I Think This Needs Said Again....
- Thread starter Nathan
- Start date
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Close to being a drive by but it is a good article.
To expand on the conversation, folks worry about an ND if they carry chambered. Here's an analysis of the LAPD problems with NDs:
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2015/12/21/la-sheriff-report-sw-mp-pistols-are-unsafe/
The main problems were lack of trigger control and mishaps with the WML controls.
So, training, training, training is the key as compared to handicapping yourself.
To expand on the conversation, folks worry about an ND if they carry chambered. Here's an analysis of the LAPD problems with NDs:
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2015/12/21/la-sheriff-report-sw-mp-pistols-are-unsafe/
The main problems were lack of trigger control and mishaps with the WML controls.
So, training, training, training is the key as compared to handicapping yourself.
g.willikers
New member
Expecting equipment to overcome a lack of skills is folly.
If there's a danger of an ND with a loaded chamber, the danger still exists after that first round is loaded, too.
For folks who are afraid of their own loaded guns, maybe they should just carry a club.
If there's a danger of an ND with a loaded chamber, the danger still exists after that first round is loaded, too.
For folks who are afraid of their own loaded guns, maybe they should just carry a club.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Clubs are not legal in TX. Haha! Couldn't resist.
I agree with the statement.
I agree with the statement.
Evil Monkey
New member
The LASD needs to get higher IQ officers, not new guns.
Matter of fact, all of California needs to be replaced with a higher IQ population.
g.willikers
New member
But where would all those displaced Californians go?
Might be better to leave them where they are.
More easily avoided if they're all in one place.
Poor Nick C S, having to endure.
I usta' be a Californian.
Must have gotten out in the Nick of time.
Might be better to leave them where they are.
More easily avoided if they're all in one place.
Poor Nick C S, having to endure.
I usta' be a Californian.
Must have gotten out in the Nick of time.
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aarondhgraham
New member
I can't believe I'm the first to say,,,
I can't believe I'm the first to say,,,
"But, the Israelis carry like that."
Sorry, couldn't restrain myself.
I agree that it is folly,,,
But the only person they really endanger is themselves.
If that's how someone wants to carry,,,
I might try to explain things to them,,,
But I won't try to change their mind.
Aarond
.
I can't believe I'm the first to say,,,
"But, the Israelis carry like that."
Sorry, couldn't restrain myself.
I agree that it is folly,,,
But the only person they really endanger is themselves.
If that's how someone wants to carry,,,
I might try to explain things to them,,,
But I won't try to change their mind.
Aarond
.
Modern firearm.....no reason not to carry one in the chamber........vintage firearm maybe not a good idea depending on design. Some wheel guns it is still a good idea to have the hammer down on an empty cylinder.
My 1907 Savages and my 1927 I carry with the chamber empty as the safety parts are just to fragile and a worn cocker will allow these guns to run auto.
Ortiges have a grip safety but I still would not trust them.
My Star Super B I carry with one in the pipe but I used a short piece of matchstick under the hammer. Cocked and locked.......bad idea as the lock has disengaged and it is just as easy to have the hammer down on the piece of matchstick and locked. Just draw flip off the lock and thumb the hammer back and the piece of match stick falls clear of the action.
My 1907 Savages and my 1927 I carry with the chamber empty as the safety parts are just to fragile and a worn cocker will allow these guns to run auto.
Ortiges have a grip safety but I still would not trust them.
My Star Super B I carry with one in the pipe but I used a short piece of matchstick under the hammer. Cocked and locked.......bad idea as the lock has disengaged and it is just as easy to have the hammer down on the piece of matchstick and locked. Just draw flip off the lock and thumb the hammer back and the piece of match stick falls clear of the action.
orionengnr
New member
Back where they came from. Many, South of the Border.
Having lived there from 1982-2001, I can say that a lot of native Californians back then had some common sense. But all of a sudden, everyone wanted to live there, and a lot of them were (or allowed themselves to be) affected by idiots.
Happy I got to spend some time there; even happier that I got out when I did.
Never to return.
If you don't want to carry cocked-and-locked or worry about striker discharges (I wonder about those who really are worried about the latter), there are hammer-fired DAO options as well as strike-fired ones. I might avoid the Beretta Tomcat (I had a non-Inox that had a frame crack after only a couple of hundred rounds), but there is the Beretta Pico for current production hammer-fired .380 fans, the Colt Pony (no longer in production but still found if you look), and a number of mini nines as well.
As for hammer on an empty chamber in a wheel gun, all you've lost is the last round, not the first; hammer goes back, loaded chamber advances into battery.
As for hammer on an empty chamber in a wheel gun, all you've lost is the last round, not the first; hammer goes back, loaded chamber advances into battery.
All NATO troops on bases in Afghanistan carry in condition 3.
They were used to carrying empty weapons before that.
http://sofrep.com/10530/soldiers-in-afghanistan-allowed-to-load-their-weapons/
They were used to carrying empty weapons before that.
http://sofrep.com/10530/soldiers-in-afghanistan-allowed-to-load-their-weapons/
Obambulate
New member
I agree with the Sheriff that people should get proper training or consider carrying a DA revolver. They are quite safe for carry with a very simple manual of arms.
An empty chamber is a impediment to anyone who does not have both hands empty when the need to fire happens. For instance a police officer with a flashlight, notepad, ticket book, etc. in his left hand. Anything carried in the left hand would have to be dropped and the empty chambered gun then grasped in both hands to charge the chamber (rack the gun). In contrast, the loaded chamber gun can be brought to bear with one hand...even before dropping whatever is in the left (or in the case of a flashlight at night, not dropped at all). Aside from that, certain situations like sitting, in a car or other places, charging the gun using both hands can be problematic.
Furthermore, consider if an entity ( police, etc.), requires conditions three, the officer has to charge the gun every time he needs to draw it. Most of the time when that happens he will not need to fire and then has to return the gun to condition three before holstering it...a time rife with the possibility of an accidental discharge.
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Tactical Jackalope
New member
dahermit & hartcreek said it.
So I won't add much to that. However, I will say this. My father is very old school and he was held up at gun point while being robbed. He did not have his gun chambered when this happened. It wasn't even on him in this instance. He said he knew he could have drawn and racked one in when the criminal already had their weapon digging into his ribs. Thankfully he got the money and took off. Best possible scenario occurred. He knows better now and never listened to me before that happened.
You need to factor in this: The criminals always have the drop on us. They choose when, how, and where they'll choose to make you their victim. Any extra advantage you can prepare for on your end is always key. Sticking to the topic at hand and not venturing off, the extra seconds it takes to clear a cover garment, draw, rack, grip properly, and present whether it be from retention or arms out is too much time when someone has the drop on you as opposed to just clearing a cover garment, drawing, presenting while shooting isn't worth it for a fear that shouldn't be there with most modern firearms. Especially ones left factory.
So I won't add much to that. However, I will say this. My father is very old school and he was held up at gun point while being robbed. He did not have his gun chambered when this happened. It wasn't even on him in this instance. He said he knew he could have drawn and racked one in when the criminal already had their weapon digging into his ribs. Thankfully he got the money and took off. Best possible scenario occurred. He knows better now and never listened to me before that happened.
You need to factor in this: The criminals always have the drop on us. They choose when, how, and where they'll choose to make you their victim. Any extra advantage you can prepare for on your end is always key. Sticking to the topic at hand and not venturing off, the extra seconds it takes to clear a cover garment, draw, rack, grip properly, and present whether it be from retention or arms out is too much time when someone has the drop on you as opposed to just clearing a cover garment, drawing, presenting while shooting isn't worth it for a fear that shouldn't be there with most modern firearms. Especially ones left factory.
Mannlicher
New member
The manner in which members of the military carry their weapons, be they Israeli or American, has little or no bearing on what is prudent for civilians.
part of this mentality was in American police work decades ago for revolvers. a lot of plain clothes/undercover guys lined up an empty chamber in their revolvers so that if a criminal got their gun away from them the first shot would be a "click" and hopefully make them pause. this was to give the UC or narc a chance to get his BUG in action.
thankfully that "procedure" has fallen by the way side.
thankfully that "procedure" has fallen by the way side.