I would like a Hot Rod 6mm.....so which one?

Hi Brian,
You have to remember that they are thinking from an XTC perspective and the rapid fire requirements of 10 shot strings.

I believe their main issue with the .243AI is the overall length. It's too long to fit in the mags.

The difference between the .243 and 6CM is that the 6CM holds 2 more grains of water. Another thing I found out is that most people shooting 6CM use a 28" barrel to get those velocities.
 
Eppie, I suspect you're thinking of 6mm Remington AI, when referring to .243 AI (.243 Winchester Ackley Improved).
The actual .243 AI runs the same basic OAL as .243 Win, and works with any 'standard' short action. The 6mm AI, however, is based on the 7x57mm case, which is notably longer (and requires an intermediate or long action).


And, don't let barrel length get into your head, too much. The bore and groove finish will have more impact on velocity than the actual length.

I have owned a 22" and a 25.5" .243 Winchester.
One of my brothers owns 18" and 22" .243 Winchesters.
And, my father just jumped on the bandwagon with a 24" .243 Win.
We have all shot the same Remington 100 gr factory load, as well as a Federal 100 gr load, and a Winchester 100 gr load. The difference between the barrel lengths only differs 33 to 140 fps. With a difference of 7.5" .... only 33-140 fps. ;)
And with handloaded Hornady 95 gr SSTs on top of IMR 4064?... 40 fps.

Unless you drop some serious change for a high end barrel, or have someone hand-lap a decent quality barrel, anything over 20" is a crapshoot. It might get you a little more velocity ... or it might not.
 
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Hi Brian,
You have to remember that they are thinking from an XTC perspective and the rapid fire requirements of 10 shot strings.

I believe their main issue with the .243AI is the overall length. It's too long to fit in the mags.

The difference between the .243 and 6CM is that the 6CM holds 2 more grains of water. Another thing I found out is that most people shooting 6CM use a 28" barrel to get those velocities.
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You're definitely confusing the .243AI and the 6mm Rem AI.

The .243AI and the 6mm CM are both formed from standard .243Win cases and according to the diagram up above, the CM has less shoulder angle. It's case capacity should be between the .243Win and .243AI.

Besides, 2gr is nothing. You can gain or lose 2gr of water capacity just by switching brands of cases.
 
Brian Pfleuger said: You're definitely confusing the .243AI and the 6mm Rem AI.
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FrankenMauser said: Eppie, I suspect you're thinking of 6mm Remington AI, when referring to .243 AI (.243 Winchester Ackley Improved).
The actual .243 AI runs the same basic OAL as .243 Win, and works with any 'standard' short action. The 6mm AI, however, is based on the 7x57mm case, which is notably longer (and requires an intermediate or long action).
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You're both right. My apologies, somewhere along the way I went off the rails. A good night sleep restores balance.

Brian and Frankenmauser, all your comments are right on the money. The plain .243, the .243AI, the 6CM and the .243 Improved 30 degree are all from the same case, same length. The difference is only is shoulder angle. The 6SLR is from the same case, but the shoulder is slightly lower than the .243 Improved 30 degree so that it can have a longer neck.

It's all very interesting and can be confusing. I think there is some merit over the shoulder angle, but whether it is 30, 31 or 40 degrees will probably never be determined conclusively.

Certainly buying dies is much more straight forward with the .243AI than any of the others. But, as I learned in my old marketing classes, a catchy name can make a big difference in perception and acceptance of a product. That certainly would apply when dealing with the custom rifle crowd.

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Brian, if you send me one of your cases, I'll get the others and make a nice picture comparing all four flavors for future reference. Send me an e-mail or pm.
 

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The .243AI is essentially a mainstream round in terms of dies. There's not a ton of selection but you really only need one, right? ;) .243Win Lee collet neck die and .243AI Redding body die, $57 and you're done.

That alone would decide for me. It's so close to the CM also be irrelevant. It's really not enough different from the Win to matter, except that I like to be different.
 
Sorry Ace65 and reynolds357 but it's a toss up between .243AI, 6CM or .243 Improved 30.

I'm leaning towards 6CM (Competition Match) simply because it's very descriptive of its intended use.
 
You said you wanted a "hot rod" and none of the above three really fit that bill. I like them, but they are not really hot rod 6mm's.
 
reynolds357 said: You said you wanted a "hot rod" and none of the above three really fit that bill. I like them, but they are not really hot rod 6mm's.
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I Guess "Hot Rod" could be interpreted as extreme speed. But I opened by saying
I've started to focus more on target and competitions for extreme distance and extreme accuracy.
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It is my OPINION that since the .243AI, 6CM or .243 Improved 30 degree would qualify as Hot Rods since they all push a 115 DTAC at over 3,000 fps with ease while also providing longer barrel and brass life.

But in the pure speed, the devil may care department 6 x 284,the 6 Remington and the 6-06 may be the ones to beat.
 
I'm leaning towards 6CM (Competition Match) simply because it's very descriptive of its intended use.
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You do what you want but the last reason on earth I'd buy a particular round is the name they decided to put on it.

Function and lack of being a pain in the butt are top reasons. The only "personality" reason I have is that I don't like to have what everybody and their brother has. That has very real limits, though. A cartridge like the CM is way over the line. I can't even find the place that makes it. I have no interest in a cartridge that's almost entirely maintained by one guy, especially when it is SO CLOSE to both the .243Win and AI, both of which have every thing you need at MidWayUSA.
 
Brian, you are absolutely right. It is much easier to go with the .243AI. The rational thing would be to go with the .243AI.But like you said above:

.... except that I like to be different.
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I look at it as my version of a Vanity plate that some put on their cars. Since I'm having a custom rifle, why not go all the way custom. I'm even buying a reamer and go=gauge so that in the future I can re-barrel to the same exact specs.

You also have to recall that I got confused between the 6mm AI and the .243AI back there for a while. That's when I ordered the reamer. I can still cancel it, but I'm really OK with it. I already have the die, ironically Redding doesn't call it 6 CM at all.
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In all fairness names and labels do make a difference in the real world. A classic business case is the Chevy Nova, it was a success in the US but a flop in Latin America because "No Va" means "It doesn't go" in Spanish. Redding would probably sell more if it relabeled their box.
 

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In all fairness names and labels do make a difference in the real world.
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They do, but it's not logical. You shouldn't make decisions based on such irrelevant criteria as a name. The cartridge does what it does. If you want it's performance, would you have not bought it if it was called the .243Uber? OR what if the first name you saw was the .243 EGOLF IMP? Would that have changed your mind? That's kind of silly, IMO. Buy it for what it does, not for the name.
 
We're way off topic here.

BUT, I'm more likely to believe my marketing text books and professors than snopes (if it's on the internet it must be true...)

The fact that it was changed to Caribe speak volumes. Names do make a difference, any marketing and psychology major will tell you that. Just talk to anyone that does marketing research

I believe one of the reasons the 6 SLR is doing so well is because it is because it has Super in its name and it is easy to remember. Just like it's easier to remember 6 CM than .243 Egolf Improved. Marketing it's all about getting noticed and getting the customer to remember so they can ask for it by NAME.

The fact that I got confused between 6AI and .243AI is also proof that names make a difference. We all know that 6mm and .243 are the same thing, it was logic that confused me. NAMES make a difference.

There was an Italian restaurant in Houston called Crapito's Italian Restaurant. It had excellent food, but his owner Joe Crapito didn't see how it may impact the a customer's decision to dine there. Well it's not in business anymore.
 
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