If you don't learn from history...

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MoW

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you are bound to repeat it. There is a very important lesson that some "republicans" on this forum need to keep in mind. Currently, on another thread, there is a poll which asks how you will be voting in the upcoming elections and 2008. As I am writing this, the current status is as follows:
Republican---56
Democratic----8
Other/Won't vote---22

Now the critical number to keep in mind is the 22, which accounts for almost 26%. Going back to the 2000 elections and more specifically Florida---this was the final results and determined Bush as President over Gore(Thank God).;)

The Florida Vote

Republican
2,912,790

Democratic
2,912,253

Green
97,488

Natural Law
2,281

Reform
17,484

Libertarian
16,415

Workers World
1,804

Constitution
1,371

Socialist
622

Socialist Workers
562

Write-in
40

For those of you who vote other or not to vote at all----keep in mind what the end result would have been if 500+ other votes or non voters had voted for Gore. While it is completely in your right, it is also your intellectual responsibility to know the possible outcome to your other vote or non vote. Voting 3rd Part(Green) the way 97,488 other voters did, for somebody who has NO chance of winning could end up costing you more then you know. Sometimes(and this will be again the case in 2008) you must choose between 2 less then desireable candidates and not simply throw your vote away for someone who has no chance. You might as well put your own name down. Again, it is completely within your rights---but please think before you vote about whether or not you are casting a vote that actually counts for something because it might count for the wrong guy too.:(
 
If the Republicans lose to the Democrats because of my itty-bitty vote, then the Democratic victory will be the fault of the Republicans for not attracting enough voters to their platform. It will certainly not be my fault just because I vote my conscience rather than side with the team I think has the best chance of winning.

The only wasted vote is one where you don't vote your convictions. Do with your vote as you please, but don't you dare try to guilt me into voting for your party because "the other guys might win otherwise". If they do, it'll be on your head, not mine. I can't help it that most of our fellow citizens can only be bothered to press the button next to a D or R, but that doesn't entitle you to belittle or dismiss the people who don't want more of the same. Maybe your energy would be better spent convincing your Republican candidates to make themselves more appealing to Libertarians and all the other "wasted vote" parties, so they don't have to be afraid of close elections any more.
 
In a simplistlic way I agree with you Mark. However, life is full of choices and I would rather choose to vote for someone who I can "live with", but don't fully agree rather than vote for someone I know has no chance of winning and risking getting someone in that I don't agree with on anything don't want to "live with" and in general hate as a person, politition and human being in general. (read Clinton)
 
Apparently you didn't pay much attention to the results of the Florida election in 2000 or you are too lazy to care---but if you did you would realize that the itty-bitty vote "could" have and did have a huge say in who won. As I "clearly" said in my thread 2 times---it's your right to vote how you want, but it's your responsibility intellectually to understand the possible results of your vote. Nobody said to "side with the team that has the best chance of winning"---only the team that you would prefer of the 2. You can't like/hate both equally.:rolleyes:
The only wasted vote is one where you don't vote your convictions.
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Nice cliche---not practial in use. It is indeed "wasted" since your vote has/has 0 chance of ANY impact. You seem to either feel guilty, or presume everyone is trying to make you feel guilty about alot of subjects. You are the 1 who has to deal with the fact that a Pelosi becomes Speaker or H. Clinton COULD win because you(general term, not specific you) essentially say, I don't like either so I'm going home.
As an example---not on the same level but you see the point-----if you were in school and you were given 2 options to vote on after narrowing choices.
1. Chicken everyday for 1 month
2. Pizza everyday for 1 month
Now you really don't like chicken, and pizza is ok, but you love tacos. So what happens, you and 10 other students write in tacos---meanwhile chicken ends up beating out pizza by 3 votes. Well besides your vote being completely wasted, you've now also ended up with chicken that you hate. Don't know why you consider it a "guilt" trip by stating the "fact" that only a D or R is going to win whether YOU like it or not------FACT!
 
Let me let you in on a little secret, MoW.

I am so disgusted with the Republican record these last six years that I am no longer convinced a continued Republican majority would truly be the "lesser of two evils". Therefore, if I couldn't vote Libertarian, and I was forced to pick between R and D at gunpoint, I'd vote for the Democrat, hoping that a Dem majority in the House (or a Dem President in the White House) would at least galvanize the so-called Conservatives into getting off their complacent asses, stop crapping on the Constitution, and take a stand for freedom for a change. A little bit of the gridlock and government shutdowns we had under Clinton would be the cherry on the icing of that particular cake for me.

Do you still think I'll be "wasting" my vote if I vote Libertarian?
 
I'd vote for the Democrat, hoping that a Dem majority in the House (or a Dem President in the White House) would at least galvanize the so-called Conservatives into getting off their complacent asses
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Actually the Democrats winning the House would have the complete opposite effect--so you might want to rethink that logic.;)

Do you still think I'll be "wasting" my vote if I vote Libertarian
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Absolutely--if as you say the Democrats are the lesser of 2 evils and that is your belief then by all means since it will be a D or R. Now do I personally hope that you stick to your "guns"(figurative) since I would prefer to keep my "guns"(literal) and not see Hillary----ABSOLUTELY. I'll let you in on a little secret----the best thing that could happen to the Republicans in this upcoming election might be to actually narrowly lose the house and senate in order to set up for 08.

On a side note----you must absolutely just hate being a Libertarian and living in the Bible belt of Tennessee?.:D Looks like Ford is your man.:(
 
I don't consider myself a Republican anymore. The party has left me and many other true conservatives behind while they pursued their "neo-con" agenda. I lean toward libertarianism more and more these days. (And I don't enjoy being called stupid in your sig-line. :( Might want to re-think that.)

Here in Ohio, I have a choice between Sherrod Brown (D) and Mike DeWine (R) for Senator. As you said, MoW, one of them is going to win. Now, DeWine gets an 'F' from the NRA while Brown gets a 'D+'. What is it going to gain me to vote for Brown? I'm still going to get an anti-freedom robot who votes the way that is most politically lucrative.

No, I'm not going to hold my nose again and vote for the lesser of these two evils. They're both evil. I'll vote for George Mays and go home with a clear conscience and not care whether I have to eat pizza or chicken for the next six years. They're both equally poisonous.

-Dave
 
Looks like Ford is your man.
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Nah. I think Ford is a smarmy little punk. Of course, I also think that Corker is a whiny douchebag, the rest of the guys running for U.S. Senate are barking moonbats, and there's no Libertarian on the ballot, so I really don't know yet where I'll make my mark. It depends on whose campaign ads annoy me less by the time November rolls around. Maybe I'll write in my own pick.
 
Now, DeWine gets an 'F' from the NRA while Brown gets a 'D+'. What is it going to gain me to vote for Brown?
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Depends on which party you want to control the House or Senate. IF a Democrat, say Hillary wins in 08 and you value your guns, you probably want the Republicans to control the House and Senate as an over all party.

I'll vote for George Mays and go home with a clear conscience and not care whether I have to eat pizza or chicken for the next six years.
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Somehow I don't really believe that you will not "care" for the next 6 years--especially if like I said you hate 1 of the foods.:rolleyes: Esentially you have simply become a spectator at that point when you "could" have made a difference.
 
MoW...

I understand the point you are getting at and you give a great example with the food thing. The only problem is people feel like you are trying to tell them how to vote (which you aren't) when you are really just trying to inform them that voting for one of the parties that will actually win would be a better choice than voting for the green party or some other party that has no chance of winning. The most logical thing would seem to be vote for the "lesser of two evils" like many of you have already mentioned. I voted for Bush the last time around because I was pretty much 100% sure that I would still have my guns when he left office. I know that because he himself loves guns. All the other "policies and agendas" (Dem. or Rep.) went in one ear and out the other, just like they should have because when it boils down to it, at the end of the day they are still politicians. They are going to tell you whatever you want to hear and when they get it office they are going to do whatever suits them. That's why I vote according to what I KNOW about a certain party or politician. I'm not going to tell anyone else how to vote, but I will say MoW brings up a good point and by no means is he/she trying to tell you how to vote. They are just trying to tell you how you can vote and actually have it count.
 
Quote of the day!!!

"It depends on whose campaign ads annoy me less by the time November rolls around."

Marko


Isn't that the truth. It's like listening to annoying little kids bicker at each other. They are pretty amusing though. I love the ones that are like "So and so voted to take away all medical care coverage from little kids across the country!":rolleyes: Some of the crap they think up is purely entertaining!
 
What people who think partyline politics fail to see...

Is the fact that if everyone stopped voting for the most powerful parties just because they are the lesser of two evils, then the third parties would be able to gain more steam while the stupid Democrats and Republicans end up diminishing in power. "Party of morality" indeed, so why are we not allowing use of stem cells that are going to be disposed of anyway, when there are millions of people who need them? Kinda also brings up the other end of the Democrats saying they are against the death penalty but abortion is okay. Point being if we want real progress in this country people have to stop voting for one evil or the other because it's "the lesser of two evils". How about vote for no evils and pick the one that suits you best?


Epyon
 
OK, let's analyze this:

First, what you say is correct - the 3rd party voters, if most or all of them would have voted republican in florida instead (big if, but we'll make that assumption, arguendo), then the disputed election would not have occured, giving the prez a normal (though close) win, rather than the huge ruckus which required scotus intervention. So, had Dubya had a CLEAR win rather than the disputed win, given that he's abused the power of the prez more than any prez since FDR, the question becomes HOW MUCH MORE would he yet abuse his presidential power if he thinks that instead of a disputed win, he had a "mandate"? I shudder to think. And, gawd forbid, had Algore won that year, then we would have instead had a president who would have promised to sign a renewal of the homeland defense rifle ban. Oh, but wait - that is in fact is in fact the same thing we had when the subject came up in 04 - a president who promised to renew it, if it ever reached his desk. The only thing that saved us was the Congress, who kept it FROM reaching his desk. If you don't vote 3rd party, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution, with some exceptions of course.

www.constitutionparty.org

And a big AMEN to Epyon! The title of the thread is apropros....if we don't learn from history (that voting for the scoundrels in control of the repub party will only lead to their doing more of the same thing, rather than sending a message as to which way the party should go, by voting 3rd party), then we are indeed bound to repeat history.
 
How about this vote for who you want to win. Then spend the next 8 years crying on the internet about who you wanted to win didn't win and that is the reason the sky is falling.
 
Howsabout this:
It is your duty to make an informed decision. Vote for whoever you like (or hate the least), but get out there and do it. The only caveat to this is races where you don't know who and what you're voting for, in which case we're all better off if you just stay home.
Beyond that, each of us have our own rationale that drives our decisions and nobody else is going to change that.
If the Dems win in '08, don't go blaming it on the folks who won't vote for a candidate they don't want. Blame it on the Republicans for fielding a garbage candidate.
 
I am so disgusted with the Republican record these last six years that I am no longer convinced a continued Republican majority would truly be the "lesser of two evils".
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Amen.

IF a Democrat, say Hillary wins in 08 and you value your guns, you probably want the Republicans to control the House and Senate as an over all party.
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A Hillary win in '08 would have little chance of resulting in the loss of your Second Amendment rights had the New Wave Conservatives not worked so hard to emasculate tha Bill of Rights these past 5 years. Personally, the specter of "But the Dems will win if you don't vote Republican" is wearing a bit thin.

What's the big deal about the Republicans gaining control of the government? It's kind of like one crash-test dummy letting the other one drive for awhile.

Jay Leno
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Rich
 
Ya'all vote how you want. Just remember this. Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and the rest of those people can't wait to do for you what the libs did for us here in California.

When it happens, I don't want to hear any whining.
 
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