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I just drew my revolver on a guy
- Thread starter Microgunner
- Start date
I also am of the ilk that goes in "unarmed" first to announce intent... When I return it is action open, with the gun in a neutral carry position and not carried by grip or other possible to operate position I hand over or place the firearm on the counter with the stock or grip in their direction...
Brent
Brent
Double Naught Spy
New member
I just drew my revolver on a guy
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A scruffy looking man on a bicycle just came into the shop and proceeded to reach into his front pocket and draw out a loaded Taurus .38spl revolver.
So when did you know the revolver was loaded? When you drew, you didn't know it was loaded, so whether or not it was loaded doesn't really matter.
So a scruffy guy came in your pawn shop. I know that it is scary when scruffy people come in a pawn shop, but the are often an integral part of the business. We found, however, that it was often the nicely dressed people who caused the problems.
When he looked up he was staring at my S&W 340PD .357mag pointing directly at his chest.
He was surprised and asked if I was going to shoot him.
I said I was thinking about it.
That wasn't a smart thing to say. Telling him that you were making sure he would not shoot you would convey the same sentiment without the threat and also let him know without talking down to him that what he did was unsafe.
I reprimanded him telling him he should expect to be shot whenever he draws a handgun unannounced and that in the future he should bring it into the shop unloaded in a bag if he intends to display it.
Along with telling the guy you were thinking about shooting him, reprimmanding him wasn't a very good idea either. Explaining politely and professionally how he should approach the situation might have garnered you a valuable customer. Since you apparently didn't like the cut of his jib, telling him you were thinking about killing him and publically reprimanding him, potentially humiliating him might be the type of thing that finds your business on fire in the middle of the night, if indeed your fears about him were valid.
I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me and how stupid some folks can be.
You mean how stupid your gun owning customers can be?
I encounter firearms in every state of readiness daily but rarely draw my sidearm.
We did as well and never drew a sidearm. The "stop" command usually worked quite sufficiently.
It really sounds like you were expressing your displeasure for the guy being stupid in your shop and you wanted to let him know it. You didn't like the way he looked and you didn't like the way he behaved. Somehow I have a feeling you would have been courteous to the little old lady for behaving in an equally stupid manner, but not a scruffy guy.I was attempting to save this man's life in the future.
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We used to have people get mad when we would not take their loaded guns into pawn. We explained that it was a safety issue. We didn't sell ammo in our shop either, for that matter. So then they just wanted to pawn the ammo with the gun, which seemed reasonable until you realized all of them wanted to load the gun in the shop before leaving. So no ammo, LOL.
checkmyswag
New member
The sworn deputies were cleared by the county sheriff
Not sure what this means.
Watch your lane.
orionengnr
New member
How is it that the first person to "pull a gun" is innnocent, while the person who just had a gun pulled on him is automatically assumed guilty?When I tried to take it out, the man pointed a gun at me and said he'd shoot me!"
These situations can be subjective, and if I pull a gun on someone, it's assault in most localities.
I understand that Justice is blind, but if she is deaf, dumb, blind and incredibly stupid as well...God help us all....
Glad I don't live where you do.
I'm with the OP. If I pull a loaded gun from my pocket without discussing it first, I expect to have a gun pointed at me and shot if I cover him with the muzzle holding the gun in my hand.
I mean really, we are that stupid. How would the OP know when he is being robbed? Or, is that a great robbing gig.
Go into pawn shop, pull your loaded gun. If you get drawn on, just ask if the pawn guy will buy for twice retail value.
Me no likey!
I mean really, we are that stupid. How would the OP know when he is being robbed? Or, is that a great robbing gig.
Go into pawn shop, pull your loaded gun. If you get drawn on, just ask if the pawn guy will buy for twice retail value.
Me no likey!
Well, if you're stupid enough to walk up to someone and pull a gun out of your pocket then I'd say yes, you should look around to see how many people are pointing a gun at you.
Here it would be every employee present.
Not stupid at all, but thanks for playing.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Man, do you have that wrong.orionengnr said:How is it that the first person to "pull a gun" is innnocent, while the person who just had a gun pulled on him is automatically assumed guilty?..if I pull a gun on someone, it's assault in most localities...
I understand that Justice is blind, but if she is deaf, dumb, blind and incredibly stupid as well...God help us all....
Glad I don't live where you do.
If you pull a gun on someone, it's assault everywhere. Now maybe you can establish that you were justified in pulling the gun, i. e., a reasonable person in your shoes would have believed he was about to be killed; and that can be a defense to the criminal charge of assault. But unless/until you can establish at least a prima facie case of justification, you're on the hook.
Folks who carry a gun or who have a gun for self defense really need to understand how the law works here.
Oh, but you already do. We live in a society that has a penchant for litigation.Glad I don't live where you do.
In that situation, the best course of action would be a stern warning to watch the muzzle, set the gun down on the counter, and let me inspect/clear the weapon.
If the weapon hasn't been pointed at me and the person hasn't made any other threatening overtures, then I might have trouble explaining to police or a jury why I drew on someone. After all, people have brain farts, and society seems to accept that.
Am I tempted to draw on people who do stuff like that? Sure. Would it do any good? Probably not.
FireForged
New member
Man, do you have that wrong.
If you pull a gun on someone, it's assault everywhere. Now maybe you can establish that you were justified in pulling the gun, i. e., a reasonable person in your shoes would have believed he was about to be killed; and that can be a defense to the criminal charge of assault. But unless/until you can establish at least a prima facie case of justification, you're on the hook.
ah, merely pointing a gun at someone doesnt appear to meet the primary element of assault in my neck of the woods. (according to the criminal code)
Lost Sheep
New member
Citation, please?FireForged said:ah, merely pointing a gun at someone doesnt meet the primary element of assault in my neck of the woods. (according to the criminal code)
I understand the difficulty of proving a negative, so please understand I am looking for case law (appeal courts) that supports your contention.
If you would share your location,we could look up the law in your neck of the woods.
Everywhere I know of in this country, laws state that the criteria for "assault" include (but is not limited to); putting someone in fear of bodily harm. Now, I will grant you that intent is an element that throws my disagreement with your assertion into some doubt, but pointing a deadly weapon is pretty severe.
I know a guy who was charged with assault when he only offered to shoot someone's window out with an air pistol. It went to trial, but I don't recall the verdict. But that was in Anchorage, not the South.
Lost Sheep
Lost Sheep
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Frank Ettin
Administrator
Yes, by all means, provide a citation.FireForged said:ah, merely pointing a gun at someone doesnt appear to meet the primary element of assault in my neck of the woods. (according to the criminal code)
The usual definition of assault, based on the Common Law is:
an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.
In the laws of some States this crime might be given another name. For example, in Alabama it's called "menacing" (Section 13A-6-23):
Menacing.
(a) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by physical action, he intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury.
(b) Menacing is a Class B misdemeanor.
In that situation, the best course of action would be a stern warning to watch the muzzle, set the gun down on the counter, and let me inspect/clear the weapon.
Unless the guy is actually going to shoot you. Then he's probably not going to listen to the warning.
I see your point of view. I've had shop owners pull guns on me twice, and I didn't like it.
To me the whole thing seems like a hell of a judgment call. If the guy gave kind of a bad vibe for some other reason, I can understand why a shop owner would risk being charged with assault, risk having to justify it later.
You're kidding, right?
Telling a person that reaching in their pocket and pulling out a handgun should get them shot is "actionable" where you live?
Glad I don't live there.
Not a matter of where one lives, but where one works. When people come into a shop on a regular basis and suddenly display the gun they want to sell, then one deals with it in his own way, I suppose. Producing a gun you want to sell in the same manner as one who's committing a robbery can be problematic.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Not a matter of where one lives, but where one works. When people come into a shop on a regular basis and suddenly display the gun they want to sell, then one deals with it in his own way, I suppose. Producing a gun you want to sell in the same manner as one who's committing a robbery can be problematic.
Yep, and it is a daily occurrence. If you watch the videos of many robberies, robbers come in with their guns already in hand, openly displayed, just like a LOT of customers pawning their guns. Do you draw on them?
Not everyone brings in their pistols in a rug or presentation box. They come in just about every way. The same goes for rifles.
Microgunner
New member
Yep, and it is a daily occurrence. If you watch the videos of many robberies, robbers come in with their guns already in hand, openly displayed, just like a LOT of customers pawning their guns. Do you draw on them?
Not everyone brings in their pistols in a rug or presentation box. They come in just about every way. The same goes for rifles.
I'm going to disagree a little with you here.
The vast majority, but not all, customers bring their firearms into the shop encased and unloaded.
The exceptions being regular known customers who may or may not retrieve their firearm from concealment, usually after asking and the very occasional new customer who believes we are mind readers and somehow know what he intends while drawing a firearm from concealment.
As I posted, this has happened more times than I can remember in my 25 year career and every time I've hesitated I ask myself "What was I waiting on, for him to shoot me?"
Keep in mind that we are all openly armed here and the opposite edge of that sword is your attacker may just shoot you to reduce his exposure to your gunfire.
Rock and a hard place.
Chuckusaret
Moderator
I refuse to do business with gun stores that have No Loaded Guns signs posted. Isn't it rather odd that Gander Mountain with an average inventory of >5K handguns and long guns in each store does not have a "No Guns" or "No Loaded Guns" sign posted. Never heard of any problem(s) at my local GM when a customer, while talking to a sales person, presents a weapon from his pocket and I have visited the store at least twice weekly since it opened and have seen it done quite often. When does paranoia overcome common sense?
Just my two cents worth.
Just my two cents worth.
@ Doublenaughtspy. He knew it was loaded when he saw the weapon. Rule 1 all weapons are treated as loaded. Now I think he did an ok thing but the telling the guy he might of shot him is a eh maybe not so good a choice of words. But one things for sure, Had he been an leo officer and the scruffy man just pulled a 38 revolver out hed be lucky not to be dead.