I Don't Think I Buy The "Too Expensive To Make Colt DA Revolvers" Arguement Anymore

For those citing Colt's place as a niche maker, have any of you looked at their actual production numbers as opposed to other competitors in the niche revolver market?

In 2010, Colt produced only 2,086 revolvers while U.S. Firearms, their closest competitor in the niche SA revolver market, produced 12,007.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2010-final-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf

At 2,086 revolvers per year, Colt has basically become a specialty custom gunmaker like Les Baer, Wilson Combat, or Ed Brown with similar production numbers. Successful specialty makers like Baer, Wilson, and Brown are able to remain profitable despite their low production numbers because the specialize in just a few basic gun designs thus simplifying their production. Colt has also chosen to do this by paring their product line down to AR-15's, 1911's, and SAA's.

Adding DA revolvers back to the line would complicate things and drive up costs in several ways. Most, if not all, of the Colt employees who produced and were familiar with Colt DA revolvers have either retired or passed away. This means that not only would new employees have to be trained for a completely new-to-them product, but that there are very few people left to teach them.

Secondly, the machinery necessary to build DA revolvers is most likely long gone. It is doubtful that Colt has kept old, unused machinery sitting around gathering dust and taking up space for 10+ years and, by many accounts I've heard and read, the DA revolver machinery was getting rather long-in-the-tooth when production ceased. This means that Colt would likely have to invest in new machinery which would be extremely expensive.

You see, at this point it would not be a simple matter of firing up the machines and resuming production. At this point, they would basically be starting from scratch all over again. Even if Colt could make such guns profitably, which is arguable, it would still require a very large intial investment that I just don't believe Colt can afford to make right now.
 
micromontenegro said:
I do wonder why. I wonder why a lot.

See, I have worked on Colt's DA revolvers. There's nothing mystical, magical or otherwise requiring superhuman abilities inside them. Just care, patience, and a solid grasp on how the thing works. And regarding parts, most, if not all the internal parts are reproducible with the proper tools and knowhow- nothing out of this word. I fail to see the big deal.

Maybe it is because in my other hobby I repair the quite more complex innards of vintage cameras. Maybe I wasn't spoiled by working on S&Ws (never seen the insides of one of them). But I honestly can't see the DA Colts as something out of the reach of a handyman who is willing to work and learn with patience and common sense.
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You given good example on why it CAN be done but none on why it SHOULD be done. If it takes more time, patience, and work to learn it and do it, then it should cost the gun owner more to have it done. Is there enough of a market willing to pay higher prices to justify someone banking part of their career on it.

There are several things I could learn how to do but I don't have the time to learn them all. I have to choose what provides the most return on enjoyment (hobby) and profit (business)
 
Notice how few gunsmiths even work on Colt DA revolvers anymore? Wonder why?

I do wonder why. I wonder why a lot.

See, I have worked on Colt's DA revolvers. There's nothing mystical, magical or otherwise requiring superhuman abilities inside them. Just care, patience, and a solid grasp on how the thing works. And regarding parts, most, if not all the internal parts are reproducible with the proper tools and knowhow- nothing out of this word. I fail to see the big deal.

Maybe it is because in my other hobby I repair the quite more complex innards of vintage cameras. Maybe I wasn't spoiled by working on S&Ws (never seen the insides of one of them). But I honestly can't see the DA Colts as something out of the reach of a handyman who is willing to work and learn with patience and common sense.
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I learned how to work on Colt DA by reading articles by Skeeter and other gun writers back in the 1970s etc. It isn't rocket surgery. The slow speed gear train on a machanical 35 mm or a between the lens shutter is a lot more complicated.
 
As much as I enjoy shooting my revolvers, the reality is that wheelguns are a shrinking market. And while a Python is a great revolver, I believe the market for an expensive new masterpiece would be small, especially in today's economic climate.
 
So Joe Pike, would you buy one? And what's you cost ceiling? $2500?

It's all about put your money were your mouth is.
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Well, if you read my very first post you will see that I would have no intention of buying a Colt DA revolver if they started making them again. I do honestly believe that there is a market for $2,500 Colt DA revolvers even if I am not part of that market. If people were not willing to put there hard earned money into high end products, there would be no Rolex watches, Bentley automobiles, Leica cameras, etc. Wilson combat sells $3,000+ 1911s all of the time, so, I don't think a $2,500 revolver would be a hard sell for some folks.
 
Well, if you read my very first post you will see that I would have no intention of buying a Colt DA revolver if they started making them again......

.........Wilson combat sells $3,000+ 1911s all of the time, so, I don't think a $2,500 revolver would be a hard sell for some folks.
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Well, I guess I did skim over your OP. Your right, "Some" might" fork out $3000 or even more. Some just might not be enough to justify all the tooling or retooling, after all they are in the business of making money and I doubt it's going to be an old fashion revolver. Most shooters are mostly semi auto people.

So what's your point?
 
Your right, "Some" might" fork out $3000 or even more. Some just might not be enough to justify all the tooling or retooling, after all they are in the business of making money and I doubt it's going to be an old fashion revolver. Most shooters are mostly semi auto people.

So what's your point?
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The point is that Colt isn't making them just because they're expensive to make. Its because of the COMBINATION of expensive to make PLUS inferior quality for the money. If a S&W is $1000 and a Colt DA is $2000, it will not be twice the quality, or even better quality at all. This goes back to something I've always said about a Python, they were never how people "remember" them today or they would not have quit making them.

I don't care what anyone says about how great Colt DAs were, if the crap that people toss out about them was true "best DAs ever made" they obviously would have a market share in the way Rolex and Randall knives do. Their inferior lockwork design coupled with an old manufacturing process(es) made them too expensive to build, and when a S&W for $400 is as good as a $600 Colt, well no one is going to buy the Colt. That's the truth in all of this. In addition, they were never a cut above S&W. Maybe they were before 1853 lol.

I like Colts, and I have a good one or two. "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend" is how I feel about the opinion of older Colt DA revolvers. I think their pre war stuff is incredible, but we also are not talking about their pre war stuff. Heck, even to the 70s their stuff was nice. But a point was reached where their missteps caught up with them, and they couldn't support themselves anymore by even saying "hey, this is a Colt!" because people wanted something better for their money, something that they could get for less from somewhere else.

Colt could do the same. A small but very profitable business for those willing to pay for the legend. They already do that with the SAA, so they must know by now that it works.
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Their legend doesn't come from their DA line as much as their SA revolvers and early autos. So no, introducing an over priced over hyped DA revolver for 2x as much as a Ruger or S&W would not be a seller. Why buy it? The SAA is different since Colt introduced it, and the CAS, and how they're easier to make due to the simpler lockwork than a DA revolver.
 
Why couldn't they at least bring back the Trooper or the Anaconda?
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Well that would be a good idea on one condition: that those revolvers were intended to directly compete with S&W and Ruger. Colt isn't IMO capable of making DA revolvers that are substantially better than whats already out. Keep in mind that they've been out of that DA market for a while, and in that time the competetion improved their processess steadily. Colt would be starting over and unless they could make the anaconda and ask as much as say a Redhawk or S&W 29, its not worth doing.
 
Actually, I was thinking about my previous post and it probably wouldn't be a good idea anyways. Ruger and S&W have the market so dominated that after the initial "wow colt is making DAs again" wore away, they would have to offer a very well designed gun since they are competing with well established DA companies in Ruger and S&W. It probably would be a tough task for them to make something that would make them enough money for them to stay competitive with the established. Not saying its impossible either though. Part of me would like to see them come back, and another part of me says, "but what would it be?" it could end up being a very costly venture and if they were poor quality, it would take down sales of their 1911s and SAAs because people wouldn't really say "well hey, their DA is crappy, but the 1911s and SAAs and what not are awesome!" people would steer away from them as a company at that point. They have something working for them now with their offerings, and the old saying if its not broke then don't fix it applies here.
 
I think Colt is happy with their current place in the market. Most shops have a small selection (if any) of Colts, and that has a way of driving up the prices. They have always seemed to prefer the law enforcement/military contracts as well, and there isn't much of a market for revolvers in either area anymore. I don't see Colt ever moving firearms in the same volume as Ruger/S&W, and that certainly wouldn't help their decision to jump back into making DA revolvers.
 
The Anaconda is more "Smithlike" in that it has no stack in its DA trigger.
It is beautiful, smooth, does not have a goofy lockhole in its side nor any lawyer disclaimers uglying up the barrel. So, yeah, I'd say it could compete with S&W and Ruger no problemo.
 
Winchester_73


You said a mouth full, I read every word you wrote on this OP.

Totally makes perfect sense on top of everything I wrote.

TBS, one other note, I was talking to an old timer at the range with a S&W M52 ($$ .38spl auto) at the time. He told me Colts are great guns, just don't drop it on the ground.

I didn't ask, but I know about Rugers, after falling off a cliff, don't run them over with an M1 tank, but they still might fire.
 
If everyone who's calling for Colt to make revolvers would be satisfied with a revolver that is a simplified, CNC'd, MIM'd lockworked revolver that, at best, would resemble what Armscor is making now, then Colt might reconsider getting back into the business.....

....either that, or have Colt import the Armscor revolvers, polish them a little, and sell them under their brand. That's worked for a number of companies before.
 
MrBorland said:
My guess is that even if they were interested, the machinery & tooling (assuming they still even have it) would need some serious updating to compete in the marketplace. That's some serious capitol investment for a small market. It's likely the same reason we don't see others (Freedom Arms, for instance) making quality DA revos.
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And, in fact, they don't have it (the machinery and tooling). If you should be fortunate enough to be granted a tour of the Colt factory, as I was a couple of years ago, near the entrance there is (or was, when I was there) a HUGE empty space right in the middle of the factory floor -- with people and machines and pallets of raw and finished parts all around this wasteland. "So what's going on here?" I asked. The answer was, "That's where the Pythons used to be made, but when we discontinued that line we cleared out all the machinery. We haven't decided yet what's going to replace it."

In fact, the last time I was there Colt had just brought a couple of new CNC machining centers on-line. It's my understanding that since then they've added a number of additional CNC centers, and those machines are large. It would not surprise me at all if I were to go back and see that the former DA revolver area is now occupied by CNC machining centers for the 1911 and Mustang lines.
 
This is a Good subject - dealing with basic economics. It not only comes down to whether an action may be profitable (building DA revolvers) but also whether that is the best place to spend one's resources. I imagine that Colt management has decided that they can get a better return on their resources from other products - even if their old d.a. revolvers would be profitable. - - I wonder if their SAAs are profitable. I can see where history and public relations might be a factor in producing those guns even if they didnt turn much of a profit for the company. Unfortunately, much of the shooting public has moved away from d.a. revolvers. Except for the small population of big game handgun hunters and J-frames for self defense (and cowboy action s.a. guns) people are semi-auto orientated.
 
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