If you absolutely have to open carry...

M

Mark Milton

Moderator
In general I don't advise anybody to open carry because it presents problems.

The main problem being that you will be harrassed by your fellow citizens and some naive younger folk in law enforcement.

I have seen many guys who open carried who got arrested by rookies for "brandishing a weapon" and even though the charges were later dropped in Magistrate Court or District Court who wants that to linger on their record during a background check? Who wants to be aggravated with being hauled into court in the first place if you can avoid it.

Now some will tell you open carry is a bad idea because it lets the bad guys know you are armed. I don' t think that's much of a problem because in reality bad guys are cowards and they are more apt to leave you alone than try to blindside you. I am in the courthouse every week and I see bad guys and cops and the thing that I keep hearing over and over in their cases is that they were not looking for a challenge or a fight, just an easy score.

So, if you are hellbound and determined to open carry, here are two options to think about.
In my county, most of the younger cops (younger than me, LOL..) in their 40s and under tend to wear crew cuts or "high and tight" haircuts and they tend to open carry when out of uniform and off duty.
One of my buddies does this and I see him often at a local pizza place.
I see other off duty officers in my county out of uniform too.
So if I was gonna open carry, I would get that same "high and tight" or crew cut hair style and carry the same gun (Glock) in the same paddle rig as they do to sort of camoflauge myself to the McSheeple, who would think, "Oh, its just another cop in town."
Now, I am NOT advising you to pretend to be a cop beause that is against the law. But if you have a cop hair cut, dress like an off duty out of uniform cop and have a cop gun in a cop holster and the waitress at the pizza joint and customers mistakenly THINK you are a cop and they ignore you and don't dial 911, then that's not your fault is it?
You might even go to a pawn shop and get one of those cheezy "concealed carry permit" badges to clip on the side of your belt where it will be under your wrist and nobody can read the words on it to further "camoflauge" yourself....

Now, even though I have a bad haircut like that, and wear a fishing vest that people assume is a tactical vest (tactical is what you do, not what you buy), that is not for me.

I will stick with concealed carry thank you.

However, I recently saw another aproach that looked pretty good, or at least inconspicuous.
Not long ago I saw an ATV er who had a Browning Hi Power in a camo finish in a camo holster on his camo pants. If you weren't paying close attention, you would have ignored it. At first, I thought it was a GPS pouch or something. (It had a flap on the holster).
Now Camo guns are rare ,but inthe past I have seen camo Colt revolvers and .45 autos.
That might be a good tactic.

Of course the only open carry I ever was tempted to try was wearing a single action thumbbuster in a western rig. People just think you are into cowboy stuff.

Open carry is not for me, and it is not for many people. But if you have to do it, these are some tactics to think about.
For what it is worth, I do know people who open carry and I have a lot of respect for them, becuase of the crap they have to put up with...
 
When I am hunting/camping I often open carry to and from. I occasional OC if I get a new holster or something and just wants to see how it feels[ed. "fits" might be a better word]. No one has ever bothered me.

I general say sir/mam, open doors, etc. and I usually am not dressed too poorly. Some people probably think i am off duty LEO, but I am certain some do not. Like most things if you appear confident most people assume you are supposed to be doing whatever it is you are doing.

I am not sure disguising yourself as an off duty LEO is such a great idea. I would prefer no one at my local sheriff or police department think I am trying to look like them. Like Marines and SF, but to a lesser degree,I assume they would not take too kindly to a grown person doing so. I would not in their situation. If I was 8 years old OCing an orange barreled cap gun with a plastic sheriffs badge on the other hand...
 
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I guess it depends on where you live and the culture. Where I live, we open carry a lot. Coming back from shooting and stopping in the Mini-Mart or Safeway. We don't leave it in the car. Then again, we still drive around in some towns with rifles in a rifle rack to and from herding cattle. We don't open carry to look cool; we open carry because we're going from point A to point B and we happen to have a gun on us.
 
This is as good a place as any to ask this question: how does a handgun carried in a flapped holster, one that completely covers the handgun, fit into the open carry/concealed carry definition? I am referring here to a holster that actually looks like a holster, like a WWII army holster, like one for a P38.

And another thing, I don't care for the use of the word "sheeple" anywhere. Are you aware of how sheep like to butt heads?
 
There is NO DOUBT that the culture in rural Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota is entirely different from most of what the rest of the nation knows about being out & about. If you disagree, you've never been there.

That said, open carry in the rest of the country, in suburbs and large cities and normal midwest places, it's not something that I would ever likely want to do.

When carrying concealed, the fact that "bad guy" doesn't know you are armed is so very much to your advantage. A bad guy that starts something with an obviously armed man is REALLY looking to do harm and is prepared to deal with a gun. That's probably one of the last guys you'll ever want to go up against.

In my opinion, I fully support the right to open carry for a couple of reasons. One is that the more guns that are out and noticeable, the better it is for our cause. Folks see them, they maybe became a LITTLE less than a piece of Hollywood or the 11 o'clock news.

The other reason I support it is so that it's completely legal if somehow, someway, I find myself accidentally showing my concealed weapon if my shirt blows up or whatever. There are places (Florida comes to mind) where your carry gun MUST stay concealed or you are breaking the law. I don't care for that at all.

But for me? Open carry when I'm in the sticks, especially when I'm working outdoors or shooting. But that's pretty much it.
 
If SC had open carry, I would - for several reasons.

1. It's easier. OC holsters are generally more comfortable and you don't have to worry about accidentally flashing. You have more clothing options, too.
2. As has been said, criminals are looking for an easy mark. The only good gunfight is one that doesn't happen. If seeing my weapon marks me as a "hard target" and causes the BG to go elsewhere, then that's a big +1. Prevention is always better than surprise.
3. I can generally carry a larger weapon with more rounds. If the mess does hit the fan, I'm better armed.

Attempting to imitate a LEO is generally a very bad idea. The only people you'll fool is the general public who may actually look to you for help that you can not legally render.

In that same vein, the "Concealed Carry" badge is probably the single WORST idea to ever come down the road. It's not impersonation, but it's so very close that problems may easily arise, including the one I mentioned above - someone looking to you for help you can't provide. You may find yourself in court trying to defend carrying a badge. All it takes is one person saying, "I thought he was a LEO - he had a badge."

If I'm behaving normally, I don't expect to be harassed by LEOs. If one does question my weapon, a simple radio call to a superior (who knows the law) will set things straight quickly. After all, it's the LEO's job to determine if I'm a threat.

NC is an OC state. When I lived there (for 5 years), I OCed constantly - into all types of stores and businesses. I was never questioned or challenged. I didn't call attention to my weapon and neither did anyone else.

It's an individual choice - concealed or open. If you don't want to OC, that's your decision, but don't tell everyone else how to do it.
 
Mark Milton,

Although I probably shouldn't, I find most of your post a bit offensive, even if it's intended to be given as advice.

For one, have you ever open carried in public? If not, then giving advice seems a bit out of place.

Second. where are you from? Open carry is pretty well accepted in many areas. Making a statement like:

The main problem being that you will be harrassed by your fellow citizens and some naive younger folk in law enforcement.
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seems a bit out of place to me. In some areas, you'll no doubt be harrassed. In others, you won't. In Arizona, open carry is pretty well accepted. CCW is "shall issue" here, but you don't need a permit at all to carry openly.

Now, I've been carrying mostly openly for most of my life. I've open carried in grocery stores, hardware stores, insurance businesses, and just about anywhere you can imagine where carry is legal (which is most places here). I've carried concealed in those same places (yes, I keep a valid CCW permit), and also into banks and such.

Before CCW was even legal here, I open carried, and usually had an additional firearm in the glove box of my truck. NEVER, not even once in my life, have I ever been harrassed by either citizens OR LEO's. I think that maybe that means something, given the fact that I've open carried pretty frequently since I was a teen ager back in the early 1980's.

Are there places and situations where a person shouldn't open carry? Absolutely! If you're east of the Mississippi, chances are you're in such a place. Going into a bank? I suggest concealed carry.

Now, lest you think that open carry is just a way of showing off; it isn't. I wear a handgun pretty much always these days. I holster it when I get dressed in the morning; much like I carry a cell phone, Leatherman tool, and my vehicle keys. If I was "showing off", I'd probably carry one of the larger, flashier handguns that I have, but that's not the purpose. I carry a well worn J-frame because it's easy to carry and light on my belt.

In encounters with LEO's (I.E. I get pulled over), they usually ask for my firearm, run the SN as part of STOP (standard operating procedure), and then they give it back without harrassment. The exception that comes to mind was one young Az DPS officer who asked if I had any more firearms in the vehicle other than the rifle he could see. I said yes, that there was a handgun somewhere on the seat; probably under my jacket. He simply asked me to get out of the vehicle and stand behind it for the remainder of the stop. I was returning from a hunting trip with a friend, was tired as all get-out, and had been following a bit close.

But there was nothing I'd consider harrassment, and he gave me a verbal warning before we each went our own way.

If you doubt what I say, then come to SE Arizona some time. Come to Sierra Vista, and stop by Fry's, Ace Hardware, Safeway, Lowe's, and Home Depot. Be sure to open carry, and see if anyone even gives you a second glance.

They most likely won't as long as your shirt isn't on inside out or some such.

Daryl
 
I agree with the OP and others who recommend that you dress "not poorly."
Several months ago I was waiting in the parking lot for my wife who was in the supermarket. A man got out of his car and walked in front of mine. He was neatly dressed, white shirt, tie, and a holster at two o'clock with a revolver in it. I thought nothing of it, and as he passed I saw the badge clipped on the belt behind the holster. When my wife came out, she said "there was a man wearing a gun in the store." I said, "Yep." Nothing more said about it.

OP is permitted in my state (subject to local ordinances) and carry in cars is permitted as long as the firearm is in plain sight, with the condition that if being in a holster enough of the firearm is visible to be identified as a firearm. Going by that, the question about the flap holster asked by one of the posters, in my state the flap would have to be folded back to be legal showing the grip of the gun.

I think if you OC, the fact that the gun is in a holster alleviates doubts in most of the observers. Once in northern Honduras my son and I were stopped at a check point and ordered out of the truck. The officer was in uniform and armed but his companion was wearing a dirty white shirt and black slacks with a revolver shoved into his right hand pants pocket, only the grip (S&W?) showing. This will give you a mixture of emotions.
 
Here in Indiana, open carry is legal (our LTCH makes no distinction between open and concealed carry) but is typically discouraged. I don't really find it prudent to OC for a variety of reasons. First, Illinois with no carry at all is right next door. Situation number one: I encounter someone from Illinois and alarm them, said alarmed person calls the police about "some guy with a GUN!!!!!" and the police are obligated to respond. Did I do anything illegal? No. Is this a situation that I would prefer to avoid? You bet. Secondly, I don't want just everyone to see that I'm carrying a gun and what type I'm carrying. Situation number two: I have a disagreement with some loudmouthed blowhard about a parking space at Wal-Mart. Said loudmouth decides he's going to kick my you-know-what but upon seeing the gun on my hip as I get out of my car, decides otherwise. Since he's a coward that wants to cause trouble for me but doesn't want to do it directly, he calls the police and says I threatened him with a firearm and then proceeds to describe the gun on my hip down to a tee. While I've done nothing illegal, it still makes for a bit of a sticky situation.

That being said, I am glad that OC is legal because should my CCW accidentally be exposed, I'm still legal.
 
Methinks some folks make WAY to much of open carry. A firearm is a tool, no more, no less, and no better or worse than the person carrying it.

I will agree about not looking like a dirt bag; I think folks should look halfway decent in public, no matter whether they're carrying or not.

But, I spend way too much time in the outdoors to wear white shirts and/or a tie, unless I'm going to church (where firearms are prohibited by state law). Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill; OC really isn't that big of a deal, and after nearly 30 years of it, I really don't give it too much thought..

Here's a quick pic my wife took about a year ago while I was helping her with a project here at home (yes, I carry at home, too). I'm wearing the same holster/belt/revolver today, It's just a tool that's there in case I need it; if I don't, then it's of little or no consequence.

Daryl

coopbuilding.jpg
 
I guess it depends on where you live and the culture. Where I live, we open carry a lot. Coming back from shooting and stopping in the Mini-Mart or Safeway. We don't leave it in the car. Then again, we still drive around in some towns with rifles in a rifle rack to and from herding cattle. We don't open carry to look cool; we open carry because we're going from point A to point B and we happen to have a gun on us.
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That's absolutely true. I however live in a place where open carry would attract a great deal of negative attention. Handgun instructors strongly discourage open carry, because it's generally accepted that even though open carry is quite legal here, you will still get arrested, if only to stop the 9-1-1 calls they get about a guy walking around with a gun. Of course since it's legal to open carry, you'll eventually be released and all, it would still ruin your day. I have never seen anyone here openly carrying gun at all, in recent memory, ever, other than LEO's or others whose job it is involves carrying a gun. It's not that way across the whole state of course. Drive 200 miles to the east, and the story changes.
 
Without going into things too much, I will say that while I certainly have no problems with others who choose to OC, I personally would not.

Yes, if a potential threat "sees" your weapon they may be less apt to cause problems anywhere near you. However, there is a flipside to that coin. In seeing your weapon, this individual may consider you a "mark" for whatever reason...not a good thing (particularly if this is a "career" criminal who knows what he is doing). In essence, it may be unwise to make the assumption that everyone who sees your weapon is going to be intimidated by it (or you) in the least.

As more food for thought - Personally, if I were hell-bent on commiting a violent crime in a populated area, any individual I see who is obviously armed would be one of the first to be "dealt" with (ie., shot). Just something to consider....

Regardless, I just think OC may invite too much unwanted attention unless you are wearing an LE uniform.

Now, if you do OC may I suggest (if you dont already) to make certain you are using a holster utilizing a solid retention system, such as those offered by Safariland, Blackhawk, etc. If you want to show it, make absolutely certain you will keep it!
 
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Daryl, thanks for taking the time to say what I was about to impart to this thread. I find it interesting that people that oppose OC are usually from states that are hostile to gun rights. The second observation is that if #1 is not true, then people that oppose open carry are not from a state where it is permissible.

People get accustomed to all kinds of stuff through osmosis. Just look at how people live in some places of the country where they're categorically denied the right to self defense. Chicago, LA, NYC, Baltimore, etc. After a while there seems nothing out of place with being completely defenseless. I see the strong opinions of openly carried firearms similarly.

I'll tell you what. Try it sometimes and see how much nicer it is to not have to dress around your gun and how many more options are open to you to find comfort in inhospitable weather. Then perhaps you may appreciate why people open carry.
 
I'll tell you what. Try it sometimes and see how much nicer it is to not have to dress around your gun and how many more options are open to you to find comfort in inhospitable weather. Then perhaps you may appreciate why people open carry.
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I certainly understand and appreciate your views. Once again, I have no problem with those who OC. But, just because you CAN do something does not always mean its the most prudent thing to do.

See my last post (#12) for my thoughts concerning OC (which deals with, I think, points many just dont consider as much as they should).
 
First off, considering the effectiveness of the weapon retention strength of your carry holster IS using whats between the ears. To not consider this an issue is clearly demonstrative of not thinking far enough ahead and/or making far too many dangerous assumptions. Plus, unless you are surrounded by a bubble, you will always have individuals near you; certainly near enough to go for that weapon of yours. In addition, Im sure most people who carry (CC or OC) are not trained in the art of hand to hand combat, whether against a knife, blunt object, another handgun, etc.
 
Roger that InSight. I actually had another poster in mind when I made that last comment.
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..oops. Then disregard my last comment(s) to you. However, I will keep the previous post "as is" just for those who may use such an argument. :)
 
the only open carry I ever was tempted to try was wearing a single action thumbbuster in a western rig
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So, You don't OC, have only been "tempted" to try it, and yet you offer several suggestions as to how it should be done, and chastise those of us that do?

Like many others here, I OC quite a bit, and have yet in the last 25 years to be harassed by LE, or even questioned about it by anyone. I normally dress in jeans and either a Tee or polo. and do not call undue attention to myself. OC is only a big deal if you make it one.
 
-Sigh- Open Carry is not all about being harrassed or stared at. At the end of the day, who really cares about what others think? Not me....

Rather, its about "making yourself a mark" in terms of those who notice your exposed weapon. In other words, any criminally minded individual (and yes..many of these individuals are smart) could either a). given the chance, go for your weapon or b.) should he/she/they decide to commit a violent act in your presence, would probably focus on YOU first as you are obviously armed. This list goes on and on.....

Another scenario: You are pulled over by LE...which do you think would be more likely to invite the potential/preparation of possible violence (ie., the drawing of weapons)?: a.) an openly visible weapon or b.) a concealed one. Would a "career criminal" act any differently? Im not willing to bet my life, or those around me, that they would. Now sure, you could explain things away to an LEO, but a criminal probably wouldnt care about such explanations.

Im not saying that OC is bad, but I am saying that some poor assumptions are being made when considering such an option. As I stated before, just because you can do something, it does not always make it prudent to do so. Is this "all inclusive?" Probably not. Sometimes OC is a good thing, sometimes it is not such a great idea (vs. CC). Personally, I think people should be much more concerned about those who are not intimidated by the sight of a weapon vs. those who are.

Like anything else, its best to consider all the angles before "putting all eggs in one basket," so to speak. Kinda like those who believe lasers and the "clack-clack" of the shotgun will intimidate someone into submission. Sure, sometimes this can and does work. But, can these methods truly be relied on to stave off those who "just dont care?" To make assumptions here is far too dangerous and potentialy deadly, IMHO.

The rattlesnake gives off fair warning prior to a strike. Generally, this works... But, for someone who is determined enough and/or is expecting this, it doesnt. The end result? One dead snake.
 
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