If 1911's are so great,them how come.......

T

Tropical Z

New member
I've been toying with the idea of getting some brand of 1911 for some time now.Unfortunately all i read about is that if you spend less than $1000.00 on one you might as well head straight to your friendly gunsmith and have it rebuilt upon receipt.I know it's a timeless design,but why does it have so many problems? The 1911 should be perfected by now regardless of whether you purchase a Wilson or a Firestorm! :)
 
1911

Try Springfield "loaded" package or Para "limited" models; both sell for well under a 1000.00$ are reliable from the box.

I own a Para P-14 "limited" [45acp] and only problem i have experianced was rear sights came loose.

FRom what i've read at TFL Springfield armory 1911 are excellent and reliable box stock.

12-34hom.
 
Like the previous poster mentioned, get a Springfield Loaded model. They are a great gun for the money. Right now I am shooting a Charles Daly FS model, and have had no problems with it. This gun has close to 700 rounds of ball and Hydrashok ammo thru it. The only thing I have changed is the recoil spring, I put in a Wilson Combat 18.5# spring. I realize there are a lot of people out there who have had problems with the Daly's but I have spoken with a fair number of people who have had the same experiences that I have had with them.
 
The 1911 design has been "perfected" about as much as it'll ever be. That's why companies like Wilson thrive. They're "perfected" by spending a couple of thousand dollars on a pistol that ought to work out of the box, were the design "perfected".
 
It ain't just 1911's. They can all have their problems.
The 1911 has been around much longer than most.
I know people who just have to have the latest and greatest of everything. I personally admire the design of the 1911.
That is mostly what I own too.

It is as unfair to judge the design as a whole. If you want perfection buy a ground up custom from one of the big names pistol smiths. Just don't be surprised after you paid the bill it still is not perfect.



I got caught up in the GUN mag thing along time ago. I thought they would be a good way to learn. After a while I realized they were more a source of entertainment than education. I spent LOTS-O-Dollars improving upon an already
proven design. I have never heard of a 1911 model pistol that would not realiably feed, fire and eject 230 fmj's. Just remember the pistol must be reasonably well maintained. My above statement includes factory magazines.
You must remember that the 1911 was originally designed to operate with 230 round nose fmj's. Not the latest new fangled "gator mouth " holler point, semi wad cutter, wad cutter or anything else in between.
All of my unmodified series 80 Colts and Kimbers feed almost evertything you can imagine within reason.
People can and will find fault with anything. They say it has to feed 500 of their favorite hollow points before they trust it to carry. The amusing part is some of these experts drive up and down the roads in a real pile-o-crap car or truck, or better yet a motor cycle.

These people tend to forget that any mechanical device is subject to failure. This includes guns.

It all boils down to confidence. I like and trust all of my 1911's. I also know what to feed them. I have some that digest damn near anything. I also have others that I trust only with hardball. I could modify them all but why? That is ok with me. Hardball will do the trick. I use them for fun shooters. I depend on the vast majority that I now trust.

I change the oil in my truck every 3,000 miles like the manual suggests. I also maintain it otherwise.
I use the same thinking with all of my guns too.


IMO buy a name brand that you trust and shoot the hell out of it with every loading possible. Form your own opinions.
It is your confidence that is important as well as your butt.

Dont' get me wrong here fellas. I do value other more experienced shooters opinions and advice. I just don't beleive everything I read or hear.

I am almost 40 now and I am not as impressionable as I used to be.

I wish I still had the all of the money I spent on custom guns. I don't have the appreciation for them that I once had. I don't feel the need to impress everybody else anymore. My $0.20 worth. good day...
 
Part of the problem with the 1911 is about two hundred different manufacturers building variants of the 1911 or parts for the 1911 and every one of them using different tolerances and standards when putting it together.

I think the Glock is the pinnacle of reliability and durability in modern pistols; but I bet you would see some pretty sad stories on them with that many manufacturers making copies and parts for them.

For that matter - I have one friend who has had three Glocks returned to the factory with just the one manufacturer. You start producing several million pistols and you are going to see some lemons, regardless.
 
Tropical Z,

With respect, I take exception to your statement "Unfortunately all I read about is that if you spend less than $1000.00 on one you might as well head straight to your friendly gunsmith and have it rebuilt upon receipt".

I really like the .45 ACP round; therefore I own six full-sized .45 pistols: a pre-WWII Colt Government, a stainless Kimber Custom/Classic, a stainless Springfield "loaded", a Sig P-220, an H&K USP Tactical, and a Glock 21. Please note that the first three autoloaders are 1911A1 "types".

While all six semiautomatics are excellent handguns, I have experienced the greatest accuracy -- with no reliability or durability problems -- with the 1911A1s. Perhaps this is due to their SA design, but the fact is -- in my hands -- they out perform equally or more expensive non-1911A1 .45s.

The pre-WWI Colt was legacy from my father. However, the Kimber and the Springfield both cost approximately $600, well less than the $1000 cited in you posting. Further, as mentioned above, both the Kimber and the Springfield have provided really excellent service and they're a great deal more accurate than I.

In sum, for $500 to $600 you can buy a new 1911A1 that will be reliable, durable, and accurate.
 
I think that the idea that you have to spend a ton of money on your 1911 to get it to work right is pure crap used to sell more gun magazines.

I bought a Springfield loaded that was 100% reliable with hardball, but had a hard time with hollow points. I have several friends with SA 1911's and I was the only one with that problem. I sent it back to Springfield under warranty. They fixed it in fifteen days, and then second day aired it back to me. It just got here today, and I haven't been able to shoot it yet, but they included a note saying that they polished it up good, and tested it with HydroShoks, Gold Dots, and Golden Sabers. Didn't cost me anything. That is good service.

Yes, it can be cool to customize a 1911, there are thousands of shooters who do so. It is kind of the hot rod of handguns. In fact I would love to have a really nice customized badmutha 1911 from hell, mostly so I can have something that is "special". But my Springfield is a better shooter than I am, and a great gun for the money.

Buy the loaded model and don't look back.
 
Despite what you may have heard, you do NOT need to spend ANY money to make a modern manufacture brand name 1911 work out of the box. If the gun has any problems out of the box, the correct thing to do is to send it back to the manufacturer and have them make it right. That said, I have NEVER had a single problem with a factory new 1911.
 
Don't buy into the myth

The myth that a 1911 must have thousands of dollars worth of custom work to be reliable is wrong. Don't believe it.

Personally, I think it grew up around the myriad of pistolsmiths who make a living customizing 1911s. They love to sell the idea that you must buy a "loaded" or "custom" or "combat" something-or-other to have a good pistol.

Ask yourself this: If 1911s are really so unreliable when in stock condition, why are they so universally loved, accepted, tinkered with, carried, and used by so many people. Do you really believe all 1911 owners have custom guns? No way. My favorite 1911 is a mil-spec Springfield.

Also, the Glockophiles and yuppie wonderpistol affecionadoes have made a lot of mileage out of this same misconception. Their pistols are just as subject to improvement and tinkering over 90 years of refinement as the 1911, should their popularity last a long.

Buy a stock 1911 with quality mags, put 500 rounds through it, and see if you still think you need to install another $1000 to have a quality shooter. I doubt you'll feel that way again, although your other pistols may get tired of being ignored.

(No offense to the Glockophiles, you've got a great weapon there, too).
 
Please take into consideration the fact that Springfield, Colt, Kimber all produce thousands of 1911 every year. If they weren't reliable, wouldn't their business have crumbled due to an overload in the customer service department?

Yes, there are lemons produced by every manufacturer. More often then not, people that experienced a bad 1911 post their experiences. Therefore, you hear about all the problems. Too often, many of the reliability problems are caused by faulty magazines or slide stops. It’s a quandary that is easy to rectify.

Instead of listening to one or two people, go buy a couple of boxes of 230 hardball. Then go rent a 1911 and have a blast. Experience the reliability issue (or lack there of) for yourself.
 
I have a half-dozen 1911's of various makes and models, and the only one that doesn't work all the time is the one I built. The beauty of the 1911 is that you CAN make it into whatever you want, not that you have to. There are no design defects in the 1911, but if you get one that is out of spec, like a lot of them are, they might not work.
 
I currently have Kimber Custom Target and Ultra Carry, a Colt series 80 1911A1 and SA Milspec 1911 and they are all totally reliable and accurate. Every one is factory stock and have no modifications except for new springs. I like these pistols just as they are and I don't see any need for modifications. Oh yeah, I did spend some money on fancy exotic wood grips (all traditional diamond pattern) but thats just for looks. If 1911 wasn't so good they would not have been around for so long.
 
A new FireStorm will run you about $300. No problems to speak of from me.
 
The only real Model 1911 and Model 1911A1 are extremely reliable with the ammunition for which they are designed. They built an enviable reputation that is now being traded on by every cottage industry gun maker in the country or maybe the world.

Pistols are being built with hammers made in one country and safeties in another; with stamped parts, cast parts, molded parts, plastic parts, alloy parts and, for all I know, parts made from specially hardened doggie doo.

Those guns are made to look nice and shiny and have all the modern bells and whistles. They are made to sell, not necessarily to work. They are not even really finished, so that makers tell the buyer to spend $200 on ammo to "break in" a $1500 pistol that should work out of the box.

Many makers have a "customer service department" whose main job is to make excuses and stonewall until the warranty expires, then offer to "fix" the gun at some exorbitant price.

But, as long as sales hold up and the suckers keep coming, the attitude of the makers of the cast clones is (to borrow a phrase from Alfred E. Neuman) "What, me worry?"

Jim
 
Oh lord here we go again. You just slammed the holiest of holies! I have quite a few negative feelings about 1911's which I'll keep to myself. However I must say that I've owned Kimbers, Springfields and Colts. The Kimbers had problems, the Springfields had problems. Funny thing was that the three p.o.s Colt's that I owned never ever had problems. Never a feed jam...nothing. They worked right out of the box and this was around the time in the mid to late 90's when Colt's quality was really in question. I really think with 1911's these days it's a crap shoot. However there are no perfect guns except those that "perfectly" suit you. Whether that pistol be a Glock, 1911, Sig or whatever, just so long as it suits you.
 
Don't blame the gun

My shooting buddy has a box stock Norinco that I'm not even sure he knows HOW to clean. Shoots fine for him.

If you are looking for greater accuracy than the gun was designed for, or to use other than FMJ, don't be surprised if you need tuning, fitting and upgrading done.

Full length guide rod anyone?

Before you spend a lot of money on a 1911, let someone else shoot it and see if they have the same problems. I have a very tight Custom Shop Commander that fires every time for me that Mr. Norinco can't get through one mag with.

Finally, and most emphatically, this is the pistol that saved Europe, twice.

Regards.
 
Ditto what others have said. It's an old wive's tale--leastwise for modern era 1911's from reputable manufacturers. I shoot Kimber. I've never had anything done to it out of the box. I'll hold it's reliability and accuracy up to anybody's gun, 1911 or not.

I think that one of the things that many 1911 owners like to do is to tweak their gun and do something to it that makes it individual. It's like owning a Harley. You can put a lot of money into it accessorizing to make it your Harley that looks different than my Harley. So, yes, there are folks taking their 1911's in for work. Do they HAVE to? I doubt it.

BTW, my stainless Kimber Compact with pretty Rosewood grips was purchased for well under a thousand dollars.

RJ
 
I own two springfields(stock guns) no jams, super accurate,
For me the 1911 has a "feel" that no other gun can copy,
well maybe my cz75.
 
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