Many professionals in rather unsavory lines of work use small caliber pistols. A .22 deliered to the temple or the base of the skull has 'knock down' power equivalent to .50bmg round.
 
ak2323: said:
Oy vey. [resists urge to explain basic physics w/r/t 'knock down'...]
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Yeah, I gotta resist the urge, too.

The idea that a bullet launched at any realistically attainable velocity can knock a person to the ground merely through its own action violates Newton's Third Law of Motion.

Some people will "get it", some won't. Not much we can do about that.
 
Most likely, hollowpoint selection won't make a difference. But it might. And might could mean my life. So I will do extensive research on my carry rounds. To each their own.
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Amen.

I'll take it a step further though. I have done a bit of informal testing with different bullets. It isn't scientific, but it compares a, b, and c against each other.

The bullet you choose can make a difference. On average I have seen Remington GS get about 40% to 50% more penetration and 12% - 15% more expansion than Hornady Custom. To me that is a big enough difference to make one much more desirable over the other.

Carrying the wrong round can negate the advantages of your chosen caliber. If you're carrying a 9x19 that gets the same result as a 9x17 Speer Gold Dot, what is the point of the larger gun with more recoil?

Ammo choice can ensure that you get the most from the caliber you carry. If you're going to carry a given caliber you might as well maximize the performance. Like Law said, "might could mean my life." So, I might as well get the best I can.
 
@Skadoosh

I don't know what to think of Brass Fetcher's results for the 124gr +P Gold Dots.

My understanding of how the FBI used ordnance gel - they would "calibrate" it with a BB chronographed between 590 and 610 fps that penetrated between 8.3 to 9.5 cm, and if the BB penetration fell outside of that range - they would discard that block of geletin.

But Brass Fetcher's calibration came in at 11.2cm @ 599 ft/sec.

And then he states that the results are "corrected" I'm guessing that he's using Duncan MacPherson's for gauging penetration based on the calibration. I know that it's a common practice.

As you might notice, the bullets all penetrated the length of the gelatin block. This was because the block had lower viscosity than the 'perfect' block. All bullets penetrated the back of the block, two struck the face of a 60lbf bag of play sand and fell to the deck. The actual penetration of these bullets was determined as (16.0-1.7) inch.
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I would rather get a test in properly calibrated gelatin than have a test in insufficiently viscous gel and then have a formula applied to the raw data to give an end result. When I see that the BB velocity was out of spec or the pentration of the BB was out of spec, I see if I can find another test somewhere that didn't require the numbers to be massaged.

Firearms Tactical Institute tested the 124gr +P Gold Dot, but their test had a BB chrono at 588 fps (out of spec) and penetrated 7 cm (out of spec), and their corrected results for bare gelatin were 13.2" 0.62" expansion. In the 4 denim test - 16.1" penetrated and 0.53" expansion. So their corrected results for the 124 +P Gold Dot were two inches deeper than Brass Fetcher's.

But the other thing I wanted to mention is some bullets act completely differently in the 4 denim test.

The Winchester Ranger "T" 127gr +P+ RA9TA behaves relatively the same in bare gelatin, heavy clothing and 4 denim, but the 9mm 124 +P bonded bullet - the RA9BAB goes from penetrating 12.6" in bare gelatin to zipping through to 18+ inches in denim and heavy clothing.
 
It was all laid bare on TRIGGERS during the second show last week when the camera recorded the impact on ballistic gel of a 38 Long Colt versus a 45 ACP. The difference was nothing short of phenomenal. Big, slow, and painful to watch even the gelatin getting hit by the forty-five. It made a believer out of me. I may get one now.
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As also seen on TRIGGERS, scrap the 45ACP and go with the 30-06.
 
Forgive the ignorance as I am still with guns and ammo but what does a Bonded round mean?What are the differences between a Bonded and a None-Bonded round?
Thanks.
 
No problem, Secretariat-

"Bonded" refers to the bullet's core material being (chemically or thermally) fused or physically attached to the bullet's jacket material as means of preventing the core from slipping forward and out of the jacket after expansion occurs.

"Unbonded" are bullets of "cup and core" construction- that is, a copper/gilding metal jacket is struck and extruded into a "cup" and then the lead alloy "core" is mechanically forced into the cup to fabricate the bullet. In bullet's of such construction there is no physical attachment of core material to jacket material leaving the core free to move forward and out of the jacket after impact/expansion. Certain manufacturers have incorporated mechanical locking bands into the design with mixed results.
 
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" I like subsonic ammo so that if I ever have to use it, the damage to my hearing might be a little less."
You're kidding, right?
After doing some personal testing, I'll not be using 147 grain ammo in my carry gun unless it's the only choice. In fact, I don't use +P either-if standard 9mm isn't going to be good enough, I'll use a bigger gun/cartridge.
My tests using water jugs, wet newsprint, and wounded or vehicle injured deer proved to my satisfaction that 124 grain GoldDot bullets will do what I expect a 9mm handgun to do in the most effective manner. My stock of 9mm 147 grain ammo is relegated to carbine use-it really shines in that capacity BTW.
 
Two year old thread on ammo which may not be on the shelf...anywhere
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True, but it was brought back from the dead to ask a very pertinent question, which was answered well. Secretariat asked and surprised many of us.

Who knew a famous racehorse would use the internet? :p

Bart Noir
 
Thanks a lot for all your replies.By the way,someone told me that with the new technology of the 9mm ammo today,they are almost as good as the 40 SW?Is this true?
Thanks again.
 
Secretariat: said:
Thanks a lot for all your replies.By the way,someone told me that with the new technology of the 9mm ammo today,they are almost as good as the 40 SW?Is this true?
Thanks again.
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That's a loaded question. :p (pun very much intended)

Generally speaking, it's a very level playing-field across the range service calibers these days. That is to say, that within any given configuration, they are all about as good, or as bad, as one another.

Many folks looking to caliber as a solution for some perceived issue would be better served by seeking a little more quality training. Here's hoping you find what you are looking for! ;)
 
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