If 1911's are so great,them how come.......

I have seen quite a few 1911 types from different manufacturers that came out of the box working great.

I have heard of quality production 1911's that don't work out of the box, but I have also heard of Glocks that don't work but I have never seen one. The way I see it, the i-net is a big place, and there are a lot of guns out there. Someone out there is going to get a lemon and we are going to hear about it.


I have seen one really nice Colt that had a lot of problems...but they really began once the owner started putting on aftermarket parts. And once I bought it from him for a good price, and CLEANED it, it has not malfunctioned once for me.

You can buy most basic 1911 models and they will work well.

The thing is: most 1911 afficionados are PICKY. They WANT to fix up the gun. They want to make it more accurate. They cannot handle little things like MIM parts in their gun, even if they work.

For instance, on my Glocks, I have tons of MIM parts and such, but who cares, it works, right? I don't have any desire to make my Glock more accurate, because I don't want to mess with something that works. The trigger on my Glock is kind of crunchy, buy I don't care so much.
A 1911 owner COULD for example stick with the basic trigger job he got out of the box, but he WANTS to spend the money for a really fine trigger, so he does. I could spend money on a trigger job for my Glock too, but I have no interest.

1911 afficionados will often buy a perfectly good gun and improve on it. It ain't broke, but they want to improve it.
You can get a Kimber and %99 of the time it will work great out of the box. But, if you want to get picky you can start improving it. Put in forged steel parts (even though the MIM parts were working just fine), get it coated, add grip stippling, and on and on it goes. Pretty soon you dumped $1000 into it to get what you want. But, you did not HAVE to.
I could dump $1000 into my Glock too, with custom barrels, grip reductions, trigger jobs, night sights, recoil systems etc. But, I don't HAVE to, in order to get it to do its job.

There are occasional lemons in all guns, and there are some manufacturers that screw up the 1911 pattern, but if you buy from a good company, you should have an excellent gun out of the box.

For instance, in the store near me I can get a Glock .45 with night sights for a fair bit over $600 or I can get a really nice Kimber Pro CDP from the custom shop with night sights for under $750. They both will work great out of the box. And, even as a Glock fan, I would argue that you get a whole lot more value of a gun in the Kimber. (I kindof compared apples to oranges there, a basic Glock to a custom Kimber, but those are the two I happened to be looking at. A basic Kimber would likely cost you the same or less than the Glock and unless you got a very rare lemon from either company, they both would be reliable.)
 
I've owned a half dozen 1911's over the years and they've all worked perfectly out of the box.

The deal with upgrading a 1911 is simply that Browning designed the gun to be "modular". Since you CAN disassemble it with just a few simple tools, it's irresistable to a lot of people to play around with it. You can change the grip angle with an aftermarket part. You can choose a long or short trigger. Change the hammer style, the sights, the grips, the slide release, etc, etc, etc.
You can't do that with most other guns and so you don't see the same number of aftermarket "improvements" offered.

I won't even argue about which mods are improvements and which ones are just silly - it doesn't really matter. If you like to tinker you can personalize your gun according to your own tastes.
Gunsmiths also find this a lucrative field and will make varous "improvements" as long as you keep writing the checks. If you're not a competition shooter, there's probably nothing a gunsmith can really do for you.

But the gun is really fine out of the box. Any 1911 ever made will hit a target the size of a mans chest at 50 yards every time. If it doesn't work out of the box it's probably due to a bad magazine. The gun is so simple there isn't much that CAN go wrong. If there is a problem it's probably a major one - badly fitted slide/frame, big burrs or tool marks - something really sloppy.
Buy a Kimber or Springfield or other quality gun and the odds are 1000 to 1 that you won't have ANY problem.
 
Most of the modifications to 1911's are owner preference, and are not required for normal function. I just got a LW Commander back from the 'smith, and it is refinished (appearance; the gun is 29 years old), and has a long trigger (I have big hands) and an aftermarket thumb safety ( personal preference).

It was very accurate and reliable before and after the modifications.

A lot of add-ons for these pistols are available. That doesn't mean they're necessary.
 
Tropical Z, there are zero, zilch, nada problems with the design of the 1911. There can be problems with manufacturing tolerances and the quality of the workmanship.

Since my newest Colt is an early Delta Elite, I dunno what's going on nowadays. I don't even know how many 1911s I've owned, but I've never had a problem attributable to either the design or the workmanship.


But since they're so easy to work on, and I love to meddle and tweak with stuff: Hey, guess what? :)

As usual, Art
 
Series 70 MKIV. Feeds everything, goes bang everytime. Stovepipe less than 1 per 500, only if I get it real dirty. Original everything including mag and recoil springs as it came off the shelf to my father in '69. I fired about 4500 through it last year and it still looks and acts new. Here's hoping those Glocks are going strong in 30 years.
 
The 1911 myth

If you've got a modern 1911 pistol that has been throated to accept hollowpoint ammo, it SHOULD work right out of the box. The reason you've got so many wonderful 1911 'smiths out there is because they transform 1911's into functional works of art. I own Glock, Sig, HK, etc., etc., but haven't been buying any of those plastic wonderpistols lately because I have become a 1911aholic. These are great pistols, and once you are COMFORTABLE with Cond 1 carry, many would say the best pistol available, bar none. My most recent acquisition, a Baer Stinger, shoots 2" groups at 20 yards all day. It is more reliable than any of my Glocks (this gun has never had a malfunction). And it's pure art. Hate to put the pretty little thing in a holster--but I do :). Guess it all boils down to the fact that I can shoot a 1911 better than any other pistol I own. That might explain why I've got two more custom pistols in the pipeline from Vickers and Burns. These guns aren't for a collection, they're for shooting. They are for IDPA fun and defending my life. If you've never shot a fine 1911 then you don't know what your missing.
 
I spent about $700 dollars on a Stainless Kimber Ultra Carry. No extra work was done to it and it functions 100% with every factory round I've shot threw it. There isn't any Glock that will do better (unless somebody can prove their's is 101% reliable). The most important part is I clean my gun after every shooting session, those who say that their Glocks don't need to be cleaned to be functional are foolish and lazy.
 
I think i'd rather have another mil-spec Colt 1911a1, or even 1991a1 than most other new pistols.

Yes 1911 owners inevitably become customizers, and in doing so sometimes create finicky guns. Once you figure out how to clean and lube a 1911 it should work like a charm, after all it served this country for 80 years (last one I saw in service was on a marine OD returning from desert storm) Thats a pretty good track record.

I prefer the series 80 firing pin block, but its still a good gun. Never had a problem carrying cocked and locked. its easy to learn to drop the safty as you draw, just leave your thumb on the safety, dont put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
 
I think a good analogy is a car (I know that is almost sacrilegious but it does make my point *grin*). I have a friend that owns a great jeep for 4 wheeling, but he is always putting it in the shop for this adjustment or this enhancement. Not because the original wasn't fantastic, but a vehicle like that almost calls to you to keep adding to it. When he first got it there wasn't much that little jeep wouldn't do, and now there IS nothing that little jeep can't do. I own a colt and for about 4 years it was great right out of the box. I did nothing to it. It fed everything, kept great groups, and was to shoot. However, it has been calling for a set of night sights and a few other enhancements. I have got some things done to it and I have no doubt that I will keep on adding and improving as time goes by. Just like customizing a car.
 
Well, here's my take on the 1911:

It is a design that is almost 100 years old. It was designed as state of the art when automobiles were still novelties. It was, however designed to work and had its controls positioned in almost the ideal places. In the time since then, everyone and their mother have cooked up modifications to the design. Some work, such as beaver tails, extended thumb safties, and high profile sights. Some didn't, like the collet bushing, but everyone wanted the latest and greatest in their gun. The gun was made to run 230 grain hardball, not semi-wadcutters or hollow points. But, the design is flexible enough to accomadate these bullets with slight modifications. The trigger mechanism allows a great pull. The design is probably the most flexible out there. It can be adapted to a 27+ round 38 super race gun, to a 3" barreled hideout. Yes the gun migght need work, but everyone that shoots my customized Kimber comments it is worth the effort. I used to be a Glock fan, but destroyed two of them shooting factory ammo, and decided they were not for me. I now carry a full sized 1911 recontoured to my hand, with a good trigger and a slight throating modification.
 
I've got a Kimber Gold Match. Right out of the box it jammed twice in the first two hundred rounds. Then I cleaned and lubricated it. (When I said right out of the box I mean RIGHT out of the box). A couple of weeks ago I fired five hundred rounds straight without a malfunction. Then I was out in the sand on the range doing some shoot and move drills. Dropped my magazines in the sand and then reloaded them. I had a jam on the last round and when I cleared it the slide wouldn't lock back...a bit of sand was jamming the magazine follower. Then I decided it had been too long since I practiced malfunction clearance so I loaded a magazine with a couple of empty cases to force a failure to feed. No failures to feed occurred...the Kimber feeds empty cases-right from the factory.
 
The .45 can knock a man off his feet? Gee, I heard that the .45 could hit a man in the head at 100 yards and make him do a flip! Bunk! All of it. Richard Davis had a demonstration he used to do for his vests. He shot himself with a .44 magnum. Didn't knock himself down. There's another documented demo where a man wearing a Threat Level III (IV?) vest was shot with a FAL at a few yards to prove that knockdown power doesn't exist. Wasn't knocked down either.

The .45 does have design problems. The link isn't that great of an idea, as demonstrated by Browning's jettisoning it on his next design, the Hi-Power (yes, I know he didn't finish the prototype, the guy at FN did.) The plunger tube isn't that smart of a concept (also eliminated on the Hi Power I believe). But all in all, the design has stood the test of time VERY well. I've got an Ultra Carry that likes everything but 185 grain Samson target loads. Of course, I haven't found anything that likes those. They even jammed a Glock!

Modifications to the 1911 used to be necessary to overcome defects in both production and design (i.e. shoddy workmanship, lack of QC, bad sights, safety that wouldn't engage in all hands). The manufacturers have caught up so the smiths mainly smooth things over, turn them into works of art and, most importantly, turn them into YOUR gun. We all have fantasies about designing our own guns. With the 1911, we get the chance to make them come true. Want a polymer double action linkless carry 1911? You can order it. Want a single stack 10 mm 5 inch beauty with intergral comp? Ask Mark Morris ($3695 plus the cost of the Delta Elite). Just want a different finish and an action job. You can have it. The 1911 design is such that it can be turned into what YOU want (assuming you want a single action, of course).
 
Buzz, now you can even get a DAO 1911 though (Para LDA). The wonders of Mr Brownings design never cease.....
 
...I have never heard of a 1911 model pistol that would not realiably feed, fire and eject 230 fmj's...
Click to expand...

Then you have never heard of my Colt .45ACP Jammamatic. Purchased new, it was an unreliable POS from Day 1. Different brands of hardball, different magazines (all GI or COLT!), a couple of trips to Colt for their laughable "warranty service" and...it was always a small miracle if it only jammed ONCE per magazine.

So I found out first hand that unreliable, name brand 1911 pistols do exist. (And I really, really doubt that I got the ONLY unreliable 1911 that Colt ever built.)

My Les Baer Premier II, on the other hand, has a couple of thousand rounds through it with ZERO malfunctions of ANY type, so they can be made reliable.
 
Sorry, but I never heard of ANY handgun round that would knock a man off his feet. I'd be afraid to shoot one.

I don't know where this comes from, but I hear it all the time. Exagerrations about .45 stopping power are endless. It's a great round, but I'm still not sure they'll knock a pumpkin off a stump, as is widely reported.
 
You can knock a guy off his feet with a spit wad from a pea shooter if ya hit em just right and he is standing on the railing of the balcony in the auditorium; did it in high school. :)

I've had at least 20 1911s over the yrs from my first, a series 70 Colt Combat Commander to the last, a Kimber Custom Classic Stainless. A Clark Custom, two SA TRPs, and mucho Colts series 80s, SA loaded models, Kimbers in between. Was issued M1911A1s in the military.

Some damn good shooters in there, but not one of them was as reliable or trouble free as the Berettas and SIGs I was issued, or the Berettas, SIGS, Glocks, Rugers, HKs, BHPs, CZs I have owned. The FBIs super-duper SA SWAT guns passed their T&E, but still scored less reliable than the Glock 40s they issue, or the M9/M11s the military issues.

More than good enough to bet your life on fa shure. Plenty of very good people still do, and many more will for a long time to come.

A fun gun, but not my first choice as a defensive tool. YMMV. :)
 
Heck, I have a Colt series 80 Officers Model and a full size Auto Ordnance both of which have given me excellent service from day one. Jim Hall
 
I've owned many 1911's over the years. I can't think of a single one that didn't have feed problems. That's not the kind of problems I want in a defensive pistol. For some odd reason,I still love the 1911. I fired my Springfield today
and had 2 failures to feed out of 50 rds. I also fired my G19 today and had 0 malfunctions out of 100 rds. Should be a clear choice,huh? I keep hanging on to this old warhorse,
but only for plinking. It has been my experience that the Glocks are more reliable. Sigs and Berettas too. Oh yeah,
Rugers too.
 
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