I Have A Dream That One Day....

Charley.
1. True, but as a proportion of the general population, the percentage seems to have been higher in the 19th.
2. The 19th and early 20th centuries abundant resources were contingent on conquest. Manifest destiny, was paid for by others. Today, our resources might have to be (as it was in the 19th) a labor force big enough to be useful in competition with the EU and China.
3. Th distance factor, true many of the Irish, German's et al did come from faraway. But they retained old cultural loyalties for a very long period, as events ranging from the Dead Rabbits to "Londenderry Aire" attest. If your referring to the Mexicans, true much closer. But the ambiguous border between what is Anglo and Mexican culture, has been blurred for a very long time in the SW. Accordingly, the mixed loyalties may continue. Which may not be a bad thing, the US money sent to Mexico (to relatives), plays a big part in defusing a revolution there. And a revolution in Mexico would be disastrous for the US. (excepting arms dealers).
And anyway, the melting pot had a hell of a time digesting Molly Malone, along with the saurkraut and brats.
 
A revolution in Mexico is exactly what they need.... that Goverment sucks.. ohhh wait!!!.. they already banned guns there so .. well you know that goes.. :rolleyes:
 
According....
1. Pissing in the streets, they do that here. Usually an activity of drunks and loafers, regardless of their origin.
2. The signs, couldn't care less. Can read Spanish.
3. As for as the 'cancer spreading'. First, this prairie could use them. The economy sucks, and usually immigrants are at least smart enough to come where there is work.
4. Summer jobs...let's see now. A man or women trying to possibly support a family...being less valuable than a kid needing extra cash? Ok, the market can still absorb them, especially in the entry level jobs in service companies-who need English speakers. Not wonderful, bit those jobs never have been.
5. And about the medical bill...guess what, the parasitic aspects of the gov't largesse aren't limited to the illegals. Tell me why my taxes should go to support some ()&(*^* corporate farmer, or why I should have to pay for their yearly f-250 'go to town truck'.
6. The illegals shouldn't get free medical care, but they aren't the only ones in this country doing so...
7. When I lived in the barrio, found that much of the crime was being done by a small proportion of locals, namely the gangs. Often the immigrants were as scared of them, or as vexed, as the natives were... That said, going clear back to the dead rabbits, and Tongs, gangs do tend to form in immigrant neighborhoods. Predators prey more on the poor.
8. Understandably those who got here earlier, are vexed by the late arrivals, and there are those who use this for political gain. As Tweed once (allegedly) said...you can always trick one half of the poor into killing the other half..."
And as for relating better...I'm not from these parts. In Colorado, we all got used to the Hispanic/Mexican/Anglo mix a long time ago. It's part of life.
 
A revolution, yes its needed.
But in the last revolution, something like 6 out of 10 Mexicans lost someone, or were wounded.
And with US involvement, and the guv'ment will, why would there be any assumption that any less of a corrupt guv'ment wouldn't result. Not exactly like we have a very good success rate when mucking about in other countries revolutions. Plus, we already have, the US gave the Mexican army a bunch of firepower back in the Marco's days. The banned guns,for a revolution... not that hard to get. Plus there seem to be some stashed here and there...from the last time.
And a sizeable blow-up in Mexico...think its bad now, just wait for a few million more refugees fleeing a violent revolution. And the spread of disease when the nominal Mexican health care system breaks down.
That's why the US guv'ment does little effective interdiction in reference to the iimmigration situation in the SW. They know that Fox's guv'ment is using the US to defuse internal tensions. And the US guv'ment prefers that, to what might occur in a revolution.
And anyway, its not like our current guv'ment in this country...hasn't been playing fast and loose with the truth, corruption isn't unknown, and our freedoms are becoming increasingly less secure. I wonder when we'll be seeking refuge in...Gods help us...Canada...
 
faraway.. you sure your from Colorado?? you sound like a lot of people here in commifornia. The last time i was in Greeley and Pueblo (one year ago) It looked nothing like Los Angeles. Just a bunch of goofy white kids trying to act like there from the west coast. When you live out here then you can judge the situation. 1 in 8 jobs is held by an illegal alien in california. Per the Los Angeles times. out of how many millions.. thats too much.
When your schools have whole classes full of ESL kids.. thats too much..

Its a sad day when an American would support someone breaking the laws of the land. Thats just Un-American to me :mad:

dasmi & Destructo6 sees it.. ohhh thats right .. they live here

NUFF SAID.
 
faraway, I think that's an excellent breakdown of the issue. I'm for considering all costs and benefits together in forming immigration policy, not just focusing on costs alone.
 
Accordingtome,
I started out life in Compton (Rosecrans & Willowbrook), moved to Carson (Del Amo & Wilmington near Shoe Warehouse Store) now I live in a real nice neighborhood in East Highland (North of Redlands). And you know I still have Mexican neighbors! I've come to realise that were all alike we all struggle for a better life for ourselves and our kids, even us Mexicans!!
Sure some of us don't have the horse sence to use a public restroom, but at least we are trying to work. Wich can't be said for some of us who were born here.
I personally know of some slums in San Bernardino, Rialto, Colton, Muscoy and Fontana that make Compton and their 60% Mexican population look nice! And these places are filled with white guys who don't even want to work!!! They have G-friends that are in a hurry pumping out kids to support their habits and their "MAN"! I know of a few who have not held a job in a few years, and dont want to work for any less than $12-$15 an hour. With no damned skills! JUST THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN!! Now whats up with that!

Don't get me wrong or anything like that, I consider my self an AMERICAN first and foremost! and am proud of my Mexican heritage too. But it's not just Mexicans coming across that damned border either, its a whole bunch of other people too! Most Salvadoreans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans and other So. Americans claim to be Mexican when caught by INS, that way they are not deported all the way to their country of origin! And then Mexicans get the blame! You see a hispanic do something stupid and its automaticaly a Mexican!

Guys git off your high horses! We are all Imigrants to this place we call America, if not us our parents, G-parents or something like that.

People migrating to this country will never stop as long as people think they can prosper here!

Remember the Haitians a few years back? Were they any better than Mexicans?
 
Samuel2001 im sorry you are so off the mark on this one. First and formost. Do you think im a racist ? you think i hate Mexicans> ? If thats true... Thats a pretty bold statement to make so please don't imply it.
If you were to read the post you would see that i say (i don't like Illegal aliens) and here in southern california we mostly have a problem with Illegals from Mexico. Flordia has their own problems.. i feel bad for them.

I have no problem with legal immigrants
I have no problem with People who wait their turn to get here
I don't give two ****s about anyone here illegal, black, white, brown, blue, green, I only see americans and non-americans.

I do have a problem with people who break the law. Bleeding this failing system dry. I have friends that have been waiting years for family members to get thought the red tape to get here from the Philippines. 14 years and still waiting for the rest of his family.
This topic has nothing to do with race. I have personally helped 5 people become legal citizens of these fine United States of America. I have tutored kids with their English, I have volunteered my time for numerous groups, even calling out Bingo at Retirement homes on the weekend!! What have you done to make this land a better place??

:mad: I love this country and every true american in it AND if ever called i would Die for any american in it.
Even You! cuzz thats what americans do...
 
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People, it boils down to breaking the law.
If we won't enforce our border laws, how can we enforce any? I don't blame anyone for wanting to come here, hell, my family came from Switzerland in the 20's to find a better life, but you have to do it legally. Illegal imigrants are just that, illegal. If we as the American people decided we don't like the law, we elect people who will change it, we can't just collectively ignore it, because then the system breaks down. How dare we enforce any laws if we don't enforce the ones designed to keep our country secure?
 
Samuel2001 said:
Guys git off your high horses! We are all Imigrants to this place we call America, if not us our parents, G-parents or something like that.
Click to expand...
Well said, Samuel. :) Immigration is a must in any country. The trick is controlling it.

I think that this thread illustrates the perception that some Americans have about those who express their disatisfaction with the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. Some immediately cry, "Racism!" and attempt to belittle your position by labelling you a xenophobe. Even if you just want the laws to be followed and only allow a certain number of people in each year, you can be lumped in with the extremist, "Close the borders!" crowd. Heaven forbid that you advocate repatriation for those poor souls who risked everything to have their first action on American soil be an illegal one.

So, how can we constructively express our outrage at those who "protect" our porous borders? I suggest first taking a look at The Center for Immigration Studies to read up on what's happening now in immigration. Their mission statement:
It is the Center's mission to expand the base of public knowledge and understanding of the need for an immigration policy that gives first concern to the broad national interest. The Center is animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted.
Click to expand...
FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) is another non-racist, immigration limiting group.

Support these groups with your money, write your representative and senators, write the President, attend the the National Drive for Immigration Reform in Washington, DC, April 23-28. There is much we can do other than argue with each other on the Internet. :)
 
Perhaps, but the situation that all are so emotionally bemoaning, has already progressed to the point, it is a fixed condition. So, yes, in Colorado, many who don't like it, have to live with it all. Others may have some ambivalance about the issue, but have to acknowledge a reality. Here in the Northern Prairies, the immigrants only go where the work is, so some towns gain, some lose. And some of these little prairie burgs are so intolerant of outsiders, no one comes and stays. And its one of the reasons their towns are dying.
And yes,I am from Colorado, family history there goes back to the 1860's. And if you managed to go to Pueblo, and not observe the influx of immigrants, you were in the wrong areas. Bessemer and East side, very much affected by this condition. Pueblo west, and university, much less so. Colorado Springs, somewhat less so. Greeley and area, due to the suger beets, and proximity to Monfort meat packing, they've always had a certain amount of illegals.
The law of the land, good luck in enforcing it. The situation has progressed so far as to make those particular laws a dead letter. And anyway, giving the guv'ment more carte blanche to deal with the situation.... Ensures we will go even further along our current path to being a petty police state. "Homeland Security" + national identity cards, and "papers please"...and at what point should we finally do the funeral for the republic?. At this time the illegals are functioning as a type of symbol. They are symptomatic of a government which cannot do the basic duties for which it was established...and so, to bolster the image of its fading credibility, its needs a target group. And by the time the rest of us notice, that its not only them being subjected to the symbolic 'we're doing something', we'll be in no better condition as far as our remaining liberties.
As for being un-American...if that means wrapping up in a flag...and being blinded to the fact that the consequences for regaining control in one area, might ensure more repressive control in another, fine. At that point, neither that flag, or that government have any meaning...so yes, damn "un-American" and proud of it.
 
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Fara
Slavery was a reality at one time supported by 95% of the people too.. but it does not mean it can not change.
Gun control in 1920, 1930, 1940, they would never even think of such a dumb idea.. but times can change.
The U.S.S.R.?? one of the World Superpowers would fall.. who would have thought huh..
Who would have thought thousands of jews would be hunted down and killed without even a thought...
Us landing on the moon...


Times can change, for the worse and for the better if you just believe.

PHP: 
"un-American" and proud of it.
ya.. tell me something i didn't know
:rolleyes:


:cool: Bluesman you have a better way with words than i do.. thank you for your insight but when you see the place you grew up, where you were born being craped on.. you can understand my frustration..
 
Perhaps, but by what means do you intend to remove some 20 million people (or more) who don't meet the legal documentation.
And in the necessary means to do this...such as random roadblocks, raids on residences and business's, legal ID's of a more consistant nature, de facto fortifications at certain border points, and the targeting of American citizens because of appearence or spurious 'suspect profiles"...do you really think civil liberties can remain intact under these pressures?.
The US has absorbed large influxes of immigrants before, but historically once laws, and judicial and executive regulations become emplaced, these tend to remain for a very long period of time.
And actually the implication of "un-Americanism" derived from the statement that breaking the 'law of the land' was such. First, laws which do not work, but remain in force are indicative of an unresponsive government. And second, if the extended consequences of those laws are such, that other liberties will be dismantled, then yes these should be disobeyed. The anti-slavery/civil rights movement to which you alluded, had to do just that, to ensure that those wrongs were righted. By the same standard that is being advocated, therefore...Frederick Douglas, WEB Dubois, King, and thousands of others, were also 'Un-American". So I do stand by my statement that to be blinded to the consequences of any law, and to follow laws without question, is more contemptible than the overt breaking of these same laws. And if complete obedience to law, disregarding the unintended and repressive consequences of certain laws, is a necessary condition to being considered a 'true American', I am proud not to be considered so. Better that than to be complicit in the dismantling of liberty for others, even if they might be a convenient population to despise.
 
Well, just think; where are simply one of several provinces of the Pan American state none of this will be frontpage news anymore. We'll all be able to work hand in hand with each other on the big plantation together ;)
 
Perhaps, or the light of the incredible power of corporate entities...national autonomy (which includes immigration policy) is probably a moot issue. In this case, both the immigrants and natives, find that, they are caught in an economic situation, from which higher economic powers benefit.
So all the fighting and sparring over the symbols, or labels are little more than empty air.
The core reality, is that extra-governmental corporate entities benefit from the situation, to the detriment of both native and immigrant. And their power is such, that all the squabbling over this...won't even move a sheet of paper on the executives desk.
I may be a "gun owning commie" (whatever), you might be a "Nativist gun toting relic", but neither have any real influence over the policies and the rationales behind this mess. Reality is that...to the detriment of both native and immigrant...this situation benefits extra-national corporate powers. And so it will continue...bless us all as we gather under the banner...of Ford, GM,Daimler Benz, Halliburton, Exxon, Pemex, Microsoft, Toyota, and etc....
The only real power a national guv'ment can now exert is military or that which is backed by coercion...but only if Microsoft and the other new dieties...permit it. Very different from other periods wherein large commercial interests had sway over government. The East India Company, or The Standard Oil Trust could corrupt and convince, but never fully control. Due to technologies, these new economic entities are freed from the physicality of boundaries, and as such are largely immune to the restraints that older entities had placed on them. If they chose to do so, now they can. For example, when the US went after Microsoft for anti-trust...they held back, as they knew MS operating systems, effectively run thier guv'ment. So, at best that case was a symbolic gesture to ensure the rabble remained quiet. And places like Mexico, might be bound even tighter in that trap.
Welcome to the new world...
 
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