I have bought my last S&W
- Thread starter Tom B
- Start date
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I've decided to get rid of all my handguns and my safe and replace them with S&W safe models.
That way, I can now leave the guns lying about the house with no concerns whether or not my or the neighbor's children have access to them. After all, the govenment demanded safety locks to make the guns safe for the children, and the government knows exactly what its doing - trust them, their actions are well researched and not at all politically motivated.
How soon after this stupidity is implemented is someone going to sue S&W or the gov. for a failed safety lock? Very soon, I hope.
That way, I can now leave the guns lying about the house with no concerns whether or not my or the neighbor's children have access to them. After all, the govenment demanded safety locks to make the guns safe for the children, and the government knows exactly what its doing - trust them, their actions are well researched and not at all politically motivated.
How soon after this stupidity is implemented is someone going to sue S&W or the gov. for a failed safety lock? Very soon, I hope.
The specialist
New member
It's all smoke and mirrors!
i agree! have already fired off an email to the ceo, what little good THAT will do...have you all read the agreement itself(www.hud.gov/pressrel/gunagree.html)....I think the S & W ceo is a neville chamberlain that years from now will be cursed by ALL gunowners for his lack of spinal fortitude.
BAND TOGETHER AND REFUSE TO BUY S & W!!!!!!
BAND TOGETHER AND REFUSE TO BUY S & W!!!!!!
I assume these annoucements were promulgated by the news that S&W has capitulated to Klintons demands for trigger locks and product marketing practices, all of which is meaningless hogwash. The real issues are our attitude about Smith & Wesson doing what they perceive necessary to stay in business.
There is this pervasive attitude that Smith & Wesson owes the gunowners of this country something. I put this in the same category as people thinking that their employer owes them a job, or worse yet, thinking that the government owes them something. Once you consider that someone, some company, or the government owes your something, then you become dependent on them. The only thing Smith & Wesson owes me is a superior product and their responsibility to stand behind their product.
As distasteful as Smith & Wesson's agreement with Klinton is to me, the real issue is whether or not it is reasonable to expect the company to lose money by fighting government extortion through litigation.
In a free market economy all businesses and industries must focus on the bottom line. Profits and return to capital are those bottom line figures that determine if they will continue in business. The high cost of litigation will severely impact the bottom line and the company's stock prices which in turn makes it difficult to maintain profitability and raise operating capital.
The altruistic view that any of these gun companies can afford to really care about our Second Amendment rights is very naive. They are looking out for their business interest and if the gun business is no longer profitable they will simply produce other products. Many of these gun companies are already diversified so it will be relatively simple just to make that "cold business decision" to pursue more profitable product lines.
In the long term, market forces will prevail as many of these gun companies leave the market and those that remain will charge higher prices for their products. Eventually the gun market will find its equilibrium, when the forces of supply and demand determine a new price structure beyond the reach of the average citizen.
It is time to wake up to the fact that we are reaching the end of the era of affordable guns. Buy what you want now and hold on to your best guns as you will not be able to afford to replace them. While S&W has produced a few lemons over the years, their current product line has much to offer, especially in their revolver lines. Their values will increase dramatically overtime, so I will be adding more S&Ws to my collection.
The current litigation and legislative environment will make it virtually impossible for the average citizen to buy a gun. The wealthy, politically elite class will have total power over their subjects, and that will be us!
[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited March 17, 2000).]
There is this pervasive attitude that Smith & Wesson owes the gunowners of this country something. I put this in the same category as people thinking that their employer owes them a job, or worse yet, thinking that the government owes them something. Once you consider that someone, some company, or the government owes your something, then you become dependent on them. The only thing Smith & Wesson owes me is a superior product and their responsibility to stand behind their product.
As distasteful as Smith & Wesson's agreement with Klinton is to me, the real issue is whether or not it is reasonable to expect the company to lose money by fighting government extortion through litigation.
In a free market economy all businesses and industries must focus on the bottom line. Profits and return to capital are those bottom line figures that determine if they will continue in business. The high cost of litigation will severely impact the bottom line and the company's stock prices which in turn makes it difficult to maintain profitability and raise operating capital.
The altruistic view that any of these gun companies can afford to really care about our Second Amendment rights is very naive. They are looking out for their business interest and if the gun business is no longer profitable they will simply produce other products. Many of these gun companies are already diversified so it will be relatively simple just to make that "cold business decision" to pursue more profitable product lines.
In the long term, market forces will prevail as many of these gun companies leave the market and those that remain will charge higher prices for their products. Eventually the gun market will find its equilibrium, when the forces of supply and demand determine a new price structure beyond the reach of the average citizen.
It is time to wake up to the fact that we are reaching the end of the era of affordable guns. Buy what you want now and hold on to your best guns as you will not be able to afford to replace them. While S&W has produced a few lemons over the years, their current product line has much to offer, especially in their revolver lines. Their values will increase dramatically overtime, so I will be adding more S&Ws to my collection.
The current litigation and legislative environment will make it virtually impossible for the average citizen to buy a gun. The wealthy, politically elite class will have total power over their subjects, and that will be us!
[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited March 17, 2000).]
S&W and the other gun manufacturers DO owe the gun owners of this country something. The NRA, GOA, other gun rights groups, and individual gun owners have been fighting for decades to preserve the Second Amendment and, by necessary implication, the manufacturers' right to sell firearms. Not to mention the fact that we have been purchasing their products for 150 years.
Let me tell you something else. Most states have statutes that make a plaintiff who files a frivolous lawsuit liable for the prevailing defendants' attorney fees. The Klinton extortion lawsuits against the gun industry were frivolous. The industry should have fought them and tried to recover its attorney fees.
Ben Franklin said that if we don't all hang together, we will surely all hang separately. Looks like S&W (and eventually the other manufacturers, I'm sure) are hanging us out to dry.
Let me tell you something else. Most states have statutes that make a plaintiff who files a frivolous lawsuit liable for the prevailing defendants' attorney fees. The Klinton extortion lawsuits against the gun industry were frivolous. The industry should have fought them and tried to recover its attorney fees.
Ben Franklin said that if we don't all hang together, we will surely all hang separately. Looks like S&W (and eventually the other manufacturers, I'm sure) are hanging us out to dry.
Don't forget that S&W has an agreement with Walther!!! Walther USA is S&W too!
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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!!!
The only justice for a traitor is at the end of a rope!!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!!!
The only justice for a traitor is at the end of a rope!!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
For those who haven't, I strongly encourage you to read the transcript of the agreement at the location noted in previous posts. I think it may be wishful thinking to hope that these terms will not adversely impact 2nd amendment rights, as they seem to subject SW handgun design, development, and sales to federal oversight. And, surely, the government is already seeking to extend this agreement to other manufacturers (look at the 'Most favored entity' clause).
'Arrangements' of this sort used to be called blackmail, or perhaps extortion depending on the tactics employed by the federal negotiators. The marketplace will determine if SW will continue to be a player for civilian sales, but at this time this decision seems to be a step backwards for the great majority of shooters who are responsible gun owners.
'Arrangements' of this sort used to be called blackmail, or perhaps extortion depending on the tactics employed by the federal negotiators. The marketplace will determine if SW will continue to be a player for civilian sales, but at this time this decision seems to be a step backwards for the great majority of shooters who are responsible gun owners.
S&W did what they had to do to stay in business so we could keep buying guns!
They negotiated a way to keep making and selling guns,not to quit.
The reality of todays world is something we better all figure out before too long,or all guns will go the way of colt and the high power.
They negotiated a way to keep making and selling guns,not to quit.
The reality of todays world is something we better all figure out before too long,or all guns will go the way of colt and the high power.
plateshooter
New member
I'm with you etc, They basically gave them nothing they didn't have already, while getting the agreement from Federal, State, and Local governments not to sue them. Everyone has their ideas of what is right or wrong, but what we have to deal with is what is. If folks want a big court battle, we should all contribute to the fight instead of expecting the manufacturers to fight to preserve the 2nd amendment by themselves. Like you said, they can diversify and survive by producing other products, we the gun owners are the only ones to loose in the end. I will not boycott S&W.
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Good shootin to ya
Plateshooter
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Good shootin to ya
Plateshooter
AUTIGER73: I agree with your tact on this issue completely. The issue for any company is their stock holders best interests, plus what good are they to anyone, if they go belly up tilting at windmills. Now I want that Roll Tide...7th 
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
The safe gun in 3 years is a horror.
Also, we got ****** but didn't even get flowers and dinner.
Do we get anything in return?
Next will be national registration.
You know the rest.
Also, we got ****** but didn't even get flowers and dinner.
Do we get anything in return?
Next will be national registration.
You know the rest.
Guy B. Meredith
New member
Smith and Wesson is a very generous supporter of recreational shooters and competition shooters. I will patronize them for this and the quality of their product. Don't make Smith and Wesson a scapegoat for current politics. Put the blame where it belongs.
I wrote the following to the President:
I am a social nigger and will now be voting Republican.
Your agreement with Smith and Wesson once again shows the Democratic desire to reassure individuals that they need not take responsibility for their actions; that the government will provide someone else to blame.
The agreement also takes credit for something Smith and Wesson has been doing for years, leaving the impression that the opposite is true and casting doubt on Smith and Wesson's commitment to the public.
All the parts of the agreement will not overcome the problem of lack of personal responsibility. Rather than holding criminals and irresponsible people to their actions you are putting burdens that criminals will never feel on honest, responsible gun owners as scapegoats and treating us as social niggers.
I wrote the following to the President:
I am a social nigger and will now be voting Republican.
Your agreement with Smith and Wesson once again shows the Democratic desire to reassure individuals that they need not take responsibility for their actions; that the government will provide someone else to blame.
The agreement also takes credit for something Smith and Wesson has been doing for years, leaving the impression that the opposite is true and casting doubt on Smith and Wesson's commitment to the public.
All the parts of the agreement will not overcome the problem of lack of personal responsibility. Rather than holding criminals and irresponsible people to their actions you are putting burdens that criminals will never feel on honest, responsible gun owners as scapegoats and treating us as social niggers.
I think you've overlooked something here. S&W agreement was to produce the safe guns in two (or was it three?) years.
The REAL problem here is Slick Willie and his determination to get rid of guns. He will be gone in less than one year!
Could be the folks at S&W have pulled a slick one on him to buy some time. After November, it could be a whole new ball game.
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Politically, Fashionably and Aerodynamically Incorrect!
The REAL problem here is Slick Willie and his determination to get rid of guns. He will be gone in less than one year!
Could be the folks at S&W have pulled a slick one on him to buy some time. After November, it could be a whole new ball game.
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Politically, Fashionably and Aerodynamically Incorrect!
read the agreement
gunshows are over
preban rifle sales are over
high cap magazine sales are over
Child Safety. Within 12 months, handguns will be designed so they cannot be readily operated by a child under 6.
all current handguns become preban
if this becomes the standard gun manufacturer licence then HCI just won
http://www.hud.gov/pressrel/gunagree.html
gunshows are over
preban rifle sales are over
high cap magazine sales are over
Child Safety. Within 12 months, handguns will be designed so they cannot be readily operated by a child under 6.
all current handguns become preban
if this becomes the standard gun manufacturer licence then HCI just won
http://www.hud.gov/pressrel/gunagree.html
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