I couldnt believe this!

There exist NO forensics in the world that can determine if he was still threatening you or not from the floor.
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Not to nitpick, but you can't bank on that. I have been able to determine by means of X-rays alone, that the gunshot patient's version of events is not compatible with the trajectory of the projectile. It all depends on whether your 'observed' position of the guy's body and limbs is compatible with the terminal trajectory that they reconstruct (using chemical analysis, autopsy, radiology and physical examination of the weapon and the cartridge components).
There is a lot of risk involved: you've got to have your ducks all in a row or you may be found out.
 
This situation all depends on how you frame your statement to the police. My first statement would be, "The dude broke into my house and I was in fear of my life". Thats it for now. After I got together with my attorney I would make a complete statement that is more detailed. You can add all the detalis like what you thought he was pointing at you and how he continued to point it at you even when down. Its all a matter of what you say because the court or jury will believe you more than they will the criminal. Be careful what you say.
 
FL also has a version of the Castle Doctrine and FL residents are no longer have a "duty to retreat". That being said, as Odd Job and ZeSpectre point out, You had better be very careful as to what you do and what you say.

There have been two, high-profile, shootings of un-armed BG's here in Jacksonville and each received a lot of publicity and a lot of scrutiny from the State's Attorneys Office. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't defend yourself, but I am cautioning you that if the situation is questionable at all the Law could make your life a very expensive heck for a while.
 
NC is sort of schizo on this one still.

If someone is breaking into your house you can use deadly force to prevent entry. Meaning I can shoot them as they are coming through the door, because at that point I don't know if they are armed or what their intentions are I can assume.

Once inside they have to present a threat of serious injury or death before I can use deadly force. If they are carrying my TV in their hands and I shoot them, I would be toast. They are not a realistic threat at that point.
 
Here you can not. Unless you life is in immediate danger you can not shot. When I took my CCW glass the instructor said if someone comes into your house, takes you TV while watching it and starts to leave, you can not shot but you can try to stop them by other means.
 
Vanpool

Had the same conversation in the vanpool I drive home last night... it is easy to say you would shoot someone immediately -- but I think each situation would be different. If some kids broke in and I did not see a gun my first thought is not putting a bullet in them. Obviously we would need to react appropriately to the situation, hope we are properly trained and ready, and do the right thing.

I hope I never have to face this situation -- but am prepared if an armed intruder forces his way in my home.
 
Those who are just wanting to steal, and don't want to hurt anyone, will usually check out the house to see if anyone's home first.
They'll look in the garage to see if there are any cars.
They'll ring the front door bell and knock on the door to see if anyone answers.
They might even knock on the back door too.
And once they have determined that it's very unlikely that anyone is home...then they will break in and loot the place.

But folks who break into a house knowing that there is a very good chance that the family is inside the home are not just interested in looting the place.
They are very dangerous and are not even trying to avoid a confrontation.
They probably have murder and/or rape in mind.


Just my 2 cent's worth.
 
A guy or person breaks into my house with only a bat in hand? Shoot him? No, why would I? I would tell him I am armed and ready to shoot him dead, tell him to drop bat, then turn around and hit the floor face down arms spread above his head and legs spread out. Dial 911 let the cops deal with him. No reason to end a life.

I value life, every life. Wont take it from anyone unless it is the only way out.


You guys scare me.

Years ago my younger brother was drunk, broke down the neighbors door, cops found him eating a bowl of cereal in the kitchen, he thought he was at home and I was playing a prank on him.

Please think before you pull that trigger. It might just be someone you love in the dark coming in thru a window. Until you identify is it really a threat?
 
A guy or person breaks into my house with only a bat in hand? Shoot him? No, why would I? I would tell him I am armed and ready to shoot him dead, tell him to drop bat, then turn around and hit the floor face down arms spread above his head and legs spread out. Dial 911 let the cops deal with him. No reason to end a life.
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Good luck with that tactic.

I value life, every life. Wont take it from anyone unless it is the only way out.
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I think most all of us do also, but that doesn't mean you have to let somebody violate your home.

You guys scare me.
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Good


Years ago my younger brother was drunk, broke down the neighbors door, cops found him eating a bowl of cereal in the kitchen, he thought he was at home and I was playing a prank on him.
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Glad he's not my neighbor. He sounds like a real winner and would have been dealt with appropriately at the time, which probably would have made him realize the error of his ways. BTW knocking my door down is considered threat if I'm inside.


Please think before you pull that trigger. It might just be someone you love in the dark coming in thru a window. Until you identify is it really a threat?
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I don't believe anyone advocated not identifying the threat.....or lack of threat.
 
A guy or person breaks into my house with only a bat in hand? Shoot him? No, why would I? I would tell him I am armed and ready to shoot him dead, tell him to drop bat, then turn around and hit the floor face down arms spread above his head and legs spread out. Dial 911 let the cops deal with him. No reason to end a life.
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Just what do you think a stranger with a ball bat is doing breaking into your home? Trying to find people for a pickup game? He brought the bat as a weapon. A weapon that is quite deadly and that can be used at a short distance. They don't have to even be within a arms length to bash your mellon in. A weapon to use against anyone he finds in the house that tries to stop him from doing what? Do you know he is just looking for a new plasma TV? Maybe he just wants to play ball with a human head. Maybe he liked the way your wife or daughter looks and thinks he's entitied to have them. SHOOT EM! Empty the gun if possible to stop a threatening intruder before he stops you or your family for good!
 
I value life, every life
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.
If a person breaks into another person's home, armed with a baseball bat, he has demonstrated that he has no regard for (1) the law, (2) your life, and (3) his own life.

IMO, our society is better off without such people.

Please think before you pull that trigger. It might just be someone you love in the dark coming in thru a window. Until you identify is it really a threat?
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Maybe your family is different???
But my loved ones don't come thru a window with a baseball bat in hand.
They knock on the front door.
 
break into my house,while my daughter and i are home,with bat,tire tool,knife,gun,bag of tostidos and cheese dip,it really don't matter to me.if you don't knock on the door,i'm shooting and i'm not stopping.we have the castle doctrine in indiana and i intend on using it!nothing good comes through a broken window or busted down door.better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.
 
Years ago my younger brother was drunk, broke down the neighbors door, cops found him eating a bowl of cereal in the kitchen, he thought he was at home and I was playing a prank on him.
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Ok first, I'd like to know, how badly made was your neighbor's door that he could break it down with apparently very little effort?

At my house, we've given thought to physical security. We have made it so it would take a substantial amount of work to break into our house. So much work, that even your drunk brother would have to think twice after 15 minutes of trying to break down our exceptionally heavy, multi-bolted, reinforced front door. As far as I'm concerned, no one who makes the effort to break into our house is up to any good, nor are they there just to steal the TV and be on their merry way.
 
Laws vary greatly from state to state or even county to county.
There is no one right answer, or all around sound advise.

If you do not know the exact laws of your area or the beliefs of your local DA then err on the side of caution.
Make it (by a reasonable person) an imminent serious bodliy injury or imminent deadly threat before you pull the trigger.

I spent two hours with a local criminal defense attorney asking every question I could think of. Even if you are completely within your rights to act. Meeting the criteria of imminent serious bodily injury or imminent deadly threat will make your court time shorter or not see court time at all.

Enters the house with a bat or any other potential weapon.
Weighs 300lbs and clenched fists while you are 150lb with asthma.

Should be making forward progression towards you.

Ahem.....I happen to ask if they are running out of the house towards the open door wtih my stereo in hand and in my attempt to remove myself from the threat we cross paths and I am shoved or hit I can protect myself.
 
OddJob said:
Not to nitpick, but you can't bank on that. I have been able to determine by means of X-rays alone, that the gunshot patient's version of events is not compatible with the trajectory of the projectile. It all depends on whether your 'observed' position of the guy's body and limbs is compatible with the terminal trajectory that they reconstruct (using chemical analysis, autopsy, radiology and physical examination of the weapon and the cartridge components).
There is a lot of risk involved: you've got to have your ducks all in a row or you may be found out.
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EXACTLY!!! The amount of information able to be put together after the fact, especially with a dead body to poke around within, is incredible. A body dead bu gunshot is a picture in time. Every particle of damaged tissue and bone tell a story. Was the hand pronated or supinated? Was the arm lifted or lowerred? What was the victim's posture? All of this can be put together depending on the path that bullet took. As soon as ONE PART of your story does not mesh with the forensic evidence EVERY PART of your story is suspect. Suddenly you are on the defensive and are no longer looked at as a victim of the crime but possibly as a participant.

Think long and hard about that before you subscribe to the "dead men tell no tales" school of thought. A dead criminal with strong forensic evidence against you is a better "witness" than a living criminal with no forensic evidence but a made up story and a long rap sheet.
 
Another legal point in self defense shootings is how the proceedings work.
Claiming self defense is an ‘affirmative’ defense.
You acknowledge taking the shot, but point to mitigating circumstances that make it non-criminal (justifiable and excusable are two common legal categories for this).
Even though you are defending yourself, you will be required to prove your actions fell within the law.
If you sit back and say nothing (common in other types of criminal trials) you have admitted to a murder and WILL be convicted.
While this may seem to go against the concept of ‘innocent unless proven guilty’ and that the state must prove the case against you, that is not how it works in most places with self defense shootings.
 
The amount of information able to be put together after the fact, especially with a dead body to poke around within, is incredible. A body dead bu gunshot is a picture in time. Every particle of damaged tissue and bone tell a story. Was the hand pronated or supinated? Was the arm lifted or lowerred? What was the victim's posture? All of this can be put together depending on the path that bullet took. As soon as ONE PART of your story does not mesh with the forensic evidence EVERY PART of your story is suspect. Suddenly you are on the defensive and are no longer looked at as a victim of the crime but possibly as a participant.
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You watch too much CSI.
I have had the unfortunate duty to be on two jurys for two different murder trials, and I can tell you that about 1/2 of forensics is pure guesswork and most cannot say for certain how a shooting transpired beyond the very basics.

Even though you are defending yourself, you will be required to prove your actions fell within the law.
If you sit back and say nothing (common in other types of criminal trials) you have admitted to a murder and WILL be convicted.
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All the more reason to only have one side of the story in court...yours!
And get a good attorney.

Three great truisms of self defence:

1) It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

2) In a court of law, one version of the facts is better than two versions.

3) Using a "public defendent" as your attorney will probably put you behind bars whether you're innocent or not.
 
Deadly Force

In North Carolina the law is, to me, kind of vaguely written. It states that "deadly force can be used when imminent death, great bodily harm and/or sexual assualt is a possibility. Then, it goes on and lists several "ifs" such as the attacker was not the instigator, or a bunch of things such as that. By the time I determined all of the "ifs" I would be raped, had great bodily harm commited against me, and probably killed. Since the beginning of this statute says deadly force CAN be used I stop reading there and if and when the time ever comes I'm just blasting him/her and taking my chances in court. This crap about shooting them in the spine or the hand and all that is way too far out there. Who knows where you'll hit when you pull the trigger in that kind of situation so the best thing for me is just to make sure I'm hitting the chest or head and let my weapon do the rest. When I was in the military, 40 years ago, killing someone who was trying to hurt/kill me did not take any thinking at all. Just point and shoot.
 
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