I couldnt believe this!
- Thread starter Offshootboy
- Start date
I would never point an unloaded weapon at someone, it seems backwards to me. I could see racking the slide and then aiming, but not the other way around, but then I don't keep a loaded shotgun in my house under normal circumstances. Chances are in home defense I would rack the slide on my keltec about a microsecond before I fire.
my buddy and wife had recently moved into their "new" house. one night a drunk walks in thru the unlocked front door while my buddy is watching tv. the drunk is "asked" to leave but refuses. a scuffle ensues and an ambulance has to be called for the intruder. my buddy gets arrested for assault and the drunk is suing for pain and suffering!
only in america.
only in america.
rampage841512
New member
I'm going to do whatever I think will keep me safe and sound. I'm not going to risk my life in order to keep from killing the person. Rule of thumb I follow: If a person is committing a criminal act and is within twenty feet of me with a weapon then that person is a clear and present danger to my life...anywhere outside my home. If the person is in my home I'm going to feel about a hundred times more threatened and vulnerable than I would outside my home because the person is in my sanctuary. We feel safest in our homes. Threaten that place and any homeowner is going to get dangerous, and probably violently so.
Hallucinator
New member
Unfortunately for them, this tempts me to shoot them in the groin. That would definitely immobilize them and perhaps not kill them.
CrazyIvan007
New member
Breaking and entering poses a percieved threat of bodily injury, which grants you the right to do as you see fit to dispatch that threat.
Not really "as you see fit" but rather as any "reasonable person" would see fit. Quite a difference, that is why it important not to get too caught up in what a bunch of internet gun owners think is reasonable since that may well be quite different than what a jury of your peers see as reasonable.
CrazyIvan007
New member
Well, here in Colorado, we are home to the "Make My Day" law. If you encounter a person who has entered your property illegally, unlawfully by breaking and entering, you have the immediate option of "Use of Lethal Force"
You don't need to be concerned about your welfare, property, family, etc...
Complete security and safety in one's home is presumed here in Colorado and shooting a tresspasser in your home is 100% legal.
Now, if you choose not to shoot, that is your perogative and is where I derive my statement "as you see fit."
I may or may not shoot, depending on the situation, but it is always an option when dealing with someone who commits breaking and entering here in Colorado. "Reasonable amount of force" is not even on the table in this type of situation here in Colorado. You can deal with an offender of this level in any manner you wish up to the point of dispatching the threat. Once that threat is diminished, you cannot continue.
Funny story. During my first CCW class, a guy asked: "So if you shoot someone in your home and they are laying there bleeding, do you like...put one in their head to put them out of their mysery?"
God, I was embarassed for the guy...lol.
You don't need to be concerned about your welfare, property, family, etc...
Complete security and safety in one's home is presumed here in Colorado and shooting a tresspasser in your home is 100% legal.
Now, if you choose not to shoot, that is your perogative and is where I derive my statement "as you see fit."
I may or may not shoot, depending on the situation, but it is always an option when dealing with someone who commits breaking and entering here in Colorado. "Reasonable amount of force" is not even on the table in this type of situation here in Colorado. You can deal with an offender of this level in any manner you wish up to the point of dispatching the threat. Once that threat is diminished, you cannot continue.
Funny story. During my first CCW class, a guy asked: "So if you shoot someone in your home and they are laying there bleeding, do you like...put one in their head to put them out of their mysery?"
God, I was embarassed for the guy...lol.
David Armstrong
Moderator
That is not quite correct. Unless the Colorado has been changed the law there are two significant modifiers. You can't just shoot them because they are in your house illegally. You also must have "...reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry" -AND- "when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant."
It is the concern about welfare, property, family, etc. that allow the lethal force, not simple illegal entry.
CrazyIvan007
New member
Colorado Statute 18-1-704.5 Use Of Deadly Force Against an Intruder ("Make My Day Law")
1. The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.
Perhaps this comes down to interpretation of the law, but if someone has entered my home illegally, there is no doubt in my mind that they intend to commit at least theft and not without me intervening and them fighting back comitting assault, which is covered under this statute, and at the most, murder. My interpretation says that either/or will give you the right to use force up to lethal force.
It would be reasonable to believe that if they are willing to break and enter into your home, that they are willing to do most anything while there. Details aside, I believe most would find this reasonable, and a unanimous vote of 12 saying it isn't is highly unlikely.
Again, though, I wouldn't shoot unless absolutely necessary. My first attempt would be to get them to show their hands and lie on the ground or otherwise exit the premisis. Failure to comply would raise reasonable belief that they plan to do me harm.
1. The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.
Perhaps this comes down to interpretation of the law, but if someone has entered my home illegally, there is no doubt in my mind that they intend to commit at least theft and not without me intervening and them fighting back comitting assault, which is covered under this statute, and at the most, murder. My interpretation says that either/or will give you the right to use force up to lethal force.
It would be reasonable to believe that if they are willing to break and enter into your home, that they are willing to do most anything while there. Details aside, I believe most would find this reasonable, and a unanimous vote of 12 saying it isn't is highly unlikely.
Again, though, I wouldn't shoot unless absolutely necessary. My first attempt would be to get them to show their hands and lie on the ground or otherwise exit the premisis. Failure to comply would raise reasonable belief that they plan to do me harm.
David Armstrong
Moderator
It isn't so much of an interpretation issue, you simply stated the facts of the law incorrectly. When the law requires certain elements be present for you to do something you can't say the law allows something without those elements. It is those little details that make all the difference between acting within the law or otherwise.
CrazyIvan007
New member
Yep.
BIGGHOSS,
Not attacking you personally, just the flawed logic and judgement of your argument! How does one become " Qualified" to take anothers life! So anyone that enters your house uninvited would be subject to being shot.
What if it's a drunk neighbor that mistakes his house for yours or a teenage son trying to sneak back into the house.
Be prepared to justify your actions in both the criminal and civil trials. What I object to is how casualy some here take the killing of another.
I am well aware that much of this is only internet bravado from psuedo commando types, however I hope that the majority see self defense as a responsibility of the highest order, with dire consequences if used inappropiately.
Not attacking you personally, just the flawed logic and judgement of your argument! How does one become " Qualified" to take anothers life! So anyone that enters your house uninvited would be subject to being shot.
What if it's a drunk neighbor that mistakes his house for yours or a teenage son trying to sneak back into the house.
Be prepared to justify your actions in both the criminal and civil trials. What I object to is how casualy some here take the killing of another.
I am well aware that much of this is only internet bravado from psuedo commando types, however I hope that the majority see self defense as a responsibility of the highest order, with dire consequences if used inappropiately.
Kreyzhorse
New member
Kentucky has the Castle Doctrine and in my opinion, if you are in my home, you are there to harm me. If I have a chance to issue a verbal command and that person fails to obey it, I feel I have the right to shoot for defense.
avenger-for one I don't have kids. I'm single and live alone, therefore if ANYONE is in my home they aren't suppose to be there. for two I never said I was going to blow him away right off the start. I have no desire to take anyones life but if someone give the inclanation they don't value my life and they don't mind ending it I'm not going to give him much chance to confirm my suspicion.
also when you say "oh how macho and manly of you" thats not directed at the logic thats directed at the person.
but since this is getting off topic it would be best if we just forget about this personal buisness before we get this thread locked
also when you say "oh how macho and manly of you" thats not directed at the logic thats directed at the person.
but since this is getting off topic it would be best if we just forget about this personal buisness before we get this thread locked
Feelings do matter into it, actually. Especially when you convey those feelings to the police (or more intelligently, your lawyer).
There is a huge difference between indifference to the slaying of an intruder then saying, "Yeah. I was in fear for my life. I did what I had to do, right?" and giving your statement as a nearly shattered person by this tragedy, and expressing how all you could do was think of yourself/friends/family laying dead/mangled/raped on the floor of YOUR OWN HOME, and that you had to remove that threat from the situation.
Believe me, come off as the victim, and people will treat you like one. Act like a Rambo, and they'll start nosing around the "details" of the event.
As for "when the threat is neutralized", there really isnt too much to talk about. When that person isnt going to get up again, the threat is neutralized. I busted my brother's nose (with a backhand) trying to GET AWAY from him when he was messing with me years back. We were just kidding around, but I still injured him while retreating.
A perp is still a threat as long as they are mobile. If you need to empty your rounds, so be it. Remember point #1 - emotion wins the case. If you need to just out and clip the guy, remember point #1, and an extra tidbit - A headshot is most commonly pulled off during a struggle for the gun. A struggle. For. The. Gun.
Also keep in mind that any time your whack a guy, there can always be blowback. Civil crap, legal crap, even his friends coming after you. As for the civil battles, I really have no experience with that. The legal issues - you now have two new tips (Tip #1 - Emotion. Tip #2 - Headshot Struggle) to help you in that department.
...As for the last one - You remembered to reload, right?
There is a huge difference between indifference to the slaying of an intruder then saying, "Yeah. I was in fear for my life. I did what I had to do, right?" and giving your statement as a nearly shattered person by this tragedy, and expressing how all you could do was think of yourself/friends/family laying dead/mangled/raped on the floor of YOUR OWN HOME, and that you had to remove that threat from the situation.
Believe me, come off as the victim, and people will treat you like one. Act like a Rambo, and they'll start nosing around the "details" of the event.
As for "when the threat is neutralized", there really isnt too much to talk about. When that person isnt going to get up again, the threat is neutralized. I busted my brother's nose (with a backhand) trying to GET AWAY from him when he was messing with me years back. We were just kidding around, but I still injured him while retreating.
A perp is still a threat as long as they are mobile. If you need to empty your rounds, so be it. Remember point #1 - emotion wins the case. If you need to just out and clip the guy, remember point #1, and an extra tidbit - A headshot is most commonly pulled off during a struggle for the gun. A struggle. For. The. Gun.
Also keep in mind that any time your whack a guy, there can always be blowback. Civil crap, legal crap, even his friends coming after you. As for the civil battles, I really have no experience with that. The legal issues - you now have two new tips (Tip #1 - Emotion. Tip #2 - Headshot Struggle) to help you in that department.
...As for the last one - You remembered to reload, right?