Wildalaska
Moderator
Naw probly me, I am way lost way back on this thread and still havent caught up 
WildwhyyaupsolateAlaska
WildwhyyaupsolateAlaska
I see a problem. Give me one reason LEO's need this.
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Hunter Rose
New member
heh... Spoon and I just got back from a show some friends were preforming. Guess I'm a lil' touchy after dealing with drunks all night...
Well, against my better judgement, I'll chime in and wait for the inevitable bashing to follow:
1. Why do cops wear BDU's?
I'll tell you why I wear--and prefer BDU's, and jumpsuits. After paying out of my own pocket to replace the third LAPD blue, 100% worsted wool uniform I tore up on patrol (shirt, about $70, pants, $90--each piece), I went to the authorized BDU uniform. Cost of the BDU uniform, with patches and nametags? About $35.00. Cost of the jumpsuit? $90.00.
2. Why do we need this high speed body armor?
Consider the recent shooting at Tacoma Mall, in WA State. Let's say that you were outside, preparing to go in while everyone who could was running OUT. Here's your briefing:
"OK. We'll enter from this side, team 2 is coming in from the other side. We'll try to herd this guy into this location. Hopefully, he'll surrender peacefully. By the way, he has an AK and an undetermined amount of ammo; we think he has a CZ 52 pistol, too. He's already shot a number of people, and we have to take him in--or take him down. Ready? Let's go!"
Now, wouldn't YOU want to be able to go in with a tank--or the best body armor you could get?
Also, situations like that are EXACTLY the reason why police train using military tactics. You are essentially assaulting an armed combatant.
So, what do you folks want us to do--go wrestle lions wearing pork-chop underwear?
1. Why do cops wear BDU's?
I'll tell you why I wear--and prefer BDU's, and jumpsuits. After paying out of my own pocket to replace the third LAPD blue, 100% worsted wool uniform I tore up on patrol (shirt, about $70, pants, $90--each piece), I went to the authorized BDU uniform. Cost of the BDU uniform, with patches and nametags? About $35.00. Cost of the jumpsuit? $90.00.
2. Why do we need this high speed body armor?
Consider the recent shooting at Tacoma Mall, in WA State. Let's say that you were outside, preparing to go in while everyone who could was running OUT. Here's your briefing:
"OK. We'll enter from this side, team 2 is coming in from the other side. We'll try to herd this guy into this location. Hopefully, he'll surrender peacefully. By the way, he has an AK and an undetermined amount of ammo; we think he has a CZ 52 pistol, too. He's already shot a number of people, and we have to take him in--or take him down. Ready? Let's go!"
Now, wouldn't YOU want to be able to go in with a tank--or the best body armor you could get?
Also, situations like that are EXACTLY the reason why police train using military tactics. You are essentially assaulting an armed combatant.
So, what do you folks want us to do--go wrestle lions wearing pork-chop underwear?
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Seems our few vocal members who are in LE are always whining about how unfair it is to discuss "militarization of police", yet, at the same time, argue how necessary military equipment and training is...so, which is it?
What, you want to eat your cake and have it too? Just checking
What, you want to eat your cake and have it too? Just checking
cops and gear
Im no cop hater but i dislike them more every time i have to deal with them, the last time i got pulled over was for a inspection sticker and the cop had the nerve to tell me to put my cigarette out while talking to him, and i was in my truck! I would just love someone to explain that to me. Im a dam citizen in my truck, im 45 yrs old (legal to smoke) and that cop was doing nothing but being a smart ass. But back on track, i personally dont see all of the need for all of the gear they have these days. Like one guy said the dopers usually have cheap, un-maintained guns that they probally dont even know how to operate, turning the gun side-ways and all that ''cool G-dog crap''. I think they should stop watching shows like all of the CSI junk and that 24 show and all is a bunch of bull. Its all fantasy tv.
Im no cop hater but i dislike them more every time i have to deal with them, the last time i got pulled over was for a inspection sticker and the cop had the nerve to tell me to put my cigarette out while talking to him, and i was in my truck! I would just love someone to explain that to me. Im a dam citizen in my truck, im 45 yrs old (legal to smoke) and that cop was doing nothing but being a smart ass. But back on track, i personally dont see all of the need for all of the gear they have these days. Like one guy said the dopers usually have cheap, un-maintained guns that they probally dont even know how to operate, turning the gun side-ways and all that ''cool G-dog crap''. I think they should stop watching shows like all of the CSI junk and that 24 show and all is a bunch of bull. Its all fantasy tv.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Welcome to another episode of "US vs Them"
Hunter Rose
New member
TBO: this happens EVERY thread. Right and wrong on both sides of it, and it keeps getting worse. So... ya'll Hatfields, or Mc Coys?
I'd like to point out the lack of a smiley. I'm dead flippin' serious: it's getting to that point...
I'd like to point out the lack of a smiley. I'm dead flippin' serious: it's getting to that point...
Marko Kloos
Inactive
Just out of curiosity...do you think the officer in question ever instructs his badge-wearing smoker colleagues to put out their cigarettes when they're talking to him?
Wildalaska
Moderator
To allow a person in a stop to smoke interferes with officer safety.
WildobviouslyAlaska
WildobviouslyAlaska
Marko Kloos
Inactive
How so?
Fjolnirsson
New member
Hunter, You're absolutely right. It's ridiculous. We should be finding ways to bridge this gap between citizen and police, not make it wider.
What it all boils down to, IMO, is the drug war. Without that, we'd still be back in Mayberry. There's been a fundamental change in the way recruits are taught. Most never think of themselves as "peace officers", except as part of a legal definition. The term "Law Enforcement Officer", doesn't help. "To Protect And Serve" has become "Go Home Safely At The End Of Shift". And that isn't right.
Of course, there are things the rest of us can do to help. A little politeness goes a long way in keeping the cop who's had a bad day off your neck. When you get pulled over, if you start out with a bad attitude, chances are the interaction with the officer will be unpleasant. I'm not saying be meek, I'm saying don't be a Jerk from the onset.
Ah, well, I didn't mean to get preachy. I'll get off my soapbox now.
What it all boils down to, IMO, is the drug war. Without that, we'd still be back in Mayberry. There's been a fundamental change in the way recruits are taught. Most never think of themselves as "peace officers", except as part of a legal definition. The term "Law Enforcement Officer", doesn't help. "To Protect And Serve" has become "Go Home Safely At The End Of Shift". And that isn't right.
Of course, there are things the rest of us can do to help. A little politeness goes a long way in keeping the cop who's had a bad day off your neck. When you get pulled over, if you start out with a bad attitude, chances are the interaction with the officer will be unpleasant. I'm not saying be meek, I'm saying don't be a Jerk from the onset.
Ah, well, I didn't mean to get preachy. I'll get off my soapbox now.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Marko is that expanding or curtailing thread drift?
Marko Kloos
Inactive
TBO,
that's not an answer to my question. Your reply to Marky's post was every bit on- or off-topic as my inquiry to you. You can't just toss stuff like that out and then cry "thread drift" if someone asks you to expand on your statement.
that's not an answer to my question. Your reply to Marky's post was every bit on- or off-topic as my inquiry to you. You can't just toss stuff like that out and then cry "thread drift" if someone asks you to expand on your statement.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
In that we disagree. Someone posted a thread that:
-generalized
-in that generalization, it also labled
-and it was an appeal to emotion
-with the end result being: "the Police" are all bad
My post called him on it, and did so on a non-antagonistic manner.
I left it at that, in order to hopefully terminate that line of march so the main topic could return.
There is litterally nothing on here stopping a post from starting their own "I don't like the Police because..." thread.
-generalized
-in that generalization, it also labled
-and it was an appeal to emotion
-with the end result being: "the Police" are all bad
My post called him on it, and did so on a non-antagonistic manner.
I left it at that, in order to hopefully terminate that line of march so the main topic could return.
There is litterally nothing on here stopping a post from starting their own "I don't like the Police because..." thread.
Wildalaska
Moderator
The Officer during a stop, has to watch for traffic threats and thrid party threats as well as interacting with the "stopee", evaluating his behavior as either a potential threat or in terms of the specific incident casuing the stop together with monitoring radio traffic and evakluating documents. One of the key fractors in officer safety is vigilantly watching the stopees hands. The constant moving of a cigarette from mouth to pocket area area as the stopee puffs is distracting and could be used to disguise a threatening movement.
Im sure some LEOs will chime in on this, my recall is that "no smoking" is SOP on all stops in most police jurisdictions.
Wildtrafficstopsarethenumber1ornumber2fatalitycausersforofficersAlaska
Hunter Rose
New member
>my recall is that "no smoking" is SOP on all stops in most police jurisdictions<
Ummm... not unless it's a fairly recent addition to SOP, or every officer that's ever stopped me has violated it. The first thing I do, after getting my license out, is roll a smoke (yes: for those who don't know, I handroll my smokes). Been that way since I started driving (longer ago than I care to think about). I have NEVER had an officer tell me to put my smoke out...
Ummm... not unless it's a fairly recent addition to SOP, or every officer that's ever stopped me has violated it. The first thing I do, after getting my license out, is roll a smoke (yes: for those who don't know, I handroll my smokes). Been that way since I started driving (longer ago than I care to think about). I have NEVER had an officer tell me to put my smoke out...
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